Avs PP discussion

[The Kingslayer]

Avs were 31st in goals for above expected 5 on 4. Very telling since that's a full season's sample. They SHOULD be much better.

Hard to know for sure, but I always gravitate back to the key problem being execution on their shots. They do almost everything else right, but when they go to shoot, they can't bury it.

Lack of confidence has to be a big part of this. That Dallas series messed with their heads and then it snowballed in the regular season and messed with their heads more.

Mentally fragile in that case. Done in 1.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Update:

Kings: 2/9 (their only 2 goals in the series)

Avalanche: 0/7

Just doing some quick math, and yep… that’s 0.00%.

 

[The Pwnerer]

At this point you might as well take a penalty immediately and make it 4 on 4 where we tend to play better. An entire year to get it right and we look worse then last year playoffs. I'm dumbfounded how awful it has looked so far against the 30th ranked PK.

 

[flyfysher]

The power play looked bad again, that’s a fact. But it’s also a fact that they had the 11th best power play for two months after the Olympic break, minus the last three games.

It very clearly got better and there were clear reasons why. It just seemed to revert back to their bad tendencies this game. Not enough of a shooting mentality. They need to have a talk as a group and re-emphasize doing what they were doing before that gave them success.

I know the PP is a huge annoyance and problem, but come on RIAL. We can’t have a defeatist attitude after 1 playoff game that they won. If they can get the PP going, they will be playing about as perfect hockey as possible.

Sorry @Foppa2118 but it’s feels like your bolded stats are cherry picking stats to make the Avs PP seem acceptable. It’s clearly not, especially for a SC contender. The substandard PP simply cannot be justified after two seasons of this kaka. I’d say that this PP is the one major weakness this Avs team has but Bednar’s lineup decisions are up there. Kelly does not belong on the second line.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Update:

Kings: 2/9 (their only 2 goals in the series)

Avalanche: 0/7

Just doing some quick math, and yep… that’s 0.00%.

I think the positive is that they are learning. They've realized the PP is such a weakness that they took penalties on two of them to even things up. Baby steps, but we're getting there!

 

[dahrougem2]

At this point you might as well take a penalty immediately and make it 4 on 4 where we tend to play better. An entire year to get it right and we look worse then last year playoffs. I'm dumbfounded how awful it has looked so far against the 30th ranked PK.

Honestly at this point it is exactly what I would do. They have their heads so far up their asses on the PP that you might as well send someone who won't play 4v4 onto the ice to take a penalty immediately off the faceoff. Send Landeskog or Drury or Kiviranta. Tell them to take the draw and get called for a faceoff violation and do it every single PP.

 

[Avs2022]

It's crazy how we refuse to screen the goalie or put big bodies in front the net on the PP.

Like freaking get back to basics.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It's crazy how we refuse to screen the goalie or put big bodies in front the net on the PP.

Like freaking get back to basics.

Don't worry. Every single goal we've scored has been due to traffic in front and off a rebound. Take notes Nathan.

 

[Foppa2118]

Sorry @Foppa2118 but it’s feels like your bolded stats are cherry picking stats to make the Avs PP seem acceptable. It’s clearly not, especially for a SC contender. The substandard PP simply cannot be justified after two seasons of this kaka. I’d say that this PP is the one major weakness this Avs team has but Bednar’s lineup decisions are up there. Kelly does not belong on the second line.

No, I think sometimes you might take what I say and draw the wrong conclusion.

I've never said or implied the Avs PP this season is acceptable. It's clearly not. It was a big part of why they lost last year against Dallas and it's been bad outside of maybe that first PP in Game 2 against LA.

What I was saying is that almost their entire stretch after the Olympics, outside the last three games where they were resting guys, and didn't have anything to play for, they were 11th. Which means they had figured things out for at least a brief stretch. I don't see a reason to be upset with pointing that out. It's relevant information that isn't being shared elsewhere.

I also pointed out on the last page they were 31st prior to the Olympics.

 

[flyfysher]

No, I think sometimes you might take what I say and draw the wrong conclusion.

I've never said or implied the Avs PP this season is acceptable. It's clearly not. It was a big part of why they lost last year against Dallas and it's been bad outside of maybe that first PP in Game 2 against LA.

What I was saying is that almost their entire stretch after the Olympics, outside the last three games where they were resting guys, and didn't have anything to play for, they were 11th. Which means they had figured things out for at least a brief stretch. I don't see a reason to be upset with pointing that out. It's relevant information that isn't being shared elsewhere.

