Olympics: Backstrom out final game for banned substance in allergy meds II (warning post 604)
- Thread starter YWGinYYZ
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In my favor? I have no dogs in this race. I just sympathize for the guy that took a freaking decongestant and missed out on a gold medal game. Doing a google for the benefits, I saw this conclusion:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16531903
Backstrom is 95kg, so if I am understanding all of this right, the level for him to receive the benefit for it to be performance enhancing is 237.5mg and he tested at 190mg? 142.5mg for documented 'no benefit' (according to the study). Assuming I have that all correct with how the dosing is measured, it seems like this needs a review.
to me the whole backstrom thing feels like one of the those things that happen when a high school team loses the championship game but they find out the winning teams has worn the wrong socks (or something on the lines), protests and wins and the winning team forfeits.
Canadian Finn
Oskee Wee Wee
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=683123
—Jari Kurri, the respected 17-year veteran right winger of the Colorado Avalanche, says some of the dirty play in recent years might be a result of players having had something more than the usual competitive juices flowing through their systems. He suggests a link between the use of pseudoephedrine and the increasing lack of respect NHL players have shown each other in this decade. "You take it, you get hyped up," says Kurri, who also says that he took Sudafed once before a game last season when he was with the Anaheim Mighty Ducks. "I don't know if the stickwork, the dirty hits, are because of that, but I think it's something the league should look into."
—Jari Kurri, the respected 17-year veteran right winger of the Colorado Avalanche, says some of the dirty play in recent years might be a result of players having had something more than the usual competitive juices flowing through their systems. He suggests a link between the use of pseudoephedrine and the increasing lack of respect NHL players have shown each other in this decade. "You take it, you get hyped up," says Kurri, who also says that he took Sudafed once before a game last season when he was with the Anaheim Mighty Ducks. "I don't know if the stickwork, the dirty hits, are because of that, but I think it's something the league should look into."
Classicnamesup
MVP Backhand Slapper
If it truly was just an alergy decongestant, I feel bad For Backstrom. Seems like an honest competitor and he was forced to miss out on the most important game so far of his life. Also he won't get a medal?
Hope there are no repercussions to his career, always liked Backstrom
Hope there are no repercussions to his career, always liked Backstrom
Dissapointing that you can destroy a guys dreams for what amounts to forgetting to signal on a lane change
So if he put down on a piece of paper that he was taking this drug it's just a warning
Where does common sense factor in?
So if he put down on a piece of paper that he was taking this drug it's just a warning
Where does common sense factor in?
Lady Scarlet
Registered User
Need to back up and read the previous thread and you'll find out what those measurements really are....the test is NOT done in milligrams
Several posters have already broken it all down in a fairly straight forward and concise manner. See dmalice's post below.
Your post doesn't change the fact that the acceptable number is 150 and Backstrom tested out at 190.
Last edited:
- Feb 23, 2014
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Finnish ice-hockey fan would actually be among the biggest losers if a doping scandal and its aftermaths were to mess up the Swedish ice-hockey scene like one did the Finnish cross-country skiing scene. No one should hope for that, these are too fun games as they are.
I posted this in the other thread
But people seem to have missed it. I'm not sure how this relates to URINE samples, but here are my calculations:
Zyrtec D contains 120mg of pseudoephedrine per pill. The recommended maximum dosage is 2 pills per 12 hours, so 240mg per max dosage.
The half-life of pseudoephedrine is 4-8 hours and elimination time from the body is 5-6 half-lives, so pseudoephedrine leaves your system in about 20-48 hours assuming you don’t have a pre-existing condition that effects your blood cycling.
The body is roughly 7.4% blood, such that a 70kg person likely has 5.2L of blood, so Nicklas Backstrom, at 95kg (though he’s got more muscle mass than an average person, so the estimate is likely on the high end), probably has at most 7L of blood (probably a bit less).
Half-life calculations are simple…
N_t = N_0 * (1/2) ^ (t / t_h)
where
N_t = amount remaining
N_0 = initial amount
t = time
t_h = halflife
So, using that formula and assuming worst-case elimination time and long-lasting pseudo, within a 48 hour span, if Backstrom had taken the recommended dosage, he would have in his blood at the HIGH-END of estimates… 240mg (immediate dosage before slovenia game and subsequent test + 85mg (12 hours prior) + 30mg (24 hours prior), + 11mg (36 hours), + 4mg (48 hours) = 370milligrams on the high-end estimate assuming PROPER dosage.
370mg/7000mL of blood = .05286 milligrams per mL which is 52.86 MICROGRAMS/mL. The olympic limit is 150 micrograms/mL.
Even assuming Backstrom had average blood for an average 70kg male, he should have at that point just 72 micrograms/mL of blood.
I’m not trying to say he cheated, but the numbers are pretty staggering. To get 190 micrograms per mL, he would have had to have been taking nearly quadruple the dosage if properly scheduled 12 hrs apart.
Even if he was maybe taking 2 of them every 4 hours…
240 + 170 + 120 + 85 + 60 + 43 + 30 + 21 + 15 + 11 + 8 + 5 + 4 = 704mg
AND if he had only 5.2L (average for 70kg not 95kg like backstrom) of blood, it’d still only be 135.4 micrograms/mL of blood.
But people seem to have missed it. I'm not sure how this relates to URINE samples, but here are my calculations:
Zyrtec D contains 120mg of pseudoephedrine per pill. The recommended maximum dosage is 2 pills per 12 hours, so 240mg per max dosage.
