Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[Stephen]

I'm sure there were multiple factors, but it really felt like the tide shifted after Dubas mentioned in his press conference the possibility of trading off the core.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that Marner only gets moved to a team looking for a major shakeup - for all his issues, he's still 90+ point winger who plays in all situations, is creative as hell, and in his prime. Plus, acquiring him last year would have meant to possible playoff runs for the acquiring team, and the potential to lock him in for another 8 years. That's a decade of him on your team.

Have to think that would have brought a few teams to the table with open interest, not just ones looking for a major shake up.

Dubas was fired for Succession style boardroom maneuvering. Shanahan’s press conference detailed the break blow by blow, whether you believe or side with one or the other.

It had nothing to do with being a year ahead of schedule to move out a Big 4 guy and Shanahan coming down to overrule him.

Also there were reports that Toronto had shopped William Nylander for a top D but the return wasn’t commensurate with the value they placed on him.

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas was fired for Succession style boardroom maneuvering. Shanahan’s press conference detailed the break blow by blow, whether you believe or side with one or the other.

It had nothing to do with being a year ahead of schedule to move out a Big 4 guy and Shanahan coming down to overrule him.

Also there were reports that Toronto had shopped William Nylander for a top D but the return wasn’t commensurate with the value they placed on him.

Interesting that we had heard that rumour but none regarding Marner who's time to move freely was also running out.

 

[Stephen]

Interesting that we had heard that rumour but none regarding Marner who's time to move freely was also running out.

All is to say it’s not like Dubas was let go for philosophical differences in roster construction .

 

[Tak7]

Interesting that we had heard that rumour but none regarding Marner who's time to move freely was also running out.

It's strange that they dangled Nylander for a D, didn't like the returns, and then instead of dangling Marner, they simply said "nope, John Klingberg is the answer".

Swapping Nylander for Marner, even if it was simply to gauge interest, would have been the most logical move. Feels like an organization that very delicately navigates all things pertaining to Marner, which is why I don't have much confidence in their ability to force him through his NMC this summer.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Also there were reports that Toronto had shopped William Nylander for a top D but the return wasn’t commensurate with the value they placed on him.

Apparently they couldn't find a taker because he wasn't signed long term.

But Shanahan called them all up and promised them they were safe. So either Shanahan is a liar. Or Treliving tried to trade Nylander without Shanahan's consent.

The spin on this team would make you dizzy if you hadn't been riden hard so many times before.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Apparently they couldn't find a taker because he wasn't signed long term.

But Shanahan called them all up and promised them they were safe. So either Shanahan is a liar. Or Treliving tried to trade Nylander without Shanahan's consent.

The spin on this team would make you dizzy if you hadn't been riden hard so many times before.

More like no team would give up a #1D.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

No, ignoring what has been going on for 8 years is why we can’t have playoff success.
But I'm sure the 2nd GM, 3rd coach, raises for all core members and 15th round of depth players will make the difference.

Yeah, I know the Leafs playoff history, I'm not retconing history to make it all Mitch's fault because that's for submentals.

Give Mitch away to get worse players on crappy contracts with that cap room, cool, great idea bro...

Last year JT Miller was one of the 'worst contracts in the league' he couldn't play defense and a team would never make the playoffs let alone compete with him on the ice.

This year a new narrative. Ditto for Brock Boeser

Had the Nucks be reactionary they would have made their team worse.

You want the Leafs to decline with reactionary moves, I don't. Whatever.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

More like no team would give up a #1D.

But you don't deny he was being shopped after Shanahan told them all they would be safe....

 

[Trapper]

Yeah, I know the Leafs playoff history, I'm not retconing history to make it all Mitch's fault because that's for submentals.

Give Mitch away to get worse players on crappy contracts with that cap room, cool, great idea bro...

Last year JT Miller was one of the 'worst contracts in the league' he couldn't play defense and a team would never make the playoffs let alone compete with him on the ice.

This year a new narrative. Ditto for Brock Boeser

Had the Nucks be reactionary they would have made their team worse.

You want the Leafs to decline with reactionary moves, I don't. Whatever.

Canucks traded Horvat away, retooled and got further than we ever have.
Reactionary? We’ve been in a coma for 8 years. How much worse could it be getting your lunch handed to you every spring?
It took us 7 tries to win a round and follow that up with getting kicked out in the first round again. You don’t have a very high bar. You have to incline first.

 

[Apotheosis]

Yawns, Peterson had a bad playoff so the Nucks should retain 50% of his contract and offer him for Hyman who had a good playoff.

The level on analysis on this site. This is where intelligent discourse goes to die.

Muh media narrative, let's all be slaves to them.

Cope more. Highest paid in the league and no outstanding playoff performances to show for it. Stop making excuses for an underachiever when it matters most.

 

[Confucius]

Dubas was fired for Succession style boardroom maneuvering. Shanahan’s press conference detailed the break blow by blow, whether you believe or side with one or the other.

It had nothing to do with being a year ahead of schedule to move out a Big 4 guy and Shanahan coming down to overrule him.

Also there were reports that Toronto had shopped William Nylander for a top D but the return wasn’t commensurate with the value they placed on him.

How could it be, we valued Nylander more than the highest paid Dman in the league.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It's strange that they dangled Nylander for a D, didn't like the returns, and then instead of dangling Marner, they simply said "nope, John Klingberg is the answer".

Swapping Nylander for Marner, even if it was simply to gauge interest, would have been the most logical move. Feels like an organization that very delicately navigates all things pertaining to Marner, which is why I don't have much confidence in their ability to force him through his NMC this summer.

