Confirmed with Link: Avs acquire Casey Mittelstadt for Bo Byram

[avsfan2189]

never forget the posters in here who were regretting this trade and done with mitts after a rough 4-5 game stretch towards the end....

 

[Dubi Doo]

So, I've been intrigued by this fit since Buffalo traded Mitts to COL. How has he fit in? Do you think he'll be your 2C of the future. Seems like he produce well in the playoffs. I only caught a couple of games, and thought he looked solid as usual.

 

[Avs_19]

So, I've been intrigued by this fit since Buffalo traded Mitts to COL. How has he fit in? Do you think he'll be your 2C of the future. Seems like he produce well in the playoffs. I only caught a couple of games, and thought he looked solid as usual.

He's a near perfect fit and a keeper. His playoff performance was very impressive and he showed a defensive game that I didn't think he had. Hopefully he gets signed long-term.

 

[sethro109]

So, I've been intrigued by this fit since Buffalo traded Mitts to COL. How has he fit in? Do you think he'll be your 2C of the future. Seems like he produce well in the playoffs. I only caught a couple of games, and thought he looked solid as usual.

He had a bit of a dip at the end of the season, but was extremely good for us in the playoffs. I think he'll do just fine in our 2C spot. Now we have to find some wing help for him. Next year might be a little rough for him, with our captain's knee still being a question mark and our big Russian being a coked-out idiot.

 

[Foppa2118]

Solid showing so far from Mitts. His consistency is the only thing he needs to work on. But consistency is what separates the cream from the crop in the NHL.

Consistency is the reason he's been more of a 60 point guy instead of 70-80, even when scoring has gone up. It's why he was struggling to add offense in the playoffs, but then was one of their better producers in the last few games. It's why he has a great shot one day, but misses the net, or shoots into the chest on other opportunities. Consistency is why he's great at faceoffs one minute and then loses a couple key draws clean.

It even applies to things he's good at like defense. Overall he was arguably the Avs best defensive forward, but he's also had multiple defensive breakdowns that led to goals in his brief tenure so far.

Ok trade so far IMO. Avs miss a lot of what Byram brought both offensively, defensively, and in transition. Mitts added some of what they missed in two way play and offensive support from the 2nd line.

But he's got more to offer that I hope he can, and working on his shot, and finding that consistency are the keys. Needs to continue working on his skating too. It's not bad, but in order to take another step in his game with this team, it may need another gear. Hope he focuses on that in the offseason.

 

[dahrougem2]

Solid showing so far from Mitts. His consistency is the only thing he needs to work on. But consistency is what separates the cream from the crop in the NHL.

Consistency is the reason he's been more of a 60 point guy instead of 70-80, even when scoring has gone up. It's why he was struggling to add offense in the playoffs, but then was one of their better producers in the last few games. It's why he has a great shot one day, but misses the net, or shoots into the chest on other opportunities. Consistency is why he's great at faceoffs one minute and then loses a couple key draws clean.

It even applies to things he's good at like defense. Overall he was arguably the Avs best defensive forward, but he's also had multiple defensive breakdowns that led to goals in his brief tenure so far.

Ok trade so far IMO. Avs miss a lot of what Byram brought both offensively, defensively, and in transition. Mitts added some of what they missed in two way play and offensive support from the 2nd line.

But he's got more to offer that I hope he can, and working on his shot, and finding that consistency are the keys. Needs to continue working on his skating too. It's not bad, but in order to take another step in his game with this team, it may need another gear. Hope he focuses on that in the offseason.

I don't know if I would say he was struggling to add offense in the playoffs. He tied with Mikko Rantanen (big wtf moment here) for most even strength points in the playoffs on the Avs.

9 points in 11 games with basically zero PP time is tremendous.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't know if I would say he was struggling to add offense in the playoffs. He tied with Mikko Rantanen (big wtf moment here) for most even strength points in the playoffs on the Avs.

9 points in 11 games with basically zero PP time is tremendous.

It's just a matter of consistency. That's why the second part of that sentence said, "but then was one of their better producers in the last few games."

He was fine at the end of the playoffs, but before that most people, including the coaching staff were looking for a little more. He had 1 goal in 8 games and it came in the first game. He's got a bit more to offer, and hopefully he does.

 

[redacted]

I don't know if I would say he was struggling to add offense in the playoffs. He tied with Mikko Rantanen (big wtf moment here) for most even strength points in the playoffs on the Avs.

