Babcock Interview (Since being hired by Saskatoon) "Something doesn't add up"

[Cor]

Yes, that you are not owed a spot on a team based on history or being the home town kid. You have to earn your spot.

And sorry I agree with him at that time, we had one too many Spezza's and not enough grit. Babcock in reality was giving more to fanbase and media which were complaining continuously of the lack of grit that contributed to their 2 straight years of early exits to the hands of the Capitals and Bruins. So he played grittier players instead of Spezza. Answered all of your complaints!!!

But then media and fans alike blamed Babcock for answering their call outs of use of players. So which one was it? You all wanted more grit? Or you wanted another over the hill Spezza that had no grit?

Grit? He benched Spezza the day of the home opener for Nick Shore.

You know, the guy who had 6 points in 63 games last year.

Come on. There’s no defending that decision. Was bad then and looks even worse now

 

[ShaneFalco]

High horse? Stating facts and if you had a clue you too would understand that Babcock got and is getting the raw deal.

He's a great coach and earned everything he got, from Stanley Cups to Olympic medals to coach of the year award.

He's not a bum like you are making him out to be.

He's a stubborn, control-freak jackass and I could care less about what he did with other teams years ago. He couldn't adapt in the new NHL and turned out to be a horrible coach for us that set the team back. He was also spiteful and petty
Randy Carlyle won the cup

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Eh, he just sounds like your typical egomaniac. Can't apologize when an apology is needed and refuses to learn from clear as day mistakes. Just move on, because Mike won't.

 

[TMLegend]

what if we turned on him 3 years ago, though?




As Keefe's leafs have shown since the moment he took over, Babcock was clearly an epic failure.

Jury is still out on that one. Also Babs never had the benefit of getting to beat up on a bunch of bad/fringe playoff teams over a full season. I do suspect they'll make the conference finals this year and Keefe will be championed some sort of "savior" for beating some of the weakest competition in the league en route to get there. But who knows, his team lost to Columbus of all teams last year.

This season is a one off, and everything that occurs should be taken with a huge grain of salt in the grand scheme of things, not just for the Leafs but across the league.

 

[RogerR]

Jury is still out on that one. Also Babs never had the benefit of getting to beat up on a bunch of bad/fringe playoff teams over a full season. I do suspect they'll make the conference finals this year and Keefe will be championed some sort of "savior" for beating some of the weakest competition in the league en route to get there. But who knows, his team lost to Columbus of all teams last year.

This season is a one off, and everything that occurs should be taken with a huge grain of salt in the grand scheme of things, not just for the Leafs but across the league.

While the Atlantic had 2 great teams, the rest were bad.

Fact is, Keefe is getting better results than Babcock with same core in every category.

 

[TMLegend]

While the Atlantic had 2 great teams, the rest were bad.

Fact is, Keefe is getting better results than Babcock with same core in every category.

What results? He lost to Columbus(lol) in the playoffs as a favorite last year and his only body of work worth anything the team paced at roughly near identical paces as with the Babcock Leafs from 2018 and 2019.

It was Babcocks time to go, the room had tuned him out, I don't disagree there. But I'm not praising Keefe and the Leafs when they've achieved nothing other than beating up a bunch of weak canadian teams.

 

[RogerR]

What results? He lost to Columbus(lol) in the playoffs as a favorite last year and his only body of work worth anything the team paced at roughly near identical paces as with the Babcock Leafs from 2018 and 2019.

It was Babcocks time to go, the room had tuned him out, I don't disagree there. But I'm not praising Keefe and the Leafs when they've achieved nothing of significance.

I think you're aware of how much better their recorded is and in every category. 2nd best NHL team since Babs was fired.

 

[BlueForever75]

While the Atlantic had 2 great teams, the rest were bad.

Fact is, Keefe is getting better results than Babcock with same core in every category.

2 good teams?

I wouldnt call Florida a horrible team, and I wouldnt call games against teams like Buffalo, Ottawa and Montreal easy games as they are all rivals. I would actually say that the Atlantic is the most difficult division in the NHL.

Keefe achieved the same results as Babcock in last years playoffs because the team was once again lacking the grit that Babcock never had. Columbus, Boston and Washington play the same style games. Toughness, grit and forecheck. Defense first.

