Barkov as Florida's Captain

[KW]

interesting point. ok, now i'm going to amend my previous answer.

i just said the PP was the only area where bruno was vulnerable. in an earlier post i said he didn't push the right levers (but not that this was a decisive factor...) i think it's really the combination of the two.

it is possible that a real guru like phil jackson, et al, may have been able to figure out a way to get barky going.

and we absolutely needed one of barkow or huberdeau to take up the mantle and carry the team the way kucherov carried the lightning. they have it in them i know. will be interesting to see how zito handles this.

Looks like they’ve forgotten what Jagr taught them.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

marginally more.

and i'm not saying that cooper didn't win that margin, mind you; i am simply saying the players went out there with the teammates they have around them, trying to play the style of play that zito and Q embraced and built around and they apparently couldn't square that mentality with dramatic turn in TB's game as compared to last year.

the only area i think bruno is vulnerable is in the handling of the PP in the postseason. i have been here defending his more conservative approach but in the end, it's clear he needed to act sooner. he should've shaken up the PP units in the caps series.

Motivation and emotional management are parts of the coach's job, too.

I used to be one of those guys who thought 'man, these are grown ass millionaires, do they really need some dumbass playing mind games with them to perform?' And then I got older and worked in more places, and with more responsibilities; I even had the misfortune of being exposed to academic management theory. And then I remembered all the guys I ever played competitive sports with over the years.

Yeah, they do need some dumbass playing mind games with them.

The difference between the 2021 Tampa series and the 2022 Tampa series is self-evident. The Panthers -- missing Ekblad -- lost in 2021 to a better team, but they made a good fight out of it. The coach was absolutely better at manipulating the players in such a way as to get more out of them.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

Title says it all. Does this team come out the way it does and play the way it does because Barkov does not seem to show the passion or urgency? Do we need a new leader? He just seems way to passive. We have seen multi seasons with slow starts or team isn't ready to play. Even under Q it seemed like they just were never ready to play.

I’d just like to point out that title does not say it all.

 

[Felidae]

To me, the most disappointing aspect of Barkov this postseason is how easily he was knocked off the puck. For a player who's known for being one of the best puck protectors in the league, we rarely saw him maintain possession for an extended amount of time on the boards creating offense.

It seemed like all it took was some physical comtact or simple stick work from an opposing dman to strip him off the puck when he was coming from the neutral zone into the ozone.

Of course that happens to every player, but it wouldn't be an issue if he created offense more often than not. Which wasn't the case in most games.

 

[austropanther]

The best way I can describe it is, you know those people that simply have 1 speed no matter the situation?…well that’s basically the vibe that Barkov gives. He just simply doesn’t have that personality or gene or whatever you wanna call it to ramp up intensity or urgency. He is simply bland , always has been. Incredible skill and a great regular season player. But disappointing in the off-season. This year from his apologizing to that caps defender for hitting with a puck to his 1 assist this series vs Tampa and complete lack of emotion and urgency. It’s just deflating.

I hope that all it takes is a coach to help him out with this part of his game or experience will change him with leadership qualities aka the Ovechkin comparisons.. but that might be wishful thinking…Ovechkin was/is lighting in a bottle compared to Barkov in every sense of the word since his rookie year. Barkov might honestly need to simply get stripped and be a follower.

Him being the captain or not is not the issue. One of the best captains ever was never very vocal - Niklas Lidström. The difference is that he performed at the top of his game in EVERY game - POs or regular season -, best example you can be for your teammates.
There are other players that can take up the part of amping up your team. It is not necessarely the captain's responsibility.

I agree with you that Barky did not find this extra gear that is needed to win it all. Wasn't he hurt 2 years ago blocking a shot with his hand? Since then I find him reluctant to sacrifice his body for the puck. But he has to do it if he really wants to win a SC - look what guys like Kucherov and Stamkos do out there...
Same goes with Huby. Last year he was a lot meaner in the corners and on the boards whereas today, he looked so mediocre in his boardwork and intensity.

