Auston Matthews or Jack Eichel?

[Voodoo Child]

The 3.25 difference in pay is almost an Alex Kerfoot or about 2 mil less than a solid 2-3D or a difference making top six forward.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Comes down to playmaking. IMO, Matthews isn't an elite playmaker. He's an elite goal scorer who is solid as a playmaker, but doesn't have the elite playmaking of the other top tier centers.

Hence why when he's on, he can look dominant as a one man show, but doesn't really dominate in terms of making everyone else on his line dangerous. It's also why when he's *not* scoring goals, he's almost invisible whereas these other top tier players can go 1 goal in 10 games and still be dominant because they're racking up assists.

Playmaking and skating/puck carrying. Eichel was an absolute horse with the puck through the neutral zone, with the ability to blow the game wide open. Matthews just doesn't have that kind game breaking ability, which becomes increasingly important as things get tighter.

Maybe, maybe not. At the same time....Matthews sucks because he only scored 40 goals while at the same time, Eichel may not ever score 40 goals in his career.

Thing is, if you don't have 22 games in last playoffs for Eichel, this discussion is probably insanity......22 games shouldn't have that much of an impact. Eichel has 6 goals and 26 points in the playoffs and is 1 year older than Matthews who has 22 goals and 44 points in the playoffs. I totally get that he did better in last year's playoffs than Matthews has yet in his career, but I think Matthews takes WAY MORE heat than he should for not getting the team success in the playoffs. He's part of it for sure, but the HUGE gap between the heat he gets vs. the credit Eichel gets for that one playoff year is a bit much. Does Eichel not take any blame for not being able to make the playoffs his entire career up until last year?

But you do have those games, games where Eichel elevated his game to a level we haven't quite seen from Matthews IMO. It has nothing to do with goals/point totals and everything to do with just how completely Eichel was dominating the game on every inch of ice.

 

[Toby91ca]

But you do have those games, games where Eichel elevated his game to a level we haven't quite seen from Matthews IMO. It has nothing to do with goals/point totals and everything to do with just how completely Eichel was dominating the game on every inch of ice.

Yes, but many, many players have shown that type of play over small periods of their careers....my point was 22 games should not carry the weight it seems to carry with a lot of people.

 

[TS Quint]

Vegas got Eichel and a Cup. Leafs got Matthews and won a single playoff round in 7 years.

Eichel + the cap savings is proven better than Matthews and excuses.

But I would like my favorite TEAM to win Championships. Matthews fans are happy with his INDIVIDUAL awards. I’m not telling anyone how to enjoy hockey. Im happy Matthews fans are happy.

 

[TS Quint]

Maybe, maybe not. At the same time....Matthews sucks because he only scored 40 goals while at the same time, Eichel may not ever score 40 goals in his career.

Thing is, if you don't have 22 games in last playoffs for Eichel, this discussion is probably insanity......22 games shouldn't have that much of an impact. Eichel has 6 goals and 26 points in the playoffs and is 1 year older than Matthews who has 22 goals and 44 points in the playoffs. I totally get that he did better in last year's playoffs than Matthews has yet in his career, but I think Matthews takes WAY MORE heat than he should for not getting the team success in the playoffs. He's part of it for sure, but the HUGE gap between the heat he gets vs. the credit Eichel gets for that one playoff year is a bit much. Does Eichel not take any blame for not being able to make the playoffs his entire career up until last year?

What heat does Matthews get? Babcock got heat, Kadri got heat, Andersen got heat, even Marner got heat, even last year it was the Leafs media cry of “ where are the bottom 6, it shouldn’t be on the small Handful of players who take up an overwhelming amount of the cap”. But Matthews? Not on his worst day does he get heat out of Toronto. Just look at this thread full of Leafs fans defending him. Where is the heat coming from you? There’s none.

Yes, but many, many players have shown that type of play over small periods of their careers....my point was 22 games should not carry the weight it seems to carry with a lot of people.

What weight are you putting into 7 years of Matthews in the playoffs. 3/7 years he’s made it to a point per game and the team has one series. That’s some substantial weight isn’t it?

 

[Toby91ca]

What heat does Matthews get? Babcock got heat, Kadri got heat, Andersen got heat, even Marner got heat, even last year it was the Leafs media cry of “ where are the bottom 6, it shouldn’t be on the small Handful of players who take up an overwhelming amount of the cap”. But Matthews? Not on his worst day does he get heat out of Toronto. Just look at this thread full of Leafs fans defending him. Where is the heat coming from you? There’s none.


What weight are you putting into 7 years of Matthews in the playoffs. 3/7 years he’s made it to a point per game and the team has one series. That’s some substantial weight isn’t it?

Matthews has 44pts in 50 playoff games, is that great by his standards? Of course not. Is it terrible to the point he should be seen as a playoff choker? Of course not, but that's what the general population seems to think.

I don't know what to say if you don't think Matthews takes a ton of heat....of course there are people going to come defend him...same will be true for any player, doesn't mean there aren't just as many if not more against him. I'm not a Leaf fan to be clear.

 

[authentic]

Playmaking and skating/puck carrying. Eichel was an absolute horse with the puck through the neutral zone, with the ability to blow the game wide open. Matthews just doesn't have that kind game breaking ability, which becomes increasingly important as things get tighter.


But you do have those games, games where Eichel elevated his game to a level we haven't quite seen from Matthews IMO. It has nothing to do with goals/point totals and everything to do with just how completely Eichel was dominating the game on every inch of ice.

Eichel has never been as dominant as Matthews was against Tampa playing with one wrist.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Eichel has never been as dominant as Matthews was against Tampa playing with one wrist.

Are you serious? Eichel dismantled the Stars and Panthers. Looked like he was toying with them at times.

 

[TS Quint]

Matthews has 44pts in 50 playoff games, is that great by his standards? Of course not. Is it terrible to the point he should be seen as a playoff choker? Of course not, but that's what the general population seems to think.

I don't know what to say if you don't think Matthews takes a ton of heat....of course there are people going to come defend him...same will be true for any player, doesn't mean there aren't just as many if not more against him. I'm not a Leaf fan to be clear.

He's a playoff choker because his production drops like a rock in the playoffs. You act like we are talking about a $5m player here. No one is saying he isn't a good player. At his pay grade in a cap league the the bar is set a little higher than the average player. And that's where you take the lesser player in Eichel plus the cap savings in this poll.

You just have to look at where the Leafs owned media puts the blame. It's never Matthews.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Eichel has never been as dominant as Matthews was against Tampa playing with one wrist.

Try again?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Eichel has never been as dominant as Matthews was against Tampa playing with one wrist.

Lol Matthews is always hurt

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Are you serious? Eichel dismantled the Stars and Panthers. Looked like he was toying with them at times.

you mean when he had 0 goals and 4 assist in 6 games vs the stars? He did have 8 assist in 5 games vs the Panthers which is impressive but no goals.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

I wonder if people picking Eichel over Matthews due to playoffs would pick Rielly over say a guy like Josi or Hamilton for the same reason?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

you mean when he had 0 goals and 4 assist in 6 games vs the stars?

Did you bother watching the series? He created a ridiculous amount of scoring chances. He was an absolute horse in all three zones.

Matthews isn't capable of dominating the ice like this:

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Did you bother watching the series? He created a ridiculous amount of scoring chances. He was an absolute horse in all three zones.

Matthews isn't capable of dominating the ice like this:

- Matthews vs Tampa Bay
xGF%/60 - 2.81
SCF/60 - 34.89
- Eichel vs Dallas
xGF%/60 - 2.83
SCF/60 - 30.04

Matthews may not have been as flashy through the neutral zone but it doesn't mean he was any less effective.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

- Matthews vs Tampa Bay
xGF%/60 - 2.81
SCF/60 - 34.89
- Eichel vs Dallas
xGF%/60 - 2.83
SCF/60 - 30.04

Matthews may not have been as flashy through the neutral zone but it doesn't mean he was any less effective.

Imagine matthews got 0 goals In a series win, these same posters would be roasting the shit out of him

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

People are for sure going to bring up Eichel's playoff run being better than anything Matthews has done in the postseason.

While that's probably true, It doesnt at all make up for Matthews being better when you compare his seasons from 19 to 25 to Eichel's. Matthews outproduced him in 5 out of those 7 seasons, and the other 2 he still outpaced Eichel. That's not even considering the edge in defensive play and the massive gap in goalscoring. 400+ game sample size > 22 game sample size.

I mean... It technically does make up for it when you consider:

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Imagine matthews got 0 goals In a series win, these same posters would be roasting the shit out of him

I think the problem with this argument is it depends on what type of player a player is. Matthews is a goal scorer, so of course he's going to get roasted if he doesn't do the one thing he's supposedly elite at.

In this particular case, Eichel's more of a playmaker/puck transporter. So as long as he's doing his job in that area (ie. setting up chances and getting assists), his goal scoring is less important. In comparison, Matthews is not an elite playmaker so chances are he won't be making up for the lack of goal scoring by setting up his linemates all series long.

So it's not a direct apples to apples comparison to conclude that if Player A scores 0 goals and Player B scores 0 goals, their impact (or lack thereof) is the exact same due to play style and what they excel at.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

I think the problem with this argument is it depends on what type of player a player is. Matthews is a goal scorer, so of course he's going to get roasted if he doesn't do the one thing he's supposedly elite at.

In this particular case, Eichel's more of a playmaker/puck transporter. So as long as he's doing his job in that area (ie. setting up chances and getting assists), his goal scoring is less important. In comparison, Matthews is not an elite playmaker so chances are he won't be making up for the lack of goal scoring by setting up his linemates all series long.

So it's not a direct apples to apples comparison to conclude that if Player A scores 0 goals and Player B scores 0 goals, their impact (or lack thereof) is the exact same due to play style and what they excel at.

If AM got 4 goals with no assists they would rip him apart.

 

[TS Quint]

If AM got 4 goals with no assists they would rip him apart.

Then he should take less money. Sorry he gets paid at the top of the NHL scale and doesn’t perform like it When it matters most.

 

[Toby91ca]

The 3.25 difference in pay is almost an Alex Kerfoot or about 2 mil less than a solid 2-3D or a difference making top six forward.

Ok, but it's $1.6M this year, $3.25 in 2024/25 and 2025/26, but not sure what the difference will be in 2026/27 and 2027/28...Eichel might be making the same or more by then and if he's not, then he's not likely at the level to bother comparing (assuming Matthews is still at his current or better level of play).

 

[Toby91ca]

Lol Matthews is always hurt

The absolutely hilarious part of that comment is that we are comparing Matthews and Eichel.....comment is that Matthews is always hurt.....but Matthews has played 481 games in his career and Eichel....having played in the league for 1 more season, as he's older, somehow only has 476 games played in his career.....weird.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Factoring in contracts, Eichel. Matthews is better, but not by so much that the contracts don’t matter. Eichel also fell off due to injuries. At one point, he was the better player. If he can get back to that, he could be better again, although I doubt he’ll have the better career.

when exactly was Eichel the better player throughout his career? only one season he out produced matthews and he only got 2 more points that season but played 7 more games. so when was Eichel considered better?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Vegas got Eichel and a Cup. Leafs got Matthews and won a single playoff round in 7 years.

Eichel + the cap savings is proven better than Matthews and excuses.

But I would like my favorite TEAM to win Championships. Matthews fans are happy with his INDIVIDUAL awards. I’m not telling anyone how to enjoy hockey. Im happy Matthews fans are happy.

till things dont go Eichels way and his bad attitude comes out. took him what 2-3 games to start rolling his eyes at the score when he first got traded to Vegas. just funny how so many people here have extremely short or selective memories.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

The absolutely hilarious part of that comment is that we are comparing Matthews and Eichel.....comment is that Matthews is always hurt.....but Matthews has played 481 games in his career and Eichel....having played in the league for 1 more season, as he's older, somehow only has 476 games played in his career.....weird.

Whenever Matthews has a dip in production, it’s always due to injury.

Which leads to my comment that Matthews must always be hurt.