Auston Matthews Discussion Thread

[zeke]

PP TOI:

McDavid 211:30 (+43.5%)
Matthews 147:24

Draisaitl 214:09 (+38.5%)
Marner 154:40

 

[Wafflewhipper]

PP TOI:

McDavid 211:30 (+43.5%)
Matthews 147:24

Draisaitl 214:09 (+38.5%)
Marner 154:40

Nice bud. That’s a significant difference. The Oil get more pp opportunity per game also. (As a team) Personally i would take Matthews/Marner every day over the Oil duo. I have said there is not much difference for them this year as our two matured their game.

If we match up against them in the Playoffs it’s a simple strategy in concept. Stay out of the box and put a shutdown/Shadow line on McDavid. He is that dangerous.

So take away his powerplay minutes and time/space and we have a better chance. The two of them are lethal on the powerplay for the oilers.

 

[Stephen]

Not saying there is a penalty. I’m pointing out we are better 5vs5. You would never know it is that close in even strength points or that our pair out score them. Mainly the thinking is don’t take penalties against them and we look to have a edge in a series possibly.
Just a observation is all. Not something you will ever hear pointed out on sports media. Maybe it needs a big bold letter thread

I think it's a good sign for the future. If we found a great PP QB that made the plumbing on the PP work the way it could, Matthews and Marner would feast on special teams numbers. We can't get a Makar obviously, but when you watch the Colorado Avalanche play the umbrella and the puck distribution to both wings is crisp and clean and the point guy has a bomb accurate shot, those numbers will inflate. Maybe that could be Sandin.

But yeah they still need to get there in terms of having a consistently great man advantage.

 

[WilyStyless03SHYla]

Playoff Matthews bout to go God mode, LOL , hopefully we can get some fans in there too to liven things up

 

[Stephen]

Matthews has been dancing lately. When you compare him to a few other big skilled men around the league, very few guys that size can move around with the agility in tight like that or have that spontaneous creativity on the cycle. Barkov has some unreal skills individually but seems to default to a relatively simpler straight forward game like a Mats Sundin most of the time, whereas Draisaitl seems to just play an extremely basic hockey like a prime Joe Thornton. Mikko Rantanen is very creative and obviously he has the ability to cycle and play off of some unreal players like Makar and Mackinnon as a unit.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I think it's a good sign for the future. If we found a great PP QB that made the plumbing on the PP work the way it could, Matthews and Marner would feast on special teams numbers. We can't get a Makar obviously, but when you watch the Colorado Avalanche play the umbrella and the puck distribution to both wings is crisp and clean and the point guy has a bomb accurate shot, those numbers will inflate. Maybe that could be Sandin.

But yeah they still need to get there in terms of having a consistently great man advantage.

Oh i think it definitely is Sandin and I don’t like to say it to loud. The man can handle the minutes. I call M.Rielly clunky on the powerplay quarterback. Sandin is smooth and Fluid. Not panicking to control pucks.
Actually I’ll just say it. I think Rielly sucks on the powerplay. Sandin looks smooth and does it right. Snaps a puck quickly on net through screens etc.
It’s Sandin for me also. There are likely plenty posters/fans liking Sandin on the #1 unit.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Lots of good posts in this thread i would like if i had my button

 

[Throw More Waffles]

PP TOI:

McDavid 211:30 (+43.5%)
Matthews 147:24

Draisaitl 214:09 (+38.5%)
Marner 154:40

Connar McDavid: 8.1 ppp/60 (+55.7%)
Matthews: 5.29 ppp/60

Draisaitl: 7.28ppp/60 (+33.3%)
Marner: 5.43 ppp/60

Don't you always use p/60 when it suits your purpose?

Why can't we just be happy that Matthews and Marner are great players without manipulating stats to make them appear the "best in the world"? As a tandem, they are currently many steps below the oilers tandem.

 

[zeke]

Connar McDavid: 8.1 ppp/60 (+55.7%)
Matthews: 5.29 ppp/60

Draisaitl: 7.28ppp/60 (+33.3%)
Marner: 5.43 ppp/60

Don't you always use p/60 when it suits your purpose?

Why can't we just be happy that Matthews and Marner are great players without manipulating stats to make them appear the "best in the world"? As a tandem, they are currently many steps below the oilers tandem.

All those "many steps" contained entirely within the PP.

 

[Stephen]

Oh i think it definitely is Sandin and I don’t like to say it to loud. The man can handle the minutes. I call M.Rielly clunky on the powerplay quarterback. Sandin is smooth and Fluid. Not panicking to control pucks.
Actually I’ll just say it. I think Rielly sucks on the powerplay. Sandin looks smooth and does it right. Snaps a puck quickly on net through screens etc.
It’s Sandin for me also. There are likely plenty posters/fans liking Sandin on the #1 unit.

Sandin definitely has the kind of moves and instincts you'd associate with a classic high IQ offensive defenseman. A lot more smoothness and control and heads up, low panic threshold and walks the line on the point so comfortably, but we just have to be patient and see how he develops over time.

