Prospect Info: Avs draft F Calum Ritchie (2023 #27 overall)

[Foppa2118]

Perhaps, but Malinski is a distinct case. This isn't some 21 year old rookie. The guy is older than Cale Makar. He turns 26 this Summer. IMO what you see is what you get by this age.

I think that's true to a certain degree, but there is still a lot to be said about adjusting to the jump from college hockey, to NHL hockey. The speed, physicality, and talent level that a defenseman needs to defend against are all huge steps up.

Any rookie NHLer, regardless of age, I think you need to wait until at least their 2nd season to be confident in your read on their ability. Younger rookies you should give more time, but even with Malinski, him bouncing between the Avs and Eagles, and only playing 23 NHL games, isn't quite enough to be definitive about their NHL capabilities IMO.

 

[niwotsblessing]

I think that's true to a certain degree, but there is still a lot to be said about adjusting to the jump from college hockey, to NHL hockey. The speed, physicality, and talent level that a defenseman needs to defend against are all huge steps up.

Any rookie NHLer, regardless of age, I think you need to wait until at least their 2nd season to be confident in your read on their ability. Younger rookies you should give more time, but even with Malinski, him bouncing between the Avs and Eagles, and only playing 23 NHL games, isn't quite enough to be definitive about their NHL capabilities IMO.

All of your points are valid. All of your points will be ignored or ridiculed by other members of this forum who are not employed as hockey scouts. So it goes.

 

[The Abusement Park]

All of your points are valid. All of your points will be ignored or ridiculed by other members of this forum who are not employed as hockey scouts. So it goes.

Well hopefully with some NHL time Behrens can become our new Manson then.

 

[Mac Attack]

I guess the better question is who has Bednar actually given a shot to other than first round picks?

Not saying we have countless guys that should be given shots but giving a guy like Foudy minimal mins and shit linemates every time he gets a call up isn't exactly giving him a look.

I mean he got in 4 games this year and got around 5ish mins a game. Not exactly getting a shot to show what he can provide the team.

The NHL team is about winning, not giving extra minutes to a guy who only put up 14 points in 26 games last year in the AHL. If he actually did something to prove it in the AHL, then he deserves a shot in the NHL. His five minutes a game was because they had to fill the fourth line out with someone, not because this was his shot at the big leagues.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

I think that's true to a certain degree, but there is still a lot to be said about adjusting to the jump from college hockey, to NHL hockey. The speed, physicality, and talent level that a defenseman needs to defend against are all huge steps up.

Any rookie NHLer, regardless of age, I think you need to wait until at least their 2nd season to be confident in your read on their ability. Younger rookies you should give more time, but even with Malinski, him bouncing between the Avs and Eagles, and only playing 23 NHL games, isn't quite enough to be definitive about their NHL capabilities IMO.

This is why the league has so many second chance guys who end up being contributors for a second or third team.

When your team is younger with guys on cheaper deals and not necessarily trying to compete you can take more risks on these types.

The Avs aren't in the stage where they are going to throw Malinski in and give him a full season to sink or swim.

The guy could end up being a cheaper Girard or even Toews replacement. But he'll never be that on the Avs. He won't get the chance.

Girard forced his way onto a deep competitive blue line in Nashville as a youngster.

Perhaps a flaw in the way the Avs develop guys. Would a young prospect like Behrens get buried for guys like Caleb Jones and JJ?

 

[Foppa2118]

All of your points are valid. All of your points will be ignored or ridiculed by other members of this forum who are not employed as hockey scouts. So it goes.

I think that's unfortunately true on some topics with some people, but I also know @dahrougem2 and a few others are capable of disagreeing in an intellectually honest way, without taking cheap shots, and will acknowledge if he thinks someone else made a fair point. I wish we had more of that here.

 

[niwotsblessing]

I think that's unfortunately true on some topics with some people, but I also know @dahrougem2 and a few others are capable of disagreeing in an intellectually honest way, without taking cheap shots, and will acknowledge if he thinks someone else made a fair point. I wish we had more of that here.

Me too, that's why I responded to you as I did.

 

[Perratrooper]

For any of the people who have regularly watched Ritchie, is his skating comparable to Mitts or is he slower than that?

