Barracuda News & Discussion VII

[jarr92]

Safe to say nobody in tonight's lineup has a NHL future.

I know you're trolling but Cagnoni and Cardwell have a decent shot at an NHL future, even as a #6-7 dman for Cagnoni or bottom 6er for Cardwell. I think you're underrating Cagnoni a bit. It's not easy for a small rookie dman to put up his current numbers in the AHL. He's only 3 points off the league lead for dman in the AHL in his 19-20 year old season, while playing decent defensively. I'd imagine he's done just about everything GMMG has asked of him.

 

[Hodge]

I know you're trolling but Cagnoni and Cardwell have a decent shot at an NHL future, even as a #6-7 dman for Cagnoni or bottom 6er for Cardwell. I think you're underrating Cagnoni a bit. It's not easy for a small rookie dman to put up his current numbers in the AHL. He's only 3 points off the league lead for dman in the AHL in his 19-20 year old season, while playing decent defensively. I'd imagine he's done just about everything GMMG has asked of him.

I'm not trolling. The vast majority of his points have been scored on the power play. I don't really care how he's playing defensively in the AHL because his size and speed disadvantages will not be exploited by AHL forwards the way they will be in the NHL.

Maybe Cardwell can carve out a career as a 4th liner but ideally you'd like a bigger forward in that role.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I'm not trolling. The vast majority of his points have been scored on the power play. I don't really care how he's playing defensively in the AHL because his size and speed disadvantages will not be exploited by AHL forwards the way they will be in the NHL.

Isn't that the case for most offensive defenseman? Dan Boyle made it work...

 

[gaucholoco3]

Isn't that the case for most offensive defenseman? Dan Boyle made it work...

Dan Boyle is 5’11”. I keep going back to the fact that there are only 3 D in the league listed at 5’9. I’m not saying an inch matters that much but players listed at 5’9” are likely shorter. Cagnoni has incredibly long odds to carve out an NHL career. It is encouraging what he has done so far but there is a reason many players are great in the AHL and can’t make it in the NHL. I hope he makes it but I’m not penciling him in a Sharks lineup until he demonstrates he can defend in the NHL.

 

[Hodge]

Isn't that the case for most offensive defenseman? Dan Boyle made it work...

For every Dan Boyle there are ten Ty Smiths, Adam Boqvists, Ryan Merkleys, Erik Brannstroms, etc. And as @gaucholoco3 pointed out all of these guys are bigger than Cagnoni.

 

[jarr92]

For every Dan Boyle there are ten Ty Smiths, Adam Boqvists, Ryan Merkleys, Erik Brannstroms, etc. And as @gaucholoco3 pointed out all of these guys are bigger than Cagnoni.

Well Merkley was clearly terrible, but I'd say the rest of those guys had/have NHL careers. Not arguing that he will be great.

 

[one2gamble]

Dan Boyle is 5’11”

in heels

 

[OrrNumber4]

in heels

Was going to say! Though perhaps Cagnoni's size is also exaggerated...

 

[Hodge]

Well Merkley was clearly terrible, but I'd say the rest of those guys had/have NHL careers. Not arguing that he will be great.

They're all terrible. This player type just isn't valuable in today's game.

 

[jarr92]

They're all terrible. This player type just isn't valuable in today's game.

I'm not arguing their value. Simply that almost any 19-20 year old dman nearing leading the AHL in scoring will probably get a couple chances in the NHL.

 

[HockeyScout1425]

Cagnoni is legit on the PP which means he will get a chance. I also think he will get roasted by NHL forwards, so it wont be a very long chance, but still, not bad for a 4th round pick. Actually, what they should be doing, is trying to use him as a sweetener in a deal w/ an analytically-inclined club who would value him like that idiot Byron Bader does. "Cagnoni is a future superstar d-man!" hahahaha. Maybe Dubas in Pitt?

Bystedt is still the most disappointing player tbh. I heard rumblings about him potentially being a 2C down the road at one point but there's no way hes anything more than an NHL 4C.

This team is going nowhere, and also has terrible coaching. So you may as well call Cardwell up and have him take Kunin's spot after you trade him for a pack of shoelaces and bubble gum.

 

[Roasted Nuts]

Yeah, Bysted is quite disappointing given his first round pedigree and initial projection. Makes me think that the sharks should have traded him instead of Edstrom to Nashville in the Askarov trade since both were seen as roughly the same in terms of talent.

 

[Hodge]

Yeah, Bysted is quite disappointing given his first round pedigree and initial projection. Makes me think that the sharks should have traded him instead of Edstrom to Nashville in the Askarov trade since both were seen as roughly the same in terms of talent.