When people say Rielly is a good puckmoving defenseman, I'm not so sure. I actually think he's more of a specific counter rusher at his best and sort of does so more as a forward. His build and skating tendencies actually reminds me a bit of a Nathan Mackinnon than most defensemen in the game.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

60 goal scorer in season has only happened twice the last 2 decades (Ovie and Stamkos). It would be quite the feat for Matthews that might tip the voting scales towards him.

But 144 points has happened ZERO times in the past 2 decades. And nobody has even been anywhere close.

I mean... come one guys.

I realize Matthews is having an incredible season. But McDavid is clearly the hart winner this year. There isn't any semblance of a debate here.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Connar McDavid: 8.1 ppp/60 (+55.7%)
Matthews: 5.29 ppp/60

Draisaitl: 7.28ppp/60 (+33.3%)
Marner: 5.43 ppp/60

Don't you always use p/60 when it suits your purpose?

Why can't we just be happy that Matthews and Marner are great players without manipulating stats to make them appear the "best in the world"? As a tandem, they are currently many steps below the oilers tandem.

That’s not what he was doing. It was just a added number to crunching just how much better McDavid and Draisaitl utilize building their scoring on the powerplay. They are lethal on the powerplay no doubt.

I had posted previously that our two are producing just as much even strength almost ( 1 point less) but 11 more goals 5v5. We definitely have a matching pair for sure. Defensively we have improved in conjunction and that’s most important to me actually.

Our guys are never going to get the amount of powerplay time because we use two good units. It can’t be ignored that even strength we are equal.

Personally i like our two better defensively for some reasons

 

[Throw More Waffles]

All those "many steps" contained entirely within the PP.

Yes, McDrai being far FAR better than Matthews/Marner on the PP is what sets them apart. Significantly sets them apart.

And it's NOT just minutes. As I showed, McDrai have MUCH higher ppp/60 stats.

 

[zeke]

Let me just double check this again.

Since Keefe took over and started using them like superstars for the first time:

Matthews: 93gms, ES 18:25, 45gl/72pt pace ---PP 3:09, 16gl/27pt pace
McDavid: 89gms, ES 17:56, 32gl/77pt pace --- PP 4:11, 11gl/50pt pace

Marner: 91gms, ES 17:25, 23gl/70pt pace --- PP 3:09, 4gl/28pt pace
Draisaitl: 96gms, ES 17:42, 21gl/65pt pace --- PP 4:10, 21gl/48pt pace

 

[Mickey Marner]

Matthews has been dancing lately. When you compare him to a few other big skilled men around the league, very few guys that size can move around with the agility in tight like that or have that spontaneous creativity on the cycle. Barkov has some unreal skills individually but seems to default to a relatively simpler straight forward game like a Mats Sundin most of the time, whereas Draisaitl seems to just play an extremely basic hockey like a prime Joe Thornton. Mikko Rantanen is very creative and obviously he has the ability to cycle and play off of some unreal players like Makar and Mackinnon as a unit.

Matthews has very unique movements. His skating is somewhat reminiscent of Forsberg with his quicks cuts and strength on the puck. Obviously very different players though. I've never really seen someone who's finishing can look quite as clean and automatic as Matthews. The movements are so polished that the goals seem like a formality sometimes.

Some examples.

 

[Petrus]

But 144 points has happened ZERO times in the past 2 decades. And nobody has even been anywhere close.

I mean... come one guys.

I realize Matthews is having an incredible season. But McDavid is clearly the hart winner this year. There isn't any semblance of a debate here.

You might be attributing something to me in error.

If you go back to my replies and exchanges I do say, McDavid should easily win the Hart this year.

 

[Stephen]

That’s not what he was doing. It was just a added number to crunching just how much better McDavid and Draisaitl utilize building their scoring on the powerplay. They are lethal on the powerplay no doubt.

I had posted previously that our two are producing just as much even strength almost ( 1 point less) but 11 more goals 5v5. We definitely have a matching pair for sure. Defensively we have improved in conjunction and that’s most important to me actually.

Our guys are never going to get the amount of powerplay time because we use two good units. It can’t be ignored that even strength we are equal.

Personally i like our two better defensively for some reasons

It's a misleading stat insinuating if the Leafs players were given more PP time, naturally their numbers would level out to the Edmonton duo's levels, or that the Edmonton guys just stats pad on oodles of special teams. May be so, but being great on the powerplay is a special skill too, and I don't think it's a time factor at the moment is what's holding Matthews and Marner back. Like we discussed above, if Sandin becomes that natural PP QB you'll see puck distribution improve on that unit and the numbers will start coming more consistently.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That’s not what he was doing. It was just a added number to crunching just how much better McDavid and Draisaitl utilize building their scoring on the powerplay. They are lethal on the powerplay no doubt.

I had posted previously that our two are producing just as much even strength almost ( 1 point less) but 11 more goals 5v5. We definitely have a matching pair for sure. Defensively we have improved in conjunction and that’s most important to me actually.

Our guys are never going to get the amount of powerplay time because we use two good units. It can’t be ignored that even strength we are equal.

