Proposal: Avalanche - Blue Jackets

[Viqsi]

but those are really only playoff issues

Please. The fact that it keeps coming up during the playoffs doesn't make it a playoffs issue.

 

[Bone Breaker]

from a pure "we dont want to deal with this problem anymore" perspective, I think a deal around Laine and Nuke makes sense. Nuke is signed for less and has more term (not sure if the later is actually a good thing in this context but still) so Columbus would have sweeten it a bit. more likely by retaining some salary.

 

[Viqsi]

from a pure "we dont want to deal with this problem anymore" perspective, I think a deal around Laine and Nuke makes sense. Nuke is signed for less and has more term (not sure if the later is actually a good thing in this context but still) so Columbus would have sweeten it a bit. more likely by retaining some salary.

Holy hell, hon. Literally five posts above yours.

Learn. To. Read.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

One thing that would help this thread is removing the topic of Cole Sillinger from the discussion.

 

[John Mandalorian]

One thing that would help this thread is removing the topic of Cole Sillinger from the discussion.

Why? Colorado's part of this is already pure risk.

 

[Viqsi]

Why? Colorado's part of this is already pure risk.

Because that's double-dipping. The risk is why Laine is available at the rates he is. We're not going to throw in Sillinger to compensate even more for said risk.

 

[The Don Hughes]

Pretty sure Hughes will kick the tires at the very least.
Habs have the room as far as the cap goes and can tolerate it for 2 years.
If anything he could offer a combo of Harris/Strubble +some salary like a Dvorak/Armia and a pick. Can even put that pick conditional on games played as high as a 2nd.
Low risk with good potential, but I don't see him paying really more than that.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Why? Colorado's part of this is already pure risk.

With apologies, I don’t care. Mitigate the risk by changing the offer instead of trying to work Sillinger into it. Or have the adds be a literal throw-in, not an asset with standalone value.

I say all this because CBJ is not likely interested in moving Sillinger and his inclusion is what’s making the arrival at fair value more difficult.

 

[McJedi]

Because that's double-dipping. The risk is why Laine is available at the rates he is. We're not going to throw in Sillinger to compensate even more for said risk.

Fine. Then remove Girard or any picks the Avs add in order to balance value out.

Laine at $8.7mm AAV is available entirely because he’s got no value. None. Zero at that AAV.

Retained at 50%, someone probably rolls the dice Laine can become a player you’d want, but even then it’s risky.

 

[McJedi]

With apologies, I don’t care. Mitigate the risk by changing the offer instead of trying to work Sillinger into it. Or have the adds be a literal throw-in, not an asset with standalone value.

I say all this because CBJ is not likely interested in moving Sillinger and his inclusion is what’s making the arrival at fair value more difficult.

Laine at 50% retained may return future considerations.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Laine at 50% retained may return future considerations.

I mean that certainly removes Sillinger from the discussion.

 

[VT]

Colorado does not need Laine. Absolutely.
And we don't need Girard.

 

[Xoggz22]

Laine at 50% retained may return future considerations.

They usually don't include 1st round picks and prospects as future considerations

 

[Viqsi]

Laine at 50% retained may return future considerations.

Oh, I can see this aging very well indeed.

 

[Patagonia]

CBJ fans debatably believe it's lopsided, but why does the AVs make this deal?

AVs, is cap related with only $4.8M available. Problematic scenarios with Laine reduces $1.95M against the cap. Risks Landy ($7M) and Nuke ($6.125M possibly November) returning. They add a player missing on average 25+ season last 3 years, to jettison roster players. Potential issues:

1. One player returns. Roster player traded. Sillinger remains in the Minors and cannot replace Girard.
2. Two players return. Worst possibility resulting in a fire sale. 2+ Roster players need to be traded. Sillinger remains in the Minors and cannot replace Girard.
3. No player returns. Best possibility and returns to averaging point per game and Sillinger could join the roster in a 3rd/4th line role. Girard replaced with a cheap 5/6 DMan.

Irrespective on hoping for the best scenario, next season Rants expects to resign for approx. $2M increase. Drouin needs to be resigned and accepted a 1 year deal for $1.5M below MV. Losing Girard to add another surplus Winger does not benefit the AVs.

It might seem overwhelming for the AVs, but they don't really benefit. I just don't see why either team makes this deal.

 

[squashmaple]

CBJ fans debatably believe it's lopsided, but why does the AVs make this deal?

AVs, is cap related with only $4.8M available. Problematic scenarios with Laine reduces $1.95M against the cap. Risks Landy ($7M) and Nuke ($6.125M possibly November) returning. They add a player missing on average 25+ season last 3 years, to jettison roster players. Potential issues:

1. One player returns. Roster player traded. Sillinger remains in the Minors and cannot replace Girard.
2. Two players return. Worst possibility resulting in a fire sale. 2+ Roster players need to be traded. Sillinger remains in the Minors and cannot replace Girard.
3. No player returns. Best possibility and returns to averaging point per game and Sillinger could join the roster in a 3rd/4th line role. Girard replaced with a cheap 5/6 DMan.

Irrespective on hoping for the best scenario, next season Rants expects to resign for approx. $2M increase. Drouin needs to be resigned and accepted a 1 year deal for $1.5M below MV. Losing Girard to add another surplus Winger does not benefit the AVs.

It might seem overwhelming for the AVs, but they don't really benefit. I just don't see why either team makes this deal.

Not to pick a nit, but Sillinger is now a fourth-year player, an RFA, and no longer has waiver options. If he’s only good enough for the Minors for the Avs, he’s playing for another team that claimed him for waivers.

 

[Patagonia]

Not to pick a nit, but Sillinger is now a fourth-year player, an RFA, and no longer has waiver options. If he’s only good enough for the Minors for the Avs, he’s playing for another team that claimed him for waivers.