9 points in 11 games with basically zero PP time is tremendous.

Big if, but if he gets PP1 time next year, he's putting up 70 points. The offense is there, it just won't come heavily in the form of goals. He'll need a decent finisher, but if he gets that, he's going to have a career year.

Those 9 ES points are currently 7th in the playoffs. 1 behind Cheese, Boeser, and McDavid. 2 behind Bouchard and Aho. 3 behind Drai. Those are the only players ahead of him. If people are not seeing offense from Mitts, they are willingly blind to it.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think Mitts can put up better numbers, but he needs to improve his shot to do so. If Drouin comes back, he won't get much more PP time. Him and Lehky will likely play on PP1.

You can't really be a pure playmaker in the NHL anymore. It holds back too much production that is needed to win. Defenses and systems are so good, that it often takes an individual effort to be the difference, because so many of the passing lanes get closed, and goalies can make most routine saves.

There's really very few playmakers in the NHL now. Avs won the Cup without one basically. The closest thing to playmakers on that team were probably Mikko, Gabe, and Burky, but all of them shoot just as much as pass.

Mitts showed flashes of having a good enough shot to be that difference, but the consistency needs to be worked on. Could just be a matter of reps, which is how Drouin improved his shot this year staying late in practices shooting pucks with Nate.

 

[Avs9296]

I think a full training camp with the Avs or if he can find a way to workout with Mack in the offseason will do wonders. He seemed to be lacking a bit of conditioning imo. I think under Bednar and maybe Mack's guidance he can get to another gear.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It's just a matter of consistency. That's why the second part of that sentence said, "but then was one of their better producers in the last few games."

He was fine at the end of the playoffs, but before that most people, including the coaching staff were looking for a little more. He had 1 goal in 8 games and it came in the first game. He's got a bit more to offer, and hopefully he does.

I mean if he was a more consistent offensive producer he'd be a top line C instead of a 2nd line C. I don't really see how there can be much to complain about when it comes to Mitts playoffs. He was unreal defensively and was almost PPG. Sure I think we all wish that he scored more, but dudes a playmaker through and through he's never going to be a prolific goal scorer.

 

[Foppa2118]

I mean if he was a more consistent offensive producer he'd be a top line C instead of a 2nd line C. I don't really see how there can be much to complain about when it comes to Mitts playoffs. He was unreal defensively and was almost PPG. Sure I think we all wish that he scored more, but dudes a playmaker through and through he's never going to be a prolific goal scorer.

I mean, like I said it's a matter of consistency. He played well, but he scored 1 goal in the first game, then went the next 7 playoff games without a goal, and wasn't very noticeable in a lot of those games.

He deserves praise for picking it up late, but If he hadn't scored those late goals, and went the entire playoffs outside the first game without scoring, that wouldn't have been good enough for a 2C. That's why the coaching staff said they were hoping for a little more out of him.

You just can't be a pure playmaker in the NHL anymore. 60 points is a solid contribution, but with the increased production in today's NHL, that's closer to the contribution we're used to from 50 point players just a few seasons ago.

When MacKinnon is putting up 140 points, then 60 points, or 133rd in pts/game like he was this year is just on the cusp of 2C production for a top contender. Offensively, that's only a slight upgrade on JTC or Newhook, and they weren't good enough as 2C on the Avs.

Kadri is a good example. He's just as inconsistent, but he scores more goals, and his points come in bigger bunches. So despite a slow start to the season, he still put up 75 points.

I like how Mitts played for the most part, but I'd really like to see him work on his shot and conditioning/skating, so he can get closer to 25 goals 70+ points level. They'll need his scoring even more without Val too.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I mean, like I said it's a matter of consistency. He played well, but he scored 1 goal in the first game, then went the next 7 playoff games without a goal, and wasn't very noticeable in a lot of those games.

He deserves praise for picking it up late, but If he hadn't scored those late goals, and went the entire playoffs outside the first game without scoring, that wouldn't have been good enough for a 2C. That's why the coaching staff said they were hoping for a little more out of him.

You just can't be a pure playmaker in the NHL anymore. 60 points is a solid contribution, but with the increased production in today's NHL, that's closer to the contribution we're used to from 50 point players just a few seasons ago.

When MacKinnon is putting up 140 points, then 60 points, or 133rd in pts/game like he was this year is just on the cusp of 2C production for a top contender. Offensively, that's only a slight upgrade on JTC or Newhook.