I am still a big Barky fan. And I think he can still be our captain.

 

[avenger]

To me, the most disappointing aspect of Barkov this postseason is how easily he was knocked off the puck. For a player who's known for being one of the best puck protectors in the league, we rarely saw him maintain possession for an extended amount of time on the boards creating offense.

It seemed like all it took was some physical comtact or simple stick work from an opposing dman to strip him off the puck when he was coming from the neutral zone into the ozone.

Of course that happens to every player, but it wouldn't be an issue if he created offense more often than not. Which wasn't the case in most games.

I agree! Barky needs to understand that he is needed for the team in the offensive game...it's time to change the mentality a bit...when you go on the ice to win...or you go out to not lose! I think he should have already acquired this experience and made the right changes in mentality...and of course, that's the job of a coach!!! a good coach can help change him for the better for the team…

 

[FrolikFan67]

I read today that when torts first came into tampa he stripped lecavalier of the C and gave it to andreychuck before they eventually went on to win their first cup? Lecavalier eventually got it back later on but something similar would be best for Barkov, the only issue is we don’t have any big time, yet still impactful, veteran on the team. Dave was a hall of famer, don’t exactly have a comparable. Giroux perhaps, if he re-signs by some miracle

 

[Hoffer75]

I hope that all it takes is a coach to help him out with this part of his game or experience will change him with leadership qualities aka the Ovechkin comparisons.. but that might be wishful thinking…Ovechkin was/is lighting in a bottle compared to Barkov in every sense of the word since his rookie year. Barkov might honestly need to simply get stripped and be a follower.

You and some others seem to think that it's captains job to get all the players to play in certain way. It kinda is in a small way, because captain leads by an example, but it's coaches job to say how they should play, and what's the example captain needs to show. Is it intensity and urgency? Or to play responsibly in both directions and avoid mistakes? Did Barkov show a good example for the others? I think he did. His line created much more opportunities to score than any other line, while giving away very few chances to the opponent. I understand that it would've been ideal example, if he could've picked the team on his back and put on a Barkov show, like he did many times in the regular season, but with playoffs it's irresponsible for a center to overcommit on attacks - especially if there isn't a good defending winger on your side. Therefore it's easier for someone like Kucherov to step up and make those necesserary points.

Which leads me to this... I think comparing Ovechkin to Barkov is like comparing cats to dogs. Ovechkin is forward, Barkov is center. It's much easier for Ovechkin to play with high intensity and run around the rink giving away big hits, than with Barkov who needs to glue the line together and worry about the defence. And would we have won Washington, if we would've tried to play their playing style? You'd be more on the nose comparing Barkov to Bergeron, keeping in mind that Boston also has a different playing style than we do. Recardless to that, it's not Bergeron that leads the team with tackles, other guys do.

All in all, I think we fell mostly on our powerplay. We couldn't make it creative enough. And that's purely a tactical element. Coach makes the strategies and decides who plays where. Our powerplay was probably studied pretty well by the opponent and we couldn't mix it up.

 

[avenger]

Him being the captain or not is not the issue. One of the best captains ever was never very vocal - Niklas Lidström. The difference is that he performed at the top of his game in EVERY game - POs or regular season -, best example you can be for your teammates.
There are other players that can take up the part of amping up your team. It is not necessarely the captain's responsibility.

I agree with you that Barky did not find this extra gear that is needed to win it all. Wasn't he hurt 2 years ago blocking a shot with his hand? Since then I find him reluctant to sacrifice his body for the puck. But he has to do it if he really wants to win a SC - look what guys like Kucherov and Stamkos do out there...
Same goes with Huby. Last year he was a lot meaner in the corners and on the boards whereas today, he looked so mediocre in his boardwork and intensity.

I am still a big Barky fan. And I think he can still be our captain.