The half-life of pseudoephedrine is 4-8 hours and elimination time from the body is 5-6 half-lives, so pseudoephedrine leaves your system in about 20-48 hours assuming you don’t have a pre-existing condition that effects your blood cycling.
The body is roughly 7.4% blood, such that a 70kg person likely has 5.2L of blood, so Nicklas Backstrom, at 95kg (though he’s got more muscle mass than an average person, so the estimate is likely on the high end), probably has at most 7L of blood (probably a bit less).
Half-life calculations are simple…
N_t = N_0 * (1/2) ^ (t / t_h)
where
N_t = amount remaining
N_0 = initial amount
t = time
t_h = halflife
So, using that formula and assuming worst-case elimination time and long-lasting pseudo, within a 48 hour span, if Backstrom had taken the recommended dosage, he would have in his blood at the HIGH-END of estimates… 240mg (immediate dosage before slovenia game and subsequent test + 85mg (12 hours prior) + 30mg (24 hours prior), + 11mg (36 hours), + 4mg (48 hours) = 370milligrams on the high-end estimate assuming PROPER dosage.
370mg/7000mL of blood = .05286 milligrams per mL which is 52.86 MICROGRAMS/mL. The olympic limit is 150 micrograms/mL.
Even assuming Backstrom had average blood for an average 70kg male, he should have at that point just 72 micrograms/mL of blood.
I’m not trying to say he cheated, but the numbers are pretty staggering. To get 190 micrograms per mL, he would have had to have been taking nearly quadruple the dosage if properly scheduled 12 hrs apart.
Even if he was maybe taking 2 of them every 4 hours…
240 + 170 + 120 + 85 + 60 + 43 + 30 + 21 + 15 + 11 + 8 + 5 + 4 = 704mg
AND if he had only 5.2L (average for 70kg not 95kg like backstrom) of blood, it’d still only be 135.4 micrograms/mL of blood.
Need to back up and read the previous thread and you'll find out what those measurements really are....the test is NOT done in milligrams
Micrograms-millilitre=milligrams-kg
Highlander23
Registered User
I find it quite hilarious that people are bashing the IOC because they enforced the rules every party agreed upon before any international event. Blame the player or the doctors, as easy as that.
And to those who keep saying let him play the game, i would like to read their posts if Nicklas played the game, scored the GWG and was declared positive after the game, I would pay to watch the thread discussing that kind of stuff !!
Ps haven't people learn from that lance armstrong thing ? everyone and their mother defended him, yet the truth was shockingly evident from the start (not accusing backstrom by any means)
And to those who keep saying let him play the game, i would like to read their posts if Nicklas played the game, scored the GWG and was declared positive after the game, I would pay to watch the thread discussing that kind of stuff !!
Ps haven't people learn from that lance armstrong thing ? everyone and their mother defended him, yet the truth was shockingly evident from the start (not accusing backstrom by any means)
Past Considerations
Registered User
Players might not be, but the team doctors definitely should be familiar. If a player has not been informed enough about this or they have not consulted the doctors before continuing to do the same thing they do in NHL, it's still totally the player's and/or doctors' fault.
Garbs
Registered User
What kind of Olympian doesn't know that most over-the-counter meds are outlawed? I don't even compete and I know that.
Cruor
Registered User
- May 12, 2012
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To reiterate from a post in the last thread, Visnovsky was found with 204.6 micrograms per millilitre in Vancouver 2010. He was allowed to re-test and play in between, and got off with a warning. Obviously these can't be on the EPO, syringe, blood-bags-level of doping…
Canadian Finn
Oskee Wee Wee
Which leads me to believe it was taken for the purpose heavily discussed on the link above...and many other sources I'm reading....a competitive advantage.
Like how Canada protested the French aerodynamic pants in ski cross? yeah that didn't work at all (as far as I understand).
I don't like exceeding maximum allowable limits ( when the limits were recently increased one log) is the IOC equivalent of the jersey tuck penalty.
you can't have it both ways, if you want to boo REAL cheats like Ben Johnson and the panoply of cyclists there HAS to be hard limits, if not and we go case by case and try to determine intent the whole thing unravels.
does it suck for Backstrom? sure. Is he blameless for this? he'll no. Can people shift the narrative from a guy willingly taking a substance that puts him over the maximum allowable limit by invoking conspiracies including the IOC, hockey Canada, the freemasons, the iihf, the NHL refs, Bruce boudreau and the great argument "sure he was over but it didn't help him"? I guess we will see.
http://bioinformatics.psb.ugent.be/pdf/publications/20355197.pdf
In this study observations of urinary PEPH concentrations of up to 215 ug/ml for maximum recommended therapeutic daily dosis over a 36h period (360 mg) have been made.
In this study observations of urinary PEPH concentrations of up to 215 ug/ml for maximum recommended therapeutic daily dosis over a 36h period (360 mg) have been made.
Lady Scarlet
Registered User
TOML
Registered User
Going to ignore the guy calling out the Capitals for doping awhile back. For now.
But Backstrom surely should have known better. Final game? Really?
I think Canada wins today regardless though. Sweden didn't get through the wall of defense except one time all game long. So no biggie.
But Backstrom surely should have known better. Final game? Really?
I think Canada wins today regardless though. Sweden didn't get through the wall of defense except one time all game long. So no biggie.
If I was in his situation I would become depressed and probably not perform very well at all for a while.
Imagine getting yourself pumped up for the biggest moment of your life. That you've been dreaming about. That you've been working hard for every day. Only moments away, and having it ripped out of your hands at the last moment. It would totally destroy me mentally.
He'll never get over this. On his death bed he'll still be angry and sad about this day.
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