I also pointed out on the last page they were 31st prior to the Olympics.

I don’t think the Avs can win the SC unless they get a disciplined, effective PP. Do they have the ability to do so with the players they have? Yes, remember when Makar first came back after being rested. They were moving the puck so well and not holding it, standing still waiting for a passing/shooting lane to open. Tic tac doe. I agree that it’s ultimately on the players to execute but I’d like Bednar to actually emphasize it beyond mere words, That’s a major reason I was frustrated with his lack of practices. I recall MacKinnon passing across the crease to Landeskog early on in a PP for a goal. That was brilliant and showed the Avs certainly are capable of having a dynamic PP. Then the PP looks like crap again and we’re back to WTH. Doesn’t make sense at all. It’s like someone flipped the stupid switch. Absolutely maddening to think they’ll probably be bounced from this PO for having a crappy PP again. I hoped Bednar would’ve learned from last year’s PO loss that this was a major problem that had to be fixed. But to have the PP suck for months was absolutely inexcusable. The organization MUST hire a PP coach this offseason. If they don’t then I’d view it as a fireable offense.

 

[CobraAcesS]

It was pretty obvious they weren't taking fixing it seriously when they hired a defensive minded coach that would only agree with Bednar.

Still maintain there is no real depth to their strategy, and no plan to break down PKs. Everyone has held onto the puck for too long for as long as I can remember, and basically telegraphs their pass.

Instead of having set plays, they have very general setups that are left to the players creativity, and while Mack is amazing, creativity isn't his strong suit, Makar isn't a top notch play maker either.

 

[katfude]

It's crazy how we refuse to screen the goalie or put big bodies in front the net on the PP.

Like freaking get back to basics.

I made this recommendation months ago and was told it was stupid.

0%.
Lol.
Lmao even.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think the Avs had way too predictable of a PP setup prior to the Olympics, and on their power plays in Game 1 against LA.

But they also had some new creative setups they never used before after the Olympics. They need to get back to that and hopefully they know that.

Game 1 their power plays sucked. Game 2 though, I thought their first power play looked great, and if they continued with that they would have scored on one that game. Quick puck movement, moved their feet constantly instead of standing around, and were shooting every chance they got.

On the second PP though they made a couple lazy passes to MacKinnon to setup up the zone entry, which didn't buy him enough time and space to pick his route on the entry, and he turned it over twice, then Gabe took a penalty because of it to end the power play about a minute in.

Then on the third PP Cale bobbled the puck pulling it off the wall on his backhand and they gave LA a penalty shot 8 seconds in. Then immediately after Wedge made the save the fan broke the glass and they had that 20 minute delay. Then when they finally started again the refs called that BS penalty on MacKinnon 16 seconds later.

The PP needs to be better, and score some goals, full stop, no excuses. But it did look better in Game 2 the first PP, and they never had a chance to get setup on the next two. They need to prove that 1st PP wasn't a fluke the next game.

 

[Grigowski]

There is no fix.....

Just hope your PK is good enough to hold any other team beside LA at a low-scoring level and that the Avs start scoring 5v5.....

End of story. They had 82 games to fix this shit.

 

[zxczxczxczxczxcz]

My fix is to drop MacKinnon and let Necas run the PP from his spot. MacKinnon is a good shot but not great at running the PP. Necas I think can do both. Anyway this will never happen. Next best option imo would be to have more movement on the PP with MacK, Necas and Makar moving around and creating passing lanes for one timers.

 

[flyfysher]

I think the Avs had way too predictable of a PP setup prior to the Olympics, and on their power plays in Game 1 against LA.

But they also had some new creative setups they never used before after the Olympics. They need to get back to that and hopefully they know that.

Game 1 their power plays sucked. Game 2 though, I thought their first power play looked great, and if they continued with that they would have scored on one that game. Quick puck movement, moved their feet constantly instead of standing around, and were shooting every chance they got.

On the second PP though they made a couple lazy passes to MacKinnon to setup up the zone entry, which didn't buy him enough time and space to pick his route on the entry, and he turned it over twice, then Gabe took a penalty because of it to end the power play about a minute in.

Then on the third PP Cale bobbled the puck pulling it off the wall on his backhand and they gave LA a penalty shot 8 seconds in. Then immediately after Wedge made the save the fan broke the glass and they had that 20 minute delay. Then when they finally started again the refs called that BS penalty on MacKinnon 16 seconds later.