I don’t think Barky is afraid… it’s more like an injury in the playoffs against Tampa a year ago… it didn’t let him help the team 100%, but even then he played well… and the desire to be 100% useful in the team now apparently had several moments… but still I think more about the whole game of the team. We were poorly prepared, we did not come up with anything in powerplay,
…we didn’t make it impossible for Kucherov, Stemkos, Hedman to play…we didn’t find how and where to score goals for Vasilevskiy…we didn’t come up with the right tactics against Tampa, where our players are (Barky, Hubi, etc…)…we didn’t react well to changes in during the game, we had a terrible rhythm of changes! (when we just threw the puck to the opponent and changed ... our fresh lines started with the game in defense, and we are almost always offensively tired)
Tampa did all this and their coaching staff worked 24/7 and the whole year or even more ... I'm sure if we (I mean we are our coaches) did at least 50% of this work, then now we would say it to our guys like heroes!

 

[GermanPanther]

Pretty sure the captain of the other team put up with this narrative for 10 years before he shut the haters up. OV as well. Took him what, 13 years to get over the hump?

Barkov will be fine.

With that said, definitely concerning performances from our core this series. Assuming they aren't hurt.

I hope you dont compare a Player who was Physical with his Game in the beginning, as a Generation Player.
With Barkov who is, nice comparing, more like the Sedin Twins. Technical on a Level hard to Top, but the usual north european calm Person.



I think what comes here in everyone one Minds. And that is something really to talk about, that non of our Leader played with this Emotion or energy. I think Hornqvist was the only one who really lived in my opinion a PO Game.
Even Ovi and other speaking more on the Bench with emotion and Power other once up.

If that is a KeyPoint thats missing for a "C", i dont expect him ever to reach this Point. Is out of his Human been.

 

[PSLguy]

marginally more.

and i'm not saying that cooper didn't win that margin, mind you; i am simply saying the players went out there with the teammates they have around them, trying to play the style of play that zito and Q embraced and built around and they apparently couldn't square that mentality with dramatic turn in TB's game as compared to last year.

the only area i think bruno is vulnerable is in the handling of the PP in the postseason. i have been here defending his more conservative approach but in the end, it's clear he needed to act sooner. he should've shaken up the PP units in the caps series.

It amazes me that both Washington and Tampa were able to change their style of play to shutdown the Panthers after embracing a different style all season, all while missing a top player each.

However, we cannot expect the Panthers to do the same.

Perhaps the coaches of the Capitols and Bolts were able to garner the attention of their players and coach them to a new style? Why didn't our coaches do that? If the did and the players refused to change then that is a completely different story.

 

[zeroG]

It amazes me that both Washington and Tampa were able to change their style of play to shutdown the Panthers after embracing a different style all season, all while missing a top player each.

However, we cannot expect the Panthers to do the same.

Perhaps the coaches of the Capitols and Bolts were able to garner the attention of their players and coach them to a new style? Why didn't our coaches do that? If the did and the players refused to change then that is a completely different story.

they really didn't, though.

they went to a more conservative NZ set up *after* they established a lead. which happens every night. some teams can do it really well when it counts and the lightning are one of them.

the panthers, though, started doing what you have to do to generate chances in that situation, which is get pucks past the trap and retrieve them. they just were not successful enough. part of that is, as reinhart said, because they got "disconnected" and didn't have players with speed coming through the NZ to retrieve. part of it is placement of the pucks. part of it is winning battles.

but the important thing to remember is that all the games were close, with the panthers usually trailing by goal in the 2nd. if we had picked up a couple of PP goals in those games, we could've established a lead in the second period and forced the lightning to attack. that would've been a different series.

instead, we were chasing every game from the 2nd on and the lightning were able to sit back and counter or just dump and change.

 

[zeroG]

Motivation and emotional management are parts of the coach's job, too.

I used to be one of those guys who thought 'man, these are grown ass millionaires, do they really need some dumbass playing mind games with them to perform?' And then I got older and worked in more places, and with more responsibilities; I even had the misfortune of being exposed to academic management theory. And then I remembered all the guys I ever played competitive sports with over the years.