CBJ could easily find another team to beat the AVs offer.

Laine was never rumoured for the AVs due to their Cap situation. Sillinger is restricted by having Laine + Landy/Nuke contracts. The more likely scenario is dumping salaries ie. Girard for Sillinger.

 

[squashmaple]

CBJ could easily find another team to beat the AVs offer.

Laine was never rumoured for the AVs due to their Cap situation. Sillinger is restricted by having Laine + Landy/Nuke contracts. The more likely scenario is dumping salaries ie. Girard for Sillinger.

…okay? That has nothing to do with anything I said, which was responding to your first two bulletpoints, which were both impossible for the reason I stated. I don’t know why I engaged in the first place.

To your last sentence, not sure how it’s more likely for Columbus to pay them a young cheap cost-controlled RFA center for a redundant small 2LD cap dump.

 

[McJedi]

Oh, I can see this aging very well indeed.

Like how Laine’s career has aged well? Dude peaked on his ELC. He’s fallen off a cliff the past few years before going to rehab and walking away from the sport.

His value has never been lower than it is today. Dude is definitely negative value at his current AAV of $8.7mm. That’s not in dispute.

Does he have value at 50% retained? I think no, maybe name recognition will get a few of the old school GMs excited. But that’s doubtful. He’s a lazy, defensively inept ex-goal scorer coming off a long stint in the players assistance program. Really sells itself doesn’t it.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Like how Laine’s career has aged well? Dude peaked on his ELC. He’s fallen off a cliff the past few years before going to rehab and walking away from the sport.

His value has never been lower than it is today. Dude is definitely negative value at his current AAV of $8.7mm. That’s not in dispute.

Does he have value at 50% retained? I think no, maybe name recognition will get a few of the old school GMs excited. But that’s doubtful. He’s a lazy, defensively inept ex-goal scorer coming off a long stint in the players assistance program. Really sells itself doesn’t it.

Last 3 seasons, 117 points in 129 games. Definitely falling off a cliff.

I wont bother reading the rest, you're clearly misinformed [MOD]

 

[Viqsi]

Like how Laine’s career has aged well? Dude peaked on his ELC. He’s fallen off a cliff the past few years before going to rehab and walking away from the sport.

His value has never been lower than it is today. Dude is definitely negative value at his current AAV of $8.7mm. That’s not in dispute.

Does he have value at 50% retained? I think no, maybe name recognition will get a few of the old school GMs excited. But that’s doubtful. He’s a lazy, defensively inept ex-goal scorer coming off a long stint in the players assistance program. Really sells itself doesn’t it.

Hold on a second. Back up. When did we start talking about someone other than Patrick Laine?

 

[Xoggz22]

Like how Laine’s career has aged well? Dude peaked on his ELC. He’s fallen off a cliff the past few years before going to rehab and walking away from the sport.

His value has never been lower than it is today. Dude is definitely negative value at his current AAV of $8.7mm. That’s not in dispute.

Does he have value at 50% retained? I think no, maybe name recognition will get a few of the old school GMs excited. But that’s doubtful. He’s a lazy, defensively inept ex-goal scorer coming off a long stint in the players assistance program. Really sells itself doesn’t it.

Doubling down... there's a strategy we haven't seen in a while Cotton.

 

[Ararana]

I'm not willing to put a hole in the Avs top four defense to take a chance on another questionable forward who at his best is a massive defensive liability. That's how you end up like the Edmonton Oilers.

Plus the Avs already have too many forwards when one of Landeskog or Nuke comes back this season.

 

[AslanRH]

Please. The fact that it keeps coming up during the playoffs doesn't make it a playoffs issue.

Fair, but that wasn't really the target of the post

 

[Doggy]

Sillinger is not a top 6 center...Sillinger is a bottom 6 center but it’s not long too promising for him with at center with Monahan, Jenner, Fantilli, Voronkov maybe even Kent Johnson all fighting for 3 line spots down the middle at center.

If Fantilli, Voronkov or even Kent Johnson can’t get their shit together then the 3C is Sillinger’s to lose at worst he could end up at 4C...

I’m not a...Columbus Blue Jackets fan...

...Columbus are most likely tanking...

Denton Mateychuk should be starting in the AHL, it would be unwise for Waddell to let his rookie defenseman get caved in on a shit team, does nothing....

A) You are starting to sound bitter because nobody likes your proposal
B) You missed the obvious in your comment up top: Silly is most likely a middle six center. I think he's a low end 2C or very solid 3C: a 200' player with some sandpaper to his game and a pretty good shot. Likely a 20-20-40 guy...maybe even a little more
C) Columbus is DEFINITELY NOT TANKING. They didn't tank last season and they are not tanking this season
D) I think it's obvious you are not a CBJ fan, you don't really have a grip on what they need or want
---one of the likely goals of adding Monahan was so Jenner could return to wing. He's unlikely competing with Silly for 3C.
---KJ91's skill set is more Gaudreau than C material, I think we see him focus on the wing
---I'd say Vronk and Silly are competing for that 3C spot and I like both of those guys there...going to be interesting in camp.

In the end, I personally think other than moving Laine, GMDW is done making moves this off-season. He added a 1C to play with Gaudreau and added a veteran D-Man. He's moving Laine to do right by a player that has asked for a change of scenery. But in the end, I think DW wants to see what he has in all his young guys with a new coaching staff before he makes any final decisions about how this team is built going forward. IOW, wanna make an offer for Laine, go for it, but I don't think GMDW is looking to move Silly, KJ91, Vronk, Marchy, Chinny, Jiricek, Mateychuk or any other young developing kid on his roster.