News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[Trapper]

No offense but ...

This makes it sound like winning doesn't matter, and contracts don't matter, only having the player in a Leafs jersey matters so you can watch him score goals and be happy.

So are you cheering for the crest on the front, or the name on the back View attachment 711195 when supporting the Leafs?

Is Matthews winning the Rocket Richard as the NHL best goal scorer >> Leafs wining the Stanley Cup?

If Matthews was making $15 mil AAV is that irrelevant, if he is scoring 100 goals in the regular season, but Cap hit coming at the cost of Leafs being out in round #1 of the playoffs are you happy or sad?

Would that put you in the majority or the minority in terms of Leafs fandom?

Do I need to see the same guy score 60 goals while the others never can, or am
I happy with an entire team of guys who can score and we have playoff success.
Matthews scoring is great but I want team success to go with it. If guys around Matthews have to go to make us harder to play against, great. If Matthews has to go because of demands, so be it.

 

[hockeywiz542]

SIMMONS SAYS: Big skilled centres such as Auston Matthews are irreplacable

Everything about the Maple Leafs has to start with Auston Matthews.

torontosun.com

Everything about the Maple Leafs has to start with Auston Matthews.

Getting him signed. Getting him committed to Toronto long-term. Building this next phase of the Maple Leafs around an all-star calibre centre of size.

You don’t win the Stanley Cup without a front-line centre. And you don’t trade away Matthews — or let him walk in free agency — because you can’t replace a player of that calibre.

Colorado won the Cup last year with Nathan MacKinnon. Over the past 10 seasons, Jonathan Toews has won two Cups, as have Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin and Brayden Point. Other Cup-winners include Anze Kopitar along with Nicklas Backstrom and Evgeny Kuznetsov. Big-time centres, all of them.

Without Matthews, the Leafs have nothing resembling a No. 1 centre. And maybe, after the stunning news of Friday, Matthews’ time in Toronto got more complicated when president Brendan Shanahan chose to remove Kyle Dubas as general manager.

Here’s the thing with Matthews: His agent and good friend, Judd Moldaver, is close to Dubas, but even closer to Dubas’ agent and friend, Chris Armstrong. Dubas and Armstrong went to Brock University together. Armstrong and Moldaver worked for IMG in Toronto together and went different ways before ending up at Wasserman Media, an agency that represents Connor McDavid and Matthews, among its largest NHL stars.

How much of the Moldaver-Matthews-Armstrong-Dubas relationship will impact Matthews’ future with the Leafs? That’s impossible to know without a general manager in place, with so much unknown about the Leafs’ immediate front-office circumstance and their most important player.

 

[Menzinger]

No offense but ...

This makes it sound like winning doesn't matter, and contracts don't matter, only having the player in a Leafs jersey matters so you can watch him score goals and be happy.

So are you cheering for the crest on the front, or the name on the back View attachment 711195 when supporting the Leafs?

Is Matthews winning the Rocket Richard as the NHL best goal scorer >> Leafs wining the Stanley Cup?

If Matthews was making $15 mil AAV is that irrelevant, if he is scoring 100 goals in the regular season, but Cap hit coming at the cost of Leafs being out in round #1 of the playoffs are you happy or sad?

Would that put you in the majority or the minority in terms of Leafs fandom?

I think the majority of fans like and cheer for stars and they cheer for the team. From what I see the majority of Leafs fans don't think at all about the connections between contracts and team success, they just like watching their team play.

If you polled the majority of Leafs fans and asked "would you rather have Matthews on the team for 15 million a season or spread the money around 4 less exciting players" most would want Matthews no matter what it costs

Personally I cheer for the crest first, and I also have some favorite players. But earlier I wasn't talking about what I care about - just what I think most fans want.

 

[myleafs]

Dubas probably did a lot of good things but was very reactionary for the most part due to an intransigent position regarding the coach and the core. The Jared McCann situation is a case in point. Takes advantage of Pittsburgh's situation to trade for McCann and then gifts him to Seattle because we have to play Justin Holl too far up the line-up because we don't have the cap for an appropriate top 4 defenceman. If they realized that signing McCann wouldn't work because of the current cap there was no thought to keeping the better player and correcting the cap, it was sacrifice the player to keep the core 4 vision alive.
Keefe is a good coach but once the play-offs start he is always second best to whichever coach is on the other team.

How good can he be if he is always the 2nd best coach in the playoffs every year?

 

[Kiwi]

I think the majority of fans like and cheer for stars and they cheer for the team. From what I see the majority of Leafs fans don't think at all about the connections between contracts and team success, they just like watching their team play.

If you polled the majority of Leafs fans and asked "would you rather have Matthews on the team for 15 million a season or spread the money around 4 less exciting players" most would want Matthews no matter what it costs

Personally I cheer for the crest first, and I also have some favorite players. But earlier I wasn't talking about what I care about - just what I think most fans want.

I want success in the playoffs

If you asked most Leafs fans now that's what they would tell you imo

We've seen these guys do great things in the regular season but now all you seem to see is cool, when do the playoffs start?

We were both around when the team sucked and tanked and I don't think the board was anywhere near as negative as it is right now

This team and players have burned through a lot of good will and i doubt giving Matthews the moon is going to help bring that back

Only playoff success will imo

 

[myleafs]

Being jealous of a team that has missed the playoffs for 12 straight years is weird.



Sure, change the argument because the facts don't fit your narrative.

It can be a bad signing and he took less.

You just don't need to include him in the "fab 4" that are all about the money.

If you have been paying attention and watched some Buffalo games you would understand what he is saying, That team is on the rise with some nice pieces including those 2 stud dmen he referenced.

