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Babcock Interview (Since being hired by Saskatoon) "Something doesn't add up"

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4thline said:
His days would not have been numbered if he had lived up to his own standards and been a real gud pro that did the best job he could with what he was given in manner his bosses asked.
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Agreed in the end he was his worst enemy. You gotta know your place and how to adapt in the work place. It was clear that Babs was not going to work for a young, rookie GM who had different ideas.
 
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zeke said:
Time to lock this thread no need to taint this great season with awful memories like Babcock.
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It wasn't all awful. The experience was a much different reality than the character assassination by Franzen, Comm, and Chelios. People speak about Babs like everything was bad and he was bad. Jesus. We are still commenting on gossip.

Just so people understand in no way am I saying that Babcock didn't make mistakes.
 
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Stephen said:
Mike Babcock’s biggest faux pas was basically not conforming to the directions the online fan base wanted, which I would describe as matching up with a lot of Bruce Cassidy’s moves in Boston where he stacked the big lines and produced glamorous numbers.
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This had nothing to do with "conforming to the online fan base". Boiling the frustrations and issues with Babcock down to him not creating a super-line is completely missing the mark.
 
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His point about a coach and a GM needing to be on the same page is pretty accurate. Babcock would have done better if Lou had stayed GM, they both had the same vision for the game. I think the game is moving towards the Keefe/Dubas style but I do worry about the playoffs as they seem to still encourage the Lou/Babcock style.

I'm happy both are gone, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable about the post season if they stopped changing the rules for it. This team is the best mix of both that I've seen, but the injuries during this mini Calgary series show how important that sandpaper aspect is. I don't think we lose either game if just one of Thorton, Muzzin or Simmonds plays.
 
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leaffaninvancouver said:
His point about a coach and a GM needing to be on the same page is pretty accurate. Babcock would have done better if Lou had stayed GM, they both had the same vision for the game. I think the game is moving towards the Keefe/Dubas style but I do worry about the playoffs as they seem to still encourage the Lou/Babcock style.
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Lou and Babcock didn't share a style, and Babock's style isn't heavy rough playoff hockey- it's emotionless tactical low event hockey.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
This had nothing to do with "conforming to the online fan base". Boiling the frustrations and issues with Babcock down to him not creating a super-line is completely missing the mark.
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Not really all that deep or complicated.

The line stacking and ability to produce amazing numbers of our favourite players has been the central gripe surrounding Mike Babcock and it’s only ever boiled down to the lack of ice time portioned to the big guns and whether Matthews should be played with Nylander or Marner.

Remember the offseason meetings in Arizona with Matthews to talk about more ice time and special teams in the early years as well as all the handwringing that Babcock and Lamoriello would alienate our young guns and they wouldn’t want to re-sign because of the Leafs tendency to want to depress their special team stats. There was some comparison to Detroit’s utilization of Datsyuk and Zetterberg and how their numbers were depressed at times under Babcock (compared to Crosby).

The productivity of Boston’s Perfection Line was always a big sore spot when compared to the scant utilization of our best players, and only underlined in Game 7 losses when a balanced approach came back to burn Toronto.

A lot of players also received a lot of ridicule for being played with our star players. “Babcock’s Son” Zach Hyman is a perfect example of a great complimentary piece who was groomed in a support role but completely ridiculed for the first couple of years.

There were other things but this was the heart of Babcock’s “incompetence.” The man wasn’t right for the job anymore and couldn’t take the Leafs to the next level. But let’s not pretend he was Peter Horchek 2.0.
 
lipstickjunkie said:
Drafting first overall and drafting Matthews first overall are very different things.
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Ask Edmonton and Colorado if drafting McDavid and Mackinnon stabilized their franchises.

I’m not a Babcock fan but I can see how there were real benefits from his time here that similar rebuilds around the league did not have the benefit of.
 
Martin Skoula said:
Lou was an emotionless low event GM to be fair. His biggest moves were paying market value for a goalie and overpaying an emotionless low event Marleau.
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But in terms of playstyle Lou has favoured and supported more physically aggressive teams than Babs ever did. Babs is the most docile tenured coach of the cap era.
 