Kadri is a good example. He's just as inconsistent, but he scores more goals, and his points come in bigger bunches. So despite a slow start to the season, he still put up 75 points.

I like how Mitts played for the most part, but I'd really like to see him work on his shot and conditioning/skating, so he can get closer to 25 goals 70+ points level. They'll need his scoring even more without Val too.

If he was more consistent he'd be a top line guy instead of a 2C, and him being a 2C is not a major issue at all here.

And why can't you be a pure playmaker anymore? If he can get a good connection with someone and put up 15-50 instead of 25-40 I don't really see the issue. Especially considering he adds plenty outside of just production. I mean obviously him scoring more would be welcomed here but just because Kadri was more of a goalscorer doesn't mean Mitts needs to.

 

[Foppa2118]

If he was more consistent he'd be a top line guy instead of a 2C, and him being a 2C is not a major issue at all here.

And why can't you be a pure playmaker anymore? If he can get a good connection with someone and put up 15-50 instead of 25-40 I don't really see the issue. Especially considering he adds plenty outside of just production. I mean obviously him scoring more would be welcomed here but just because Kadri was more of a goalscorer doesn't mean Mitts needs to.

More consistency would put him middle of the pack or better in production among 2nd liners. Which would be just fine IMO. There are many 2nd liners in the NHL that score 70+ points.

Mitts was 114th among forwards in the NHL in pts/gm this year. 60th among centers. That's just on the cusp of 2nd line production.

Goal scoring he was tied for 189th among forwards in goals/gm and tied for 88th among centers.

60 points is manageable for a 2C with some goal scoring wingers. It's an improvement on RyJo for sure, and a slight improvement on JTC and Newhook. But ideally the 2C on a top contender like the Avs, who rely so much on offense for their success, they would be closer to the 70+ point mark to go from a good team, to a great team that wins the Cup.

Hopefully he can get there next year, but he'll need to make some small improvements. Small sample size obviously, but he actually scored at a worse rate in Colorado than Buffalo. 62 point pace vs 46 for the Avs.

The evidence for not being a pure playmaker is that you can't find many in the NHL anymore. Everyone has improved their shot, because like I said earlier, systems are so good now, the high level passes aren't available, and it often takes an individual effort to score goals and beat teams.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYANTHINGS]

I mean, like I said it's a matter of consistency. He played well, but he scored 1 goal in the first game, then went the next 7 playoff games without a goal, and wasn't very noticeable in a lot of those games.

He deserves praise for picking it up late, but If he hadn't scored those late goals, and went the entire playoffs outside the first game without scoring, that wouldn't have been good enough for a 2C. That's why the coaching staff said they were hoping for a little more out of him.

You just can't be a pure playmaker in the NHL anymore. 60 points is a solid contribution, but with the increased production in today's NHL, that's closer to the contribution we're used to from 50 point players just a few seasons ago.

When MacKinnon is putting up 140 points, then 60 points, or 133rd in pts/game like he was this year is just on the cusp of 2C production for a top contender. Offensively, that's only a slight upgrade on JTC or Newhook, and they weren't good enough as 2C on the Avs.

Kadri is a good example. He's just as inconsistent, but he scores more goals, and his points come in bigger bunches. So despite a slow start to the season, he still put up 75 points.

I like how Mitts played for the most part, but I'd really like to see him work on his shot and conditioning/skating, so he can get closer to 25 goals 70+ points level. They'll need his scoring even more without Val too.

Mittelstadt was very noticeable at both ends of the rink in games 2 and 3 which were pivotal games vs the Jets.

Otherwise I thought he was very average. Everyone looked good vs the Jets.

Everyone was bad vs Dallas.

He's a guy who might in a career year hit 80 points. But is more likely a 60ish point guy who's solid at both ends of the ice.

A poor man's Lindholm who is less physical to compare him to a guy that was also available. Lindholm is a decently physical player. Solid defensively and can chip in offense but not drive the bus. Lindholm will be more expensive and is aging. But cost a lot less asset wise to obtain.

 

[Foppa2118]

Mittelstadt was very noticeable at both ends of the rink in games 2 and 3 which were pivotal games vs the Jets.

Otherwise I thought he was very average. Everyone looked good vs the Jets.

Everyone was bad vs Dallas.

He's a guy who might in a career year hit 80 points. But is more likely a 60ish point guy who's solid at both ends of the ice.