@henchman21 I know you often compare him to Strome, how differently do you view Mitts and Strome? I honestly only watch 2-5 games from Stone a year, so the comparable doesn’t sink in as well as Avs comps. Is it just a willingness to go to the difficult areas that separates Mitts and Strome?

From what I’ve seen, Ritchie’s hands aren’t on the same level as Mitts (although who’s are?), but Ritchie has a better shot. It also seems like Ritchie plays a bit higher in the o-zone, but has shown willingness and capability to play down low.

I personally see a lot of RyJo in Ritchie, less talented than what peak RyJo was, but more drive.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

For any of the people who have regularly watched Ritchie, is his skating comparable to Mitts or is he slower than that?

@henchman21 I know you often compare him to Strome, how differently do you view Mitts and Strome? I honestly only watch 2-5 games from Stone a year, so the comparable doesn’t sink in as well as Avs comps. Is it just a willingness to go to the difficult areas that separates Mitts and Strome?

From what I’ve seen, Ritchie’s hands aren’t on the same level as Mitts (although who’s are?), but Ritchie has a better shot. It also seems like Ritchie plays a bit higher in the o-zone, but has shown willingness and capability to play down low.

I personally see a lot of RyJo in Ritchie, less talented than what peak RyJo was, but more drive.

That is not a very high bar. In fact it is very, very low.

 

[henchman21]

For any of the people who have regularly watched Ritchie, is his skating comparable to Mitts or is he slower than that?

@henchman21 I know you often compare him to Strome, how differently do you view Mitts and Strome? I honestly only watch 2-5 games from Stone a year, so the comparable doesn’t sink in as well as Avs comps. Is it just a willingness to go to the difficult areas that separates Mitts and Strome?

From what I’ve seen, Ritchie’s hands aren’t on the same level as Mitts (although who’s are?), but Ritchie has a better shot. It also seems like Ritchie plays a bit higher in the o-zone, but has shown willingness and capability to play down low.

I personally see a lot of RyJo in Ritchie, less talented than what peak RyJo was, but more drive.

I don't think the skating is dramatically different, but the mindset is. Ritchie is still very perimeter and not a dirty area player despite having the perfect frame for it. He almost never initiates contact and his boardwork success is pretty much predicated on his frame being bigger. You match him up with a guy who can combat his frame advantage, he loses a lot more battles. This is where his game really has to improve as he moves up levels. He's plenty skilled, has good hands, good shot (though not a fan of his release), good IQ, even skates well for being his size... he has to learn to battle and use his frame. This isn't perfect... but Mitts vs Ritchie is kinda like ROR vs Strome. Both are guys who can get you ~60-65 points, they just do it in dramatically different ways.

I know people take the Dylan Strome comparison badly, and I can see the reasons for that. I do think people just completely overlook the good parts of Strome's game. He has turned into a low end 2C (maybe even average) despite his flaws. His struggles early came from teams wanting to turn him into something he just isn't. Arizona and Chicago both wanted a dirty area, 2way big center. When he's really just a big softie who is really skilled and needs to be paired with wingers you'd tend to give a smaller, weaker center. I also don't think people realize just how absurdly talented Strome is and was in the OHL. The numbers he put up on a much stronger league were just bonkers. There is a reason he was a top 5 pick (and clear reasons why I thought he should go in the 2nd that year). I think if the Avs are determined to make Ritchie a Johnston clone, they are going to have trouble and get frustrated with his inability to play that way. If they accept a Strome, they are much more likely to have success with the pick.

RyJo (and PLD) are a different breed. Their issues are purely motivation based. They have the skill set and mentality (when motivated) to be that big C that everyone desires and can live in the dirty areas. They just care so little of the time.

 

[Chiarelli]

If he's a Strome clone then Gulyayev is our best prospect and we should be moving Ritchie + 1st + Georgiev for a goalie this summer.
A Strome type has value but only further down the depth chart on a value contract - similar to Burkie.
Once these players get paid market value and relied on to drive in a lineup they are useless imo.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I do think making Ritchie available would make  some sense honestly. Mack/Mitts should be our 1-2 Center punch for the rest of this teams contender/playoff team window.