Personally i like our two better defensively for some reasons

Imagine this in reverse. Imagine Matthews ppp/60 was 55% higher than McDavids. Imagine Marner's ppp/60 was 33% higher than Drai's. Do you think you would be (lol) downplaying that difference? Or do you think you would be focusing on that as much as possible?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You might be attributing something to me in error.

If you go back to my replies and exchanges I do say, McDavid should easily win the Hart this year.

Sounded like you were saying that Matthews pacing for 60 goals might "tip the scale" when it comes to hart trophy votes, because it's only happened twice in the past decade. I responded by saying 144 points has happened zero times in the past decade.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I'm not sure where.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Sandin definitely has the kind of moves and instincts you'd associate with a classic high IQ offensive defenseman. A lot more smoothness and control and heads up, low panic threshold and walks the line on the point so comfortably, but we just have to be patient and see how he develops over time.

When people say Rielly is a good puckmoving defenseman, I'm not so sure. I actually think he's more of a specific counter rusher at his best and sort of does so more as a forward. His build and skating tendencies actually reminds me a bit of a Nathan Mackinnon than most defensemen in the game.

I see all of that too. I watch Rielly do something two or three games ago and i had talk to the TV minute ha. Rielly skated up rhe right side (with some good speed) turned sideways for the drop pass or lateral whichever because both were available, the defense cheated to the middle slightly and Morgs skated the puck in to the zone sideways. I was yelling yes,yes i like that ha.

Keefe needs to activate him to carry the puck through the neutral zone and play the game that utilizes his assets by skating the puck in for us. A couple short years ago Rielly was the best transition,puck moving defenseman in the league. It’s gone with the horrible drop pass skill killing atrocity to our game.

Morgan Rielly should not be moving up the ice thinking drop pass. That’s entirely my personal thinking but i think Keefe has killed Rielly’s game significantly. Well the coaching approach how to get pucks through has is what i really mean.

Sandin is good. In defense of Morgs, he’s being underutilized in that skating ability you see and i see. Keefe has to figure out he’s dumming down Rielly’s potential. Change it for playoffs possibly.

If Mo gets his mojo back for playoffs i would like it. I don’t think he fits Keefer’s system ideally or that Keefers system fits his best pkaying style ideally.

Them two need to have a talk

 

[Nooodles]

Oh my, why did you do this. I almost forgot what was it like with fans.....

 

[Twine Tickler]

Why can't we just be happy that Matthews and Marner are great players without manipulating stats to make them appear the "best in the world"? As a tandem, they are currently many steps below the oilers tandem.

Ya I agree. As much as I love Mitch and Auston, they are definitely duo #2 in the league behind McDrai. I wouldn't go as far as saying many steps behind though. As @zeke mentioned in his response, the major difference in the efficacy of McDrai vs. Mitch/Auston has been their ability to finish on the PP. The 5v5 numbers are very comparable. But the PP is 100% part of the game. The same people on here who are throwing shade at McDavid's year based on inflated numbers from a potent PP are also the ones saying Ovi won an MVP while not winning the scoring race. As if Ovi didn't snipe 50% of his goals from the same spot on the PP that year lol. Stats can be manipulated for or against any player in the league. For me, I just think it's unbelievable to even have a player, arguably 2, that can be used in the same sentence as McDavid. As a life long Leaf fan, I could not be more happy/appreciative of what Mitch and Auston have done this year. And when it comes to the hart voting, they both deserve votes, but they will more than likely get beat by the unstoppable force that was McDavid this year.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Imagine this in reverse. Imagine Matthews ppp/60 was 55% higher than McDavids. Imagine Marner's ppp/60 was 33% higher than Drai's. Do you think you would be (lol) downplaying that difference? Or do you think you would be focusing on that as much as possible?

I wasn’t downplaying the difference,i was saying they get more powerplay time and take full advantage of it. Also that we score more goals than them 5v5.

Great players the Oil have there. I take nothing away from them. Mostly i am expressing that if we get in a series in this playoff that we have to be disciplined to be effective against them.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Oh my, why did you do this. I almost forgot what was it like with fans.....

Hopefully we make it far enough in the playoffs that Matthews can make the fans groan during away games.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

It's a misleading stat insinuating if the Leafs players were given more PP time, naturally their numbers would level out to the Edmonton duo's levels, or that the Edmonton guys just stats pad on oodles of special teams. May be so, but being great on the powerplay is a special skill too, and I don't think it's a time factor at the moment is what's holding Matthews and Marner back. Like we discussed above, if Sandin becomes that natural PP QB you'll see puck distribution improve on that unit and the numbers will start coming more consistently.

I was admiring our 5v5 numbers . Right there with the best in even strength scoring is something i see a edge in too. It’s usually really controllable in that you keep your stick and hands off opponents and won’t get called a cheapie by the refs. I’m focusing on discipline not who runs a better powerplay. Hey i hope our special teams only gets work on the powerplay.

Sandin will take the top unit PPQ i believe. He’s smooth. Keefe and Rielly need to have a talk about getting Mo carrying the puch through much more with speed. This drop pass has become a plague.