Agreed. And going from this to the next level up, or to a career year, is just a matter of consistency.

There's not just a difference in consistency from top line players to 3rd/4th line players. There's differences in many contexts.

There's a difference between average 2nd liners and good 2nd liners. Good to great. Expectations for 2C's on non playoff teams vs playoff teams. Playoff teams vs contenders. Contenders vs Cup champs, etc.

Avs have very high expectations. Especially since they rely so heavily on offense to win games.

 

[The Abusement Park]

More consistency would put him middle of the pack or better in production among 2nd liners. Which would be just fine IMO. There are many 2nd liners in the NHL that score 70+ points.

Mitts was 114th among forwards in the NHL in pts/gm this year. 60th among centers. That's just on the cusp of 2nd line production.

Goal scoring he was tied for 189th among forwards in goals/gm and tied for 88th among centers.

60 points is manageable for a 2C with some goal scoring wingers. It's an improvement on RyJo for sure, and a slight improvement on JTC and Newhook. But ideally the 2C on a top contender like the Avs, who rely so much on offense for their success, they would be closer to the 70+ point mark to go from a good team, to a great team that wins the Cup.

I mean based on everything we've seen since he's joined 65pts seems very feasible for Mitts which is more than fine enough for a 2C. Especially considering he's so damn good defensively so he doesn't have to make up for his shortcomings with offense ala Kadri. Also 65pts is right in line with basically all the 2C's of playoff teams who are actual 2C's not guys like Drai. Coyle(60pts albeit a career year), Staal/Kotkaniemi(30 and 27pts), Duchene/Seguin(65pts and 52 in 68), Bennett(41 in 69), Danault(47 in 78), Novak(45 in 71), Nelson(69), Trocheck(77), Cirelli(45pts), Tavares(65pts), Karlsson(60 in 70), Monahan(59). He was pacing for 62 with Buffalo and then had a bit of a learning curve, like basically all the new additions do, learning the system but still ended up with 57pts and 18 goals. I don't think 65-70pts is out of the question for Mitts and if he ups his goal scoring just a bit he's a 20-25 goal scorer which is more than fine enough for a 2C.

 

[dahrougem2]

More consistency would put him middle of the pack or better in production among 2nd liners. Which would be just fine IMO. There are many 2nd liners in the NHL that score 70+ points.

Mitts was 114th among forwards in the NHL in pts/gm this year. 60th among centers. That's just on the cusp of 2nd line production.

Goal scoring he was tied for 189th among forwards in goals/gm and tied for 88th among centers.

60 points is manageable for a 2C with some goal scoring wingers. It's an improvement on RyJo for sure, and a slight improvement on JTC and Newhook. But ideally the 2C on a top contender like the Avs, who rely so much on offense for their success, they would be closer to the 70+ point mark to go from a good team, to a great team that wins the Cup.

Hopefully he can get there next year, but he'll need to make some small improvements. Small sample size obviously, but he actually scored at a worse rate in Colorado than Buffalo. 62 point pace vs 46 for the Avs.

The evidence for not being a pure playmaker is that you can't find many in the NHL anymore. Everyone has improved their shot, because like I said earlier, systems are so good now, the high level passes aren't available, and it often takes an individual effort to score goals and beat teams.

How would that put him on the cusp of 2nd line production?

I am not going to claim every team has 3 1st liners, 3 2nd liners etc points wise BUT if you did use that arbitrary measurement, there should be 96 1st line forwards, meaning Mittelstadt at 114th for pts/gm would be smack dab in 2nd line production rate.

 

[PAZ]

It'll be interesting to see how Mitts is next year with a full offseason to work on his conditioning after playing in the Avs' system. Mitts plays the type of game that would easily earn him 20+ minutes a night with Bednar, it just depends if his conditioning is up to par.

 

[dahrougem2]

It'll be interesting to see how Mitts is next year with a full offseason to work on his conditioning after playing in the Avs' system. Mitts plays the type of game that would easily earn him 20+ minutes a night with Bednar, it just depends if his conditioning is up to par.

We don't want that, though. Last thing we should be wanting from Bednar is him to kill the top two lines AGAIN next season.

Top line should play 20, 2nd line should play 16, 3rd line should play 14, 4th line should play 10. Adjust for special teams play.

No reason to burn these guys out.

 

[Foppa2118]

How would that put him on the cusp of 2nd line production?