The PP needs to be better, and score some goals, full stop, no excuses. But it did look better in Game 2 the first PP, and they never had a chance to get setup on the next two. They need to prove that 1st PP wasn't a fluke the next game.

Agree 100%. Unbelievable that they could be that inconsistent in just one game alone. First PP looked good. A Gomer Pyle moment, ‘surprise, surprise!’ I could see and excuse the flub on the 3rd PP because it could happen to anyone though it’s horrific that it happened in a PO game. Seems like a lack of focus. But the 2nd PP was just inexcusable. Sloppy and lackadaisical. Like WTH? Where’s the killer instinct?

 

[Foppa2118]

From Game 2 GDT:

Not disagreeing that the inconsistency is on the players. However, don’t you think regular practice would help address the inconsistency which has been the core problem with the PP?

Yes. In fact back when they used to practice more under Bednar, I would notice both their PP and 5v5 got noticeably better, after they had an extra day or so to have a good practice.

I think that also helped them in the 22 playoffs, and played a part in their incredible execution, after the longer breaks between series than other teams had.

That said, I also can understand why they may not, since Bednar's system, and some of the player's like Nate's explosive style, are incredibly taxing physically.

My guess is Bedsy's default is to want to practice as much as possible, so there's a reason why he doesn't. Nate is probably a big part of that again, but I would bet they've also leaned into sports science and health in recent years, to fix their injury problems. Which have been better the last couple years. Also about when Bedsy stopped practicing as much.

This is a great article on the imapct of this role with the Leafs if you can access it. There's ways around the paywall too if you're familiar with them.

Why did the Maple Leafs eliminate a job designed to keep players healthy?

Former director of sports science and performance Jeremy Bettle: "It’s absolutely why they have more injuries."

www.nytimes.com

 

[RoyIsALegend]

My guess is Bedsy's default is to want to practice as much as possible, so there's a reason why he doesn't.

Bednar has basically said they’re an older, “experienced, veteran team” and they value rest, recovery work, and video sessions above practicing. He said that just after the Olympic break.

 

[Foppa2118]

Bednar has basically said they’re an older, “experienced, veteran team” and they value rest, recovery work, and video sessions above practicing. He said that just after the Olympic break.

I would bet a lot of money that there's more that went into the decision to practice less. I really think their prior injuries woes are a big reason. Which goes along with "recovery" I suppose.

They've been much healthier the last couple years after they stopped practicing as much. It's a double edged sword though. I think it has had a negative impact on the power play execution.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Bednar has basically said they’re an older, “experienced, veteran team” and they value rest, recovery work, and video sessions above practicing. He said that just after the Olympic break.

Man... I just found the perfect sponsor for the Colorado Avalanche Power Play!!!!!

(might only make sense if you know a few bush pilots.)

 

[Foppa2118]

Man... I just found the perfect sponsor for the Colorado Avalanche Power Play!!!!!

(might only make sense if you know a few bush pilots.)

I think they need to find their swagger again and go more with a "Soulja Boy Superman Dat Hoe" mentality.

Need Naz to step up here and remind Nate, Marty, and Cale that they're baddasses at hockey. Maybe use that as their pre game hype song.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I think they need to find their swagger again and go more with a "Soulja Boy Superman Dat Hoe" mentality.

Need Naz to step up here and remind Nate, Marty, and Cale that they're baddasses at hockey. Maybe use that as their pre game hype song.

Also... another reason I can't make playoff GDTs... I am an old white sailor boy cracker and by definition any GDT I make would be considered either patrimony or harassment.

Seriously though, have you ever eaten one of these magnificent bastards?

I mean, I know you are a sommelier of the smellier area and a true connoisseur of the caca manufacturing plant... but Sailor Boy Bread is a whole level of Sahara dry, moisture sucking, making you want to die rather than try to swallow or spit out shit that has ever been known to man.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Just watching Bruins powerplay and it looks ten times more efficient than the Avalanche. This isn't the most talented team in the world either.

Its mind-blowing how bad we look.

WE have zero idea what to do. That's how it looks and feels.

 

[flyfysher]

From Game 2 GDT:


Yes. In fact back when they used to practice more under Bednar, I would notice both their PP and 5v5 got noticeably better, after they had an extra day or so to have a good practice.

I think that also helped them in the 22 playoffs, and played a part in their incredible execution, after the longer breaks between series than other teams had.