Having Keefe crowned a savior is all about timing. If we look back at teams like Washington in the past. They always had a young team that couldnt get past certain teams in the playoffs until they did when team matured and the right parts were added.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Reilly were all young players that Babcock worked with and had them during their maturing stages. All great players but lacking experience and turmoil like those early teams in Washington. Keefe inherits maturing experience filled players now, in a system where those players can succeed unlike Babcock. Add to that the moves that Dubas has made in acquiring better personnel in Brodie, Bogo, Simmonds, Thornton, Campbell instead of Hainsey, Hunwick, Marincin, Marleau, and Hutch. Its not that difficult of a prediction that this Leafs team will be more successful.

 

[rumman]

Perhaps or he’s fired anyway at some point like most anticipated. Unless you’re in the organization you’re in no position to say what is ‘not true’.

Keeping Babcock as long as they did was a mistake, and that’s on Dubas. Everyone knew Keefe was was the heir apparent imo.

 

[Bluelines]

Thing is, though, not all cultural appropriation works that way. It depends quite a bit on the power dynamics between the culture doing the appropriating and the culture being appropriated.

Appreciate the reply but again, if you are taking a part of another culture and making it your own, that is a compliment not an insult or a slight. If I thought Dreads were cool, I'm not insulting the African community by wearing them. I saying hey this part of your culture I think is cool and I respect it. For example, if a British person wore a kilt, that would not offend me, historically the Brits have oppressed the Scots for a millennia. (I have Scottish heritage.)

Power dynamics is a bit of a catch all phrase eh? In the context of this discussion, it implies that someone has influence over your actions because of their cultural back ground. Maybe I'm being ignorant but if you don't give up your power (decision making), it's not something someone can use against you, power dynamics sounds more like a mental construct than a real thing. If you lack confidence, anyone can influence your decision making.

 

[BlueForever75]

Keeping Babcock as long as they did was a mistake, and that’s on Dubas. Everyone knew Keefe was was the heir apparent imo.

Dubas kept him cause you dont fire a coach that got you to the playoffs 2 years prior to when you were supposed to!!!

You dont fire a coach that has brought you to the playoffs 3 straight season. Losing once to a team that ended up making it to Stanley Cup (Boston '19) and we took them to 7 games and were one period away from beating them. Or losing to Washington in your first appearance under Babcock and played them tough in a 6 game series with a bunch of kids and a defense that was made of Reilly and nobody's!!!

Babcock took those teams as far as they could with what they had. Putting the blame on Babcock is wrong.

 

[Teeder Keon]

I’ve been so done and moved on from Babcock news
Let’s move on please

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Oh boy we’re back to the Spezza thing again.

Yes, that you are not owed a spot on a team based on history or being the home town kid. You have to earn your spot.

And sorry I agree with him at that time, we had one too many Spezza's and not enough grit. Babcock in reality was giving more to fanbase and media which were complaining continuously of the lack of grit that contributed to their 2 straight years of early exits to the hands of the Capitals and Bruins. So he played grittier players instead of Spezza. Answered all of your complaints!!!

But then media and fans alike blamed Babcock for answering their call outs of use of players. So which one was it? You all wanted more grit? Or you wanted another over the hill Spezza that had no grit?

Please. As if Nick f***ing Shore was some hard nosed and tenacious player.

And Spezza was the furthest thing from egotistical when he signed here, in fact he was quite humble. Showed up to camp early and was willing to play anywhere in the lineup. That Spezza had a good pre-season game and then Babs decided to disparage him in the post game was a huge red flag. That he sat him in the home opener against his former team is even worse and was a massive middle finger to both his GM and a respected vet who had been nothing but receptive and respectful since he had arrived.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Those of you that are turning on Babcock are disgusting. The guy may have some unusual ways to get the best out of his teams, but in the end he was successful.

People cannot sit there and say Babcock only had superstar teams that made him a success. The list is long of coaches that had superstars and the odds on favorite to win championships only to fail time and time again.

If there are players that are sensitive to coaching styles that is on them and their self esteem, not the coach. Shannahan played under Babcock for years and in turn hired him as the coach of the Leafs. Shanny doesnt look like someone that would crumble under scrutiny. If we take the word of Franzen or Chelios or Marner over the backing of players like Shanny, Yzerman, Draper, Lidstrom, Hull, Hasek, etc... All players that were key contributors to the Detroit glory years. Kariya, Neidermyer, Federov, Oates, etc that played for him in Anahiem? That is plain stupid.