If you could use Ritchie to make a significant upgrade somewhere in the lineup, it would make sense IMO.

Our issue is we don't have the cap space to make a trade that isn't essentially a $ in, $ out kind of trade, at least not today. Could look very different by July 1.

 

[Balthazar]

I do think making Ritchie available would make  some sense honestly. Mack/Mitts should be our 1-2 Center punch for the rest of this teams contender/playoff team window.

If you could use Ritchie to make a significant upgrade somewhere in the lineup, it would make sense IMO.

What makes sense is having a good player on ELC.

 

[Chiarelli]

What makes sense is having a good player on ELC.

not with this core when that timeline is 2026-2027 at earliest and no guarantee.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I think we need to see Ritchie play some in the NHL before we consider him a trade chip right now. He could exponentially increase his value or even become untouchable, and I doubt he could hurt his stock a ton by a poor first showing.

 

[henchman21]

IMO Ritchie shouldn't be untouchable by any stretch, but he'd have to bring back a cost controlled asset (for at least 2 seasons, but preferably 4) who can play an impact role. Just say a player like Hagel, when Tampa traded for him, was available... Ritchie should pack his shit.

The Avs really need to see in camp if he can have an impact at wing in the top 6. If he can't do that, he should be sent back. A year playing Bednar's style of 3rd line will likely hurt more than it helps, so he has to be able to click with Mitts or MacK to stabilize a role there.

 

[PAZ]

What makes sense is having a good player on ELC.

If they hit.

Imagine if we traded Newhook or Jost at peak value instead of hoping they turned into something and wasting a roster spot.

 

[Balthazar]

If they hit.

Imagine if we traded Newhook or Jost at peak value instead of hoping they turned into something and wasting a roster spot.

We got full value for Newhook. You never know when peak value is, imagine if we traded Mack after year 3.

I'd much rather trade a young promising player too late than too early.

 

[Hasbro]

We got full value for Newhook. You never know when peak value is, imagine if we traded Mack after year 3.

I'd much rather trade a young promising player too late than too early.

I sure as hell didn't expect to do as well as 1st and 2nd for Newhook.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I sure as hell didn't expect to do as well as 1st and 2nd for Newhook.

Exactly. I'd say we got peak value.

 

[henchman21]

I think it is clear we didn't get peak value out of Newhook. A late 1st + 2nd sort of trade... moves you up about 2-5 spots. Which would land the straight up 1st round pick for him in the ranges 25-29 sort of range... which is clearly a drop from where he was drafted. That 16th overall pick would have been more valuable than Newhook last summer. Still the Avs did a great job getting value for him prior the bottom falling out. Another year or two with the level he played here and we are looking at a mid round pick. They learned from the Jost mistake and cut bait earlier.

 

[RockLobster]

I think it is clear we didn't get peak value out of Newhook. A late 1st + 2nd sort of trade... moves you up about 2-5 spots. Which would land the straight up 1st round pick for him in the ranges 25-29 sort of range... which is clearly a drop from where he was drafted. That 16th overall pick would have been more valuable than Newhook last summer. Still the Avs did a great job getting value for him prior the bottom falling out. Another year or two with the level he played here and we are looking at a mid round pick. They learned from the Jost mistake and cut bait earlier.

Now all the need to do is learn to not draft these types of players to begin with…

 

[henchman21]

Now all the need to do is learn to not draft these types of players to begin with…

I'm probably a little less harsh on this. Don't draft them and expect them to take over a 2C role. Newhook is going to be a fine NHL player, but if he's your 2C... you're a bad team. If he's your 3C, you have to have an unusual type of 3rd line and make it more of a sheltered offensive line. As a 2nd line wing, he's probably a decent player who can supplement a core, but never be a core piece.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Does anyone have a feel for the percentage of top-six wingers in the NHL that were actually centers in junior?

 

[henchman21]

Does anyone have a feel for the percentage of top-six wingers in the NHL that were actually centers in junior?

A lot… probably approaching half in NA. Less common in Europe with how quickly they get to professional levels, but many guys would play center in their juniors. Like Rants.