I am not going to claim every team has 3 1st liners, 3 2nd liners etc points wise BUT if you did use that arbitrary measurement, there should be 96 1st line forwards, meaning Mittelstadt at 114th for pts/gm would be smack dab in 2nd line production rate.

Characterize it however you like, but 114th among forwards, isn't that high up in the NHL in point production. It's not terrible, but you would aim for better on a top contender.

Take Compher for example. I think they potentially could have won with him at 2C just like they could have won with Mitts. But he was not viewed by many Avs fans (myself included) as a 2nd line player. His 52 points were not ideal for a team that relies on offense like the Avs, and a 60 point player is only a small step up from that.

It's a fair point that Mitts brings other things to the table like defense and playmaking, but offense is the primary role of a 2nd liner, and goal scoring is more important than ever.

There's also 16 other players behind him at 114th that are either tied or within 0.03 pts/gm, which is within the margin for error for a bounce or two either way.

 

[dahrougem2]

Characterize it however you like, but 114th among forwards, isn't that high up in the NHL in point production. It's not terrible, but you would aim for better on a top contender.

Take Compher for example. I think they potentially could have won with him at 2C just like they could have won with Mitts. But he was not viewed by many Avs fans (myself included) as a 2nd line player. His 52 points were not ideal for a team that relies on offense like the Avs, and a 60 point player is only a small step up from that.

It's a fair point that Mitts brings other things to the table like defense and playmaking, but offense is the primary role of a 2nd liner, and goal scoring is more important than ever.

There's also 16 other players behind him at 114th that are either tied or within 0.03 pts/gm, which is within the margin for error for a bounce or two either way.

Guess we just have to disagree. Roope Hintz for example was 87th amongst forwards in pts/gm. He is a clear cut 1st liner to me. Brad Marchand was 84th, same thing.

Obviously he has to continue producing but I think he is absolutely 2nd line production right now and in the thick of it.

 

[PAZ]

We don't want that, though. Last thing we should be wanting from Bednar is him to kill the top two lines AGAIN next season.

Top line should play 20, 2nd line should play 16, 3rd line should play 14, 4th line should play 10. Adjust for special teams play.

No reason to burn these guys out.

You know that isn't going to happen, it's unrealistic with Bednar at the helm.

Bednar rides his and top guys and the rest need to earn their ice-time. I'd much rather Mitts be in the group that Bednar trusts and relies upon.

 

[Foppa2118]

Guess we just have to disagree. Roope Hintz for example was 87th amongst forwards in pts/gm. He is a clear cut 1st liner to me. Brad Marchand was 84th, same thing.

Obviously he has to continue producing but I think he is absolutely 2nd line production right now and in the thick of it.

No problem. To be fair HIntz and Marchand are both 70+ point players multiple times though. 59 is Mitts career high. He had 57 in 80 this year.

Also just to be clear, I believe Mitts does produce like a 2nd liner, but so far it's been towards the bottom end, and that includes many non playoff teams.

If the Avs weren't a top contender with Cup or bust expectations, or relied so heavily on offense to win, I'd be fine with it as is, but similar to wanting to see more from Compher, I'd like to see just a bit more from Mitts next year offensviely.

 

[lionsDen]

Solid showing so far from Mitts. His consistency is the only thing he needs to work on. But consistency is what separates the cream from the crop in the NHL.

Consistency is the reason he's been more of a 60 point guy instead of 70-80, even when scoring has gone up. It's why he was struggling to add offense in the playoffs, but then was one of their better producers in the last few games. It's why he has a great shot one day, but misses the net, or shoots into the chest on other opportunities. Consistency is why he's great at faceoffs one minute and then loses a couple key draws clean.

It even applies to things he's good at like defense. Overall he was arguably the Avs best defensive forward, but he's also had multiple defensive breakdowns that led to goals in his brief tenure so far.

Ok trade so far IMO. Avs miss a lot of what Byram brought both offensively, defensively, and in transition. Mitts added some of what they missed in two way play and offensive support from the 2nd line.

But he's got more to offer that I hope he can, and working on his shot, and finding that consistency are the keys. Needs to continue working on his skating too. It's not bad, but in order to take another step in his game with this team, it may need another gear. Hope he focuses on that in the offseason.

I think the saying is “ Separate the wheat from the chaff”.

I agree 22’s defense ability to attack and drive offense from the back end is partly what made that team special