Remember Babcock, Holland and Bowman all worked together in some capacity with the Red Wings organization during Babcock's tenure. Holland and Bowman are well respected individuals. Do you actually all think that they would put up with Babcock for as long as they did if he was as horrible of a coach as you all state?

Some players are soft and in the NHL, you need to be tough on players to get them where they should be in their effort and production. Most players react positively and that is on coaching. Some react poorly and that is on them. They are not better then the game and coaches are brought in to do what Babcock exactly did. Get the most out of team.

Some of you that sit there and state that Babcock was crap and egotistical. You need to be egotistical in a sport that is full of players that are far worse egotistical then he. Players believe its the league and coaches that owe them, but in reality its an honor to make it to the NHL and they owe it to the league and fans to produce and providing them the lifestyle that they have playing in it.

Sad to see that Babcock is being blackballed. Doesnt surprise me that Marner is in the middle of it. Always was a player full of drama coming up the ranks with his dad Paul. And when you look at Chelios, always was someone to shoot his mouth. Great players they both are in their own sense. But also 2 players that are all drama.

But for those of you that are saying what you all are about Babcock should all be ashamed. He brought the Leafs back to respectability when no one ever thought it was possible. Sooner then expected. Yes they werent able to get over the hump. But Leafs upper management really never gave him the players to succeed at his style of game that he succeeded in previous stops. He did as well as he could, with what he was given. Only now is Dubas, providing leadership and grit to some extent to his buddy Keefe. Dubas has as much to do with Babcock's demise as anyone. If anyone is to blame for his failures it is he. Not Babcock.

Yeah!

Sure he was toxic, but look at this other stuff he did. People are just disgusting for disliking when people do bad things. I mean, yeah he consistently had amazingly stacked teams and in reality probably underachieved given the level of talent, but like, he won sometimes and didn't completely screw it up, right?

It's really all the fault of the victims. They're just weak babies. Listen to all of these names of good hockey players so that I can fill you with nostalgia; surely if some respected people have some vague association with Babcock, he couldn't be a bad guy. Everybody acts exactly the same to every single person they ever associate with!

If some players don't like the toxicity, maybe they should just stop being so soft, am I right? There is only one true way to coach. Some players haven't said anything - clearly that means everything's fine. Sure, coaches are supposed to get the most out of their team, but if they don't, it's just because the players are stupid.

You all say he's egotistical!! ...and well you're right, but did you have to SAY it?? It's all the darn players fault! They think they deserve to be paid well for doing their job and generating billions in revenue and countless jobs after decades of dedication and hard work and risking their long-term health. The nerve! They should acknowledge how honoured they are for our gift to them every single day! If players gets to be egotistical, then Babcock does too, cause samesies.

Clearly if organizations don't want anything to do with Babcock, it's because he's being blackballed. It couldn't be his own fault! It's all Marner's fault... cause... his dad.... or something... point is he sucks. Clearly anybody that speaks up about improper behaviour is just lookin' for that drama!

Babcock was super awesome. Nevermind the fact that we had some of the best young players in the entire cap era, any success we've had is all him! Leafs management didn't instantly provide him his carefully selected players throughout the league to build a superteam, so it's actually all Dubas' fault. I mean yeah, Lou was with him longer, but look at the glasses, hahaha.

...

Am I doing this right?

 

[Martin Skoula]

2 good teams?

I wouldnt call Florida a horrible team, and I wouldnt call games against teams like Buffalo, Ottawa and Montreal easy games as they are all rivals. I would actually say that the Atlantic is the most difficult division in the NHL.

Keefe achieved the same results as Babcock in last years playoffs because the team was once again lacking the grit that Babcock never had. Columbus, Boston and Washington play the same style games. Toughness, grit and forecheck. Defense first.

Having Keefe crowned a savior is all about timing. If we look back at teams like Washington in the past. They always had a young team that couldnt get past certain teams in the playoffs until they did when team matured and the right parts were added.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Reilly were all young players that Babcock worked with and had them during their maturing stages. All great players but lacking experience and turmoil like those early teams in Washington. Keefe inherits maturing experience filled players now, in a system where those players can succeed unlike Babcock. Add to that the moves that Dubas has made in acquiring better personnel in Brodie, Bogo, Simmonds, Thornton, Campbell instead of Hainsey, Hunwick, Marincin, Marleau, and Hutch. Its not that difficult of a prediction that this Leafs team will be more successful.