 

[Mess]

Do I need to see the same guy score 60 goals while the others never can, or am
I happy with an entire team of guys who can score and we have playoff success.
Matthews scoring is great but I want team success to go with it. If guys around Matthews have to go to make us harder to play against, great. If Matthews has to go because of demands, so be it.

Sounds like a Leafs crest fan first and foremost like me kind of guy.

For example: I remember a time from 1981- 1984 (3 seasons) where Leafs Rick Vaive scored 50+ goals in 3 straight season something no other Leafs player has done to his day in team history .. However the team managed but 1 measly playoff game win in a best of 5 series over all those 3 seasons combined. This was not a great and memorable time to be a Leafs fan, but disappointing in fact.

Tell me as a Leaf fan what good does the really do other than it being a complete waste of 3 seasons in support for absolutely no playoff gain?

As a sports fan you cheer for Cups and championships and personal goal scoring feats in a regular season that amount to nothing particularly in non playoff years are so easily forgotten.

Auston Matthews is the closest thing goal scoring wise that Leaf Nation has to a Rick Vaive in our current time.

Auston Matthews recorded 0 goals and 2 assists in 5 games to Florida and Leafs nearly got swept. Does that make Matthews an untouchable and regardless of salary cap consequences a MUST have player for Leafs to have playoff success? He is part of a core group that is 0-7 in playoff years success with 1 playoff round to their name. Something has to change to either build around him at the expense of others or use him to build up the team so that it wins in the playoffs.

 

[BallardEra]

SIMMONS SAYS: Big skilled centres such as Auston Matthews are irreplacable

Everything about the Maple Leafs has to start with Auston Matthews.

torontosun.com

Everything about the Maple Leafs has to start with Auston Matthews.

Getting him signed. Getting him committed to Toronto long-term. Building this next phase of the Maple Leafs around an all-star calibre centre of size.

You don’t win the Stanley Cup without a front-line centre. And you don’t trade away Matthews — or let him walk in free agency — because you can’t replace a player of that calibre.

Colorado won the Cup last year with Nathan MacKinnon. Over the past 10 seasons, Jonathan Toews has won two Cups, as have Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin and Brayden Point. Other Cup-winners include Anze Kopitar along with Nicklas Backstrom and Evgeny Kuznetsov. Big-time centres, all of them.

Without Matthews, the Leafs have nothing resembling a No. 1 centre. And maybe, after the stunning news of Friday, Matthews’ time in Toronto got more complicated when president Brendan Shanahan chose to remove Kyle Dubas as general manager.

Here’s the thing with Matthews: His agent and good friend, Judd Moldaver, is close to Dubas, but even closer to Dubas’ agent and friend, Chris Armstrong. Dubas and Armstrong went to Brock University together. Armstrong and Moldaver worked for IMG in Toronto together and went different ways before ending up at Wasserman Media, an agency that represents Connor McDavid and Matthews, among its largest NHL stars.

How much of the Moldaver-Matthews-Armstrong-Dubas relationship will impact Matthews’ future with the Leafs? That’s impossible to know without a general manager in place, with so much unknown about the Leafs’ immediate front-office circumstance and their most important player.

Does that mean he follows where Dubas goes? I don't think I've ever seen a player go where a GM goes as a motivating factor.

New Leafs GM has to come in and first thing they do is ask Matthews straight up if he wants to be here. He has to prove wanting to be here by committing to sign here before July 1st and then getting that done ASAP.

Any indecisiveness from Matthews and you have to trade him this summer.

 

[myleafs]

And players who didn’t…. Like Tavares…. Do they get a pass?


Take rielly for example…. Every Half decent defense took 9.5…. Nurse. Werenski. Jones.

He took 2 less.

Why weren’t fans easy on hjm

Mostly because he didnt play very good during the season....but his playoffs have been good and my view of him changed with his showing. I would prefer he keep up the good play during the season but if he shows up every playoffs I can probably live with that. I certainly prefer it to lights out during the season and no show shitting the bed when it counts in the playoffs.

 

[myleafs]

I think the majority of fans would be fairly displeased if Matthews goes. Most people don't care about contract stuff

That is not the feeling I get from pretty much everyone I talk to....

 

[myleafs]

There are folks who likely have every detail of the big four contracts memorized - and I think has especially been exacerbated in recent years. I don't remember people being so contract orientated during the Burke years in comparison.

But in the big picture they're an incredibly small minority in the wider Leafs fandom. Most people just want to watch Matthews score goals and be happy with that

Not showing up when it counts or getting the results when it counts, being ragdolled with no response, not sticking up for teamates, all while getting top dollar has def soured me on Matthews and what his worth is, and yes I acknowledge what he does bring to the table but it aint enough in my mind to justify making him the highest paid player in the league and whatever else he wants.

Tkachuk makes 9.5 for 8 yrs....does all the things that Matthews doesnt while still putting up the points.....yes please.

 

[MCR74]

I want success in the playoffs

If you asked most Leafs fans now that's what they would tell you imo

We've seen these guys do great things in the regular season but now all you seem to see is cool, when do the playoffs start?

We were both around when the team sucked and tanked and I don't think the board was anywhere near as negative as it is right now

This team and players have burned through a lot of good will and i doubt giving Matthews the moon is going to help bring that back

Only playoff success will imo

Considering we haven't had playoff success since the Sundin era, it would be a welcome change IMO. From what I can tell with this group, the effort stops as soon as the reguar cheques stop rolling in. That's the impression I get.

 

[myleafs]

Does that mean he follows where Dubas goes? I don't think I've ever seen a player go where a GM goes as a motivating factor.

New Leafs GM has to come in and first thing they do is ask Matthews straight up if he