Edstrom is having basically the same season in the SHL that Bystedt did last year. I think he'll be better than Bystedt but not by much.

 

[bigsjfan]

I know Luca is listed at 5'9" but he is stalky at 180 lbs, which is in the same weight range as the typical 5'11" player. He also just turned 20 so adding strength and weight should be expected. If he can get to 190 lbs I believe he has a good chance at an NHL career

 

[Juxtaposer]

People are seriously getting lost in the weeds when it comes to Cagnoni.

He's done everything he's needed to do to legitimize himself as a real NHL prospect despite his size: become a top-pairing AHL defenseman as a barely 20 year old. He may not work out, his lack of physical tools may ultimately be insurmountable. But he is legitimately good in the AHL as a 20 year old, and that's very impressive.

If he works out, great! If he doesn't, he was a fourth round longshot to begin with. He doesn't have real trade value until he proves he can play in the NHL, because that's how NHL GMs look at 5'9" players. You only trade him if he is a tipping point on getting a potential core piece like Askarov, and I don't see that happening. Just let him be and be pleasantly surprised if he succeeds instead of just adding to the "small boy bad, zero chance of success" echo chamber. Luca has undoubtedly heard that his whole life. Even if it's probably true, it's boring and lazy.

 

[Jargon]

People are seriously getting lost in the weeds when it comes to Cagnoni.

He's done everything he's needed to do to legitimize himself as a real NHL prospect despite his size: become a top-pairing AHL defenseman as a barely 20 year old. He may not work out, his lack of physical tools may ultimately be insurmountable. But he is legitimately good in the AHL as a 20 year old, and that's very impressive.

If he works out, great! If he doesn't, he was a fourth round longshot to begin with. He doesn't have real trade value until he proves he can play in the NHL, because that's how NHL GMs look at 5'9" players. You only trade him if he is a tipping point on getting a potential core piece like Askarov, and I don't see that happening. Just let him be and be pleasantly surprised if he succeeds instead of just adding to the "small boy bad, zero chance of success" echo chamber. Luca has undoubtedly heard that his whole life. Even if it's probably true, it's boring and lazy.

Clapclapclap

 

[Hodge]

People are seriously getting lost in the weeds when it comes to Cagnoni.

He's done everything he's needed to do to legitimize himself as a real NHL prospect despite his size: become a top-pairing AHL defenseman as a barely 20 year old. He may not work out, his lack of physical tools may ultimately be insurmountable. But he is legitimately good in the AHL as a 20 year old, and that's very impressive.

If he works out, great! If he doesn't, he was a fourth round longshot to begin with. He doesn't have real trade value until he proves he can play in the NHL, because that's how NHL GMs look at 5'9" players. You only trade him if he is a tipping point on getting a potential core piece like Askarov, and I don't see that happening. Just let him be and be pleasantly surprised if he succeeds instead of just adding to the "small boy bad, zero chance of success" echo chamber. Luca has undoubtedly heard that his whole life. Even if it's probably true, it's boring and lazy.

Maybe we have different definitions of what constitutes a "real NHL prospect" but I don't see how you can call someone that while also admitting he has no trade value.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Maybe we have different definitions of what constitutes a "real NHL prospect" but I don't see how you can call someone that while also admitting he has no trade value.

"Real NHL prospect" to me is "guy who has NHL talent and could become a useful NHLer". It almost completely overlaps with "valuable guys outside the NHL", with the exception of small guys. I just don't think NHL GMs value a small guy until he's proven in the NHL.

 

[Hobocop]

Had a listen on one of the pregames because I was curious about reasoning behind some of the lines this past weekend while I was away:

In addition to Askarov, sounds like Bystedt, Vincent and Houle have all been dealing with injury. Bystedt got hurt in practice on Friday.

 

[jarr92]

I know he's taller so it's not a great comparison, but in a world where mf'n Taylor Fedun had 130 NHL games I'm pretty sure Cagnoni is going to get some decent chances in the NHL.

 

[Jargon]

My prediction is going to be that Cagnoni ends up a very solid middle-pairing defenseman who puts up great numbers on the power play and is pretty good defensively. I believe many of us will be big fans and when he goes on multiple game runs of great play, putting up lots of points, we will applaud him and Hodge will be silent, but once he has a bad game or even a single play, Hodge will immediately show up to criticize him. So it is foretold.

 

[Patty Ice]

Posted this in the Prospects thread but since he is the latest topic of discussion

 

[hohosaregood]

Luca typically wouldn't be in the AHL as a D+2 and he's doing really well for being on an accelerated path.