That's a narrative we've invented after the fact. They ran into the Pens repeatedly and the series went to 6 or 7 games every time, same as us with Boston. We're talking about one bad line change or one bad deflection being the difference between the Caps being seen as a playoff machine vs perennial choke artists. If they were in different divisions and faced the Pens in the conference finals with the same results, nobody would have been talking about them as chokers - just look at how much Isles fans circlejerk over making the conference finals. All it took was the coinflip in game 7 against the Pens landing their way for once for them to go on to the finals.

 

[forecheck]

Babcock made more money then anyone on this Board could ever dream of .. and he did it COACHING HOCKEY ...,. He should just laugh his way to the Bank and call it a career . Wasted energy - move on Babcock !

 

[Joey Hoser]

I dont get the hate. There's nothing wrong with what he said. You people are sensitive as hell

I don't get why you can't handle the fact that people don't like Babcock. You're so sensitive.

 

[Menzinger]

Grit? He benched Spezza the day of the home opener for Nick Shore.

You know, the guy who had 6 points in 63 games last year.

Come on. There’s no defending that decision. Was bad then and looks even worse now

He also played Spezza not long after. The home opener decision was just a petty decision on Babs part- one that got slammed in the media, and rightfully so.

I get that some folks really like Babcock- and that's fine- but the man's got to take his knocks on some things. This is definitely one of those....

 

[TMLegend]

That's a narrative we've invented after the fact. They ran into the Pens repeatedly and the series went to 6 or 7 games every time, same as us with Boston. We're talking about one bad line change or one bad deflection being the difference between the Caps being seen as a playoff machine vs perennial choke artists. If they were in different divisions and faced the Pens in the conference finals with the same results, nobody would have been talking about them as chokers - just look at how much Isles fans circlejerk over making the conference finals. All it took was the coinflip in game 7 against the Pens landing their way for once for them to go on to the finals.

Delete. Thought you were talking about the Caps.

 

[ottomaddox]

I don't get why you can't handle the fact that people don't like Babcock. You're so sensitive.

I thought this thread was originally stirred up by sensitive people. Maybe my eye test is failing me.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I thought this thread was originally stirred up by sensitive people. Maybe my eye test is failing me.

Because you're offended by anyone who disagrees with you and you project your own sensitivity onto them.

So I think Babcock is an asshole. Get over it.

 

[DaWatcher]

I remember the Philly game where Spezza won it in a shootout to keep Babcock employed and the very next game Spezza was a healthy scratch. Babcock is an asshole, plain and simple. Holl and Dermott join the team and start guns blazing, and what does he do? Demote one of them. Leivo brought excellent board play and cycling to a team that desperately needed it, what did he do? Bench him. Babcock was successful despite his own attempts to sabotage himself, but his luck has finally run out. He should have taken the job in Buffalo, it wouldn't have exposed him for the boring hypocritical loser that he is. I would take Pat Quinn over him any day of the week and twice on a Sunday. That 02 Olympic team was entertaining as hell.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He also played Spezza not long after. The home opener decision was just a petty decision on Babs part- one that got slammed in the media, and rightfully so.

I get that some folks really like Babcock- and that's fine- but the man's got to take his knocks on some things. This is definitely one of those....

It was one of major incidents that led to his demise ... all da TO guys were p*ssed ... JT, Mitch, Zach ... what most don't know is Spezz had gotten tickets for that game for quite a few Marlies exec and coaches and skill guys and it was a bit of a reunion party post game ... when u saw JT named captain and skate out and he looked a little down he was ... i think it went to shanny pregame too to intercede and shanny let Babs do his thing ... it was a sad day when it should have been a party ... but it was a Babs message and i don't think Babs really understood who he was messing with given his big contract with Larry

 

[ShaneFalco]

Don't people who claim to have inside sources have to be vetted?

 

[gtforepro]

Some coaches also I such favourite players whom they favourize. I've played miself so I remembers. Not all coaches are so clear with it though. Some have some bad habits. Drinking or and smoking makes them more eazed and relaxed. Worked well for some :thumb: :up:

Yeah I was thinking the same...