Stephen said:
Mike Babcock’s biggest faux pas was basically not conforming to the directions the online fan base wanted, which I would describe as matching up with a lot of Bruce Cassidy’s moves in Boston where he stacked the big lines and produced glamorous numbers.

So I think he was more “unpopular” than “incompetent” and a lot of the bad press pile ons and anecdotes about his treatment of players is a good way for people to substantiate that unpopularity.

Anyway, we have a more player friendly coach now who will put the big guns together and we are waiting for the playoff success to follow, so onward and upwards.
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we had success in the playoffs with Babcock as our coach?
 
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4thline said:
But in terms of playstyle Lou has favoured and supported more physically aggressive teams than Babs ever did. Babs is the most docile tenured coach of the cap era.
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I know Lou has the rep from the 90s/2000s, but his recent work doesn't really line up with it. Which physical players has he acquired this decade? Martin, Komarov, Clowe, and maybe some other 4th line tweeners?

I'm pretty sure Dubas has gotten more physical players who play meaningful minutes in 2 years than Lou has since 2010.
 
AllDay28 said:
we had success in the playoffs with Babcock as our coach?
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The Leafs organization stabilized their scorched earth rebuild from a 30th placed team to a team that has not missed the playoffs since. That’s not typical of other teams that were at the starting blocks with us in 2015 and 2016: Arizona, Edmonton, Buffalo or even Colorado. Or Florida.
 
It makes no sense to tank for Matthews with the draft lottery. I don't believe a word Babcock says. Didn't then. Don't now. He has a high opinion of himself. Much higher than reality.
 
I’m sure Babcock would have liked to win a cup with the leafs but he had no clue what he was doing. He did a horrible job coaching. He must have slept through meeting the players. I don’t think he really knew who they were. Probably still doesn’t. I still think he can be a good coach though.

I wouldn’t doubt the players got Babcock to rank them constantly too though, so take everything you hear about what happened with marner with a grain of salt.

Not defending Babcock. He became a cancer to the whole organization after the marner incident. Hopefully with some time he can repair those relationships and get a job in the nhl again.
 
Just reading through some of the comments on here, I think people are giving Keefe a bit too much credit. Yes, Keefe did a better job just before the lockdown happened, but did people forget how the Leafs looked in the playoffs? They didn't exactly play stellar hockey. I also don't think its overly difficult to look good in this shortened season either , especially when you're not exactly playing against genuine cup contending teams. Good teams yes, but we aren't playing against Boston and Tampa 6 times a year right now . Instead, the Leafs are playing against 5 teams that either didn't or may not have made the playoffs under normal circumstances last season. I do like Keefe quite a bit, but some folks are getting a little carried away
 
Martin Skoula said:
I know Lou has the rep from the 90s/2000s, but his recent work doesn't really line up with it. Which physical players has he acquired this decade? Martin, Komarov, Clowe, and maybe some other 4th line tweeners?

I'm pretty sure Dubas has gotten more physical players who play meaningful minutes in 2 years than Lou has since 2010.
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I think we're talking about two different things. I'm just saying that despite how some of his backers characterize Babs as being in favour of old school tough physical, grindy, hockey he's pretty much the father of turn the other cheek hockey in the modern NHL.
 
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4thline said:
I think we're talking about two different things. I'm just saying that despite how some of his backers characterize Babs as being in favour of old school tough physical, grindy, hockey he's pretty much the father of turn the other cheek hockey in the modern NHL.
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His teams in Detroit were routinely last place in fighting majors.
 
Stephen said:
The Leafs organization stabilized their scorched earth rebuild from a 30th placed team to a team that has not missed the playoffs since. That’s not typical of other teams that were at the starting blocks with us in 2015 and 2016: Arizona, Edmonton, Buffalo or even Colorado. Or Florida.
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Cool. What’s that gotta do with Babcock? And you’ve dodged the point about playoff success.
 
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