That said, I also can understand why they may not, since Bednar's system, and some of the player's like Nate's explosive style, are incredibly taxing physically.

My guess is Bedsy's default is to want to practice as much as possible, so there's a reason why he doesn't. Nate is probably a big part of that again, but I would bet they've also leaned into sports science and health in recent years, to fix their injury problems. Which have been better the last couple years. Also about when Bedsy stopped practicing as much.

This is a great article on the imapct of this role with the Leafs if you can access it. There's ways around the paywall too if you're familiar with them.

Why did the Maple Leafs eliminate a job designed to keep players healthy?

Former director of sports science and performance Jeremy Bettle: "It’s absolutely why they have more injuries."

www.nytimes.com

Couldn’t access it but I completely get your point. It’s true that the Avs seemed more focused on bringing everyone into the POs as healthy as possible. It’s a double edged sword. Even so, the Avs had the whole season to work on the PP.

The thing that got me was Bednar saying mid-season IIRC that he had left the PP to the players (to figure out). I was flummoxed because the bad PP was one of the primary reasons why the Avs lost to the Stars. One would think they would’ve placed an emphasis and priority on fixing the PP.

That’s why I think the talk about the Avs 5v5 play deflects attention from the problems which must be addressed. The Avs 5v5 play wasn’t what sank their SCC aspirations. To the extent Hakstol was brought in to work on 5v5 play, that was like gilding the lily. From the fan perspective, my reaction was that was all well and good but what about fixing the PP? You can understand my impatience/intolerance because they had all season to try and fix the PP and they didn’t.

For all the talk about not wasting or squandering the Avs contention window when it came to players or CMac, what about Bednar? He’s not stupid (at least most of the time) so how could he not see what so many of us saw when it came to the PP and the absolute need to fix it?

That’s not to disregard giving Bednar credit when the Avs win. He obviously has earned the kudos and accolades many times over. But I have a very pointed objective and single minded focus on winning another SCC.

You’re very smart about hockey although I don’t put as much focus on analytics as you. But I think you’d agree that a team will not win a SCC with a substandard PP (even with an awesome PK). A team has to cover ALL areas to reach that pinnacle of achievement. 5v5, D, depth scoring (being able to roll 4 effective lines), minimizing turnovers, having a competent netminder, good PK and good PP. Those are just the things the team can control. You also have to get good calls/avoid bad calls, puck luck and avoid injuries.

I don’t bitch about the officiating as much as some but I thought the Avs were definitely getting the short end of the stick even before the POs. Add to that the Avs seem to always get the other team’s playing out of their minds when they play the Avs - probably because they're the #1 ranked team. Taken together it means the margin to keep things from going sideways is very thin.

Avs dominated the game 2 stats but going to OT was a scary toss up. Crazy shit can always happen and sometimes it does. That’s why focus and drive are important and I think regular practices reinforce that.

Off topic - did you hear EJ’s comments about not wanting to coach because it involved reviewing way too much video? That’s my fear, namely that without regular practices the players become numb to what they’re hearing or seeing on video. It’s not the same as being on ice and executing. Then again, I never played hockey so what do I know?

 

[Foppa2118]

The thing that got me was Bednar saying mid-season IIRC that he had left the PP to the players (to figure out). I was flummoxed because the bad PP was one of the primary reasons why the Avs lost to the Stars. One would think they would’ve placed an emphasis and priority on fixing the PP.

I don't think he meant he left the power play to the players. He's mentioned multiple times he's taken on a bigger role there this season. For all the reasons people wanted him to probably. If it's not working he's gotta help figure it out.

The players and Bednar have also mentioned Hak by name when talking about the PP working post Olympics. It seems very much like a group effort. I think Hak probably has a bigger role than Bednar still.

If I were to guess I think it breaks down like this:

50% Players (mainly Nate)
30% Hakstol
20% Bednar

Bedsy doesn't have enough time to be the main guy coaching the PP, when he's gotta coach the 5v5 system (which is his baby), go over defensive details (which he's so focused on he doesn't see plays in the O zone sometimes when asked about them), coach the team's mental state to keep them even keel and focused on the process, coach players individual personalities, do press, and scout the other teams. That would be too much for anyone.

FYI, I actually don't put a ton of stock into individual analytics personally. I don't think the public stats control well enough to prevent the factors from influencing them. Team analytics I put more stock in, but the power play stats are just their record. I just think it's helpful to break them down into segments on a long season, to see what might have been going on at the time to help the PP work, or not work.