Yeah, they do need some dumbass playing mind games with them.

The difference between the 2021 Tampa series and the 2022 Tampa series is self-evident. The Panthers -- missing Ekblad -- lost in 2021 to a better team, but they made a good fight out of it. The coach was absolutely better at manipulating the players in such a way as to get more out of them.

i mentioned this notion in another post last night. yes - it's *possible* that another coach could've gotten under those guys skin and pulled a better performance from them.

but that, imo, is not the difference between last year and this year.

this year's lightning wasn't as good and deep as last year's club and they knew it. they couldn't trade chances with us. they had to play smarter and tougher and they're capable of it.

on our side, i think the confidence of our key guys was down after a struggle, particularly on the PP, against the caps. it just permeated their games. confidence is a hard thing to instill, though.

my final criticism of bruno (at this point at least) is that he should've made some major changes on the PP in the caps series. our guys play well when they're scoring, having fun and feeling good about themselves. if the entire game's a struggle AND you can't knock one in on the PP, you get frustrated and that spills over. get an easy one on the PP and you start relaxing a bit. we just never got there this series (or post-season, really - without verhaeghe in the caps series, we're dead).

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

Totally fair. I don't mean to slag on Bruno at all, I just think he was totally out of his depth in this position and the Panthers need an experienced coach. I honestly think that will solve a LOT of issues we saw in the postseason. But disclaimer, I am one of those guys who thinks the coach is just as important as the talent.

I just want to see them win.

 

[scholl]

Florida Panthers captain Aleksander Barkov has been awarded for his civilian merits Knight of the Order of the Lion of Finland by the Grand Master of the Order, President of the Republic Alexander Stubb.

 

[Sticksandsun]

Barkov is a great regular season player. High hockey IQ, and a great player overall. Some of the things he does on the ice is amazing. But he's too much of a shrinking violet in the playoffs. He is this generations Sedin twin. We won't win the Stanley Cup with him as our main piece.

Banned time? @Chaos2k7 @Egblad

 

[ShootIt]

I'd like to think Zito read post #14 and decided to trade him Calgary.
You're all welcome.

 

[I am not exposed]

Banned time? @Chaos2k7 @Egblad

We needed the Tkachuk trade to get him over the edge

Glad I was wrong as he was our MVP last playoffs imo. It did take him a while to have a good playoffs.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

I was right about the importance of coaching, and wrong about Paul Maurice being the right guy.

I'll take .500, I guess.

 

[batting1k]

I was right about the importance of coaching, and wrong about Paul Maurice being the right guy.

I'll take .500, I guess.

Better than vendetta. He was wrong about everything.

 

[KW]

Better than vendetta. He was wrong about everything.

True

 

[Dread Clawz]

We needed the Tkachuk trade to get him over the edge

Glad I was wrong as he was our MVP last playoffs imo. It did take him a while to have a good playoffs.

It took Sakic, Ovi, Yzerman awhile to figure it out too.

 

[Felidae]

Barkov is the captain only in the sense that he has the letter on his back...

Tkachad joins and we have our 2 best postseason runs in franchise history. Coincidence? I think not.

Aleksander will always and forever be known as Beta Barkov.

 

[jonu]

Better than vendetta. He was wrong about everything.

Watch out, I got a mute for calling out vendetta

 

[CatscratchFever]

Barkov is the captain only in the sense that he has the letter on his back...

Tkachad joins and we have our 2 best postseason runs in franchise history. Coincidence? I think not.

Aleksander will always and forever be known as Beta Barkov.

The Beta thing is dumb. Barkov is the most talented player and most valuable to this teams success overall. Watching the NHL Faceoff series, its obvious Tkachuk is the public face and heart of this franchise. You can have a debate on whether you prefer a vocal leader or not, but there is no doubt Barkov is the man.