It may have been largely the timing. Mitch's NMC kicked in July 1, so there was a very short window to try. Willy didn't have one until after the extension was signed.

 

[keonsbitterness]

But you don't deny he was being shopped after Shanahan told them all they would be safe....

I don't see a contradiction. There was no extension, so the Leafs had to eventually explore options.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

How could it be, we valued Nylander more than the highest paid Dman in the league.

Yes but they changed their minds completely after 37 regular season games that nobody even remembers anymore.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

Cope more. Highest paid in the league and no outstanding playoff performances to show for it. Stop making excuses for an underachiever when it matters most.

I'm coping?

He didn't dominate a series so let's scapegoat him and pretend the money would be better spent on another player available on the market.

Am I one of the hicks that is wants Shanny fired and give away a corner stone of a rebuild because Samsonov sucks?

Dude you're on another planet. Stay with the sad sack cyber whiners.

You'll get your wish this summer and this is the beginning of the end of the Leafs a 100 point team.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

Canucks traded Horvat away, retooled and got further than we ever have.
Reactionary? We’ve been in a coma for 8 years. How much worse could it be getting your lunch handed to you every spring?
It took us 7 tries to win a round and follow that up with getting kicked out in the first round again. You don’t have a very high bar. You have to incline first.

Horvat stand in line for Mitch's autograph...

8 years of no goaltending, a nepotism hire coach, not one half decent defensemen not named Morgan. Endless soft wingers and mismanagement of the cap to triple down on what the core four already bring.

I love the last 8 years are Mitch's fault and not completely useless 5 million dollar players like Brodie and Bertuzzi, and these are the 'capfriendly' players people want instead of Mitch...

Can we criticize players that suck if they make 5 million? Or 3.5 in Sammy who is maybe the softest goaltender since Alan Bester?

At what point can we discuss the issues of this team and not just sensationalize lazy narratives.

This is beyond reactionary, this fanbase is just emotionally stunted.

 

[MSZ]

Is Paul posting on this forum? Holysmoke

 

[Trapper]

Is Paul posting on this forum? Holysmoke

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I love the last 8 years are Mitch's fault

Hold up.

We are looking forward, not backward.

You are missing the situation.

The team needs change. The Dubas plan of AM WN JT MM as a core HAS failed.

Marner is the core guy who doesn't have a long term deal. So he's the one to go. It's that simple. It's also a good plan. A tiny regular season darling who can't shoot will never translate into the playoffs. The leafs PICKED Nylander OVER Marner.

Tre picked Nylander.

Over Marner.

For the Future.

It's about TEAM building now. Not hoarding "good" players to the detriment of the overall team. We need Marner's cap space, not to mention we CANNOT afford Marner's comedy level overpay. He's max 8AAV on a cup team. But we WILL NEVER BE a cup team with him.

Bye Mitch.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Canucks traded Horvat away, retooled and got further than we ever have.
Reactionary? We’ve been in a coma for 8 years. How much worse could it be getting your lunch handed to you every spring?
It took us 7 tries to win a round and follow that up with getting kicked out in the first round again. You don’t have a very high bar. You have to incline first.

Just remember, you're talking to a new account who claims that "I've had like 15 accounts here man". If true I'm sure that those account names were similar to "I Heart Mitchy", "Mitchy R Us", or "Rocket Security".

 

[HamiltonNHL]

"Rocket Security".

indeed.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

What has to be said is this:

If we had McDavid and not Matthews, I think Marner would be alot more effective in the post season.

McDavid drives play. McDavid is a setup machine. McDavid opens up ICE for teammates. McDavid is an elite passer. McDavid controls the play. Matthews doesnt.

The combo of
MM - can't shoot, non-contact hockey, elite passer that REQUIRES time and space not available in the playoffs.

AM - below average passer for his AAV, cannot zone entry, cannot carry the puck through the neutral zone, amazing shooter that requires time and space not available in the playoffs.

as you can imagine, AM + MM is a combo that just doesnt work because you just cover AM and prevent a shot from him and you have 24 AAV doing nothing.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

What has to be said is this:

If we had McDavid and not Matthews, I think Marner would be alot more effective in the post season.

McDavid drives play. McDavid is a setup machine. McDavid opens up ICE for teammates. McDavid is an elite passer. McDavid controls the play. Matthews doesnt.

The combo of
MM - can't shoot, non-contact hockey, elite passer that REQUIRES time and space not available in the playoffs.

AM - below average passer for his AAV, cannot zone entry, cannot carry the puck through the neutral zone, amazing shooter that requires time and space not available in the playoffs.

as you can imagine, AM + MM is a combo that just doesnt work because you just cover AM and prevent a shot from him and you have 24 AAV doing nothing.

I think Matthews CAN do zone entries and go hard to the net IF HE WANTS TO, but doing that stuff is hard work, and Matty likes things easy.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Watching the Oilers stars, sure glad we pay this guy the most money in the league!

Draisaitl on a 13 game point streak. Hyman with 12 goals. Matthews has never even put up 12 points in a single run lol.

I hate this team

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I think Matthews CAN do zone entries and go hard to the net IF HE WANTS TO, but doing that stuff is hard work, and Matty likes things easy.

He's too slow.
And his skate with the puck speed is terrible.
and so is his stickhandling.

He doesn't zone entry very often, because it's not that successful.

Nylander is elite in this department. Tavares is LOL. And Marner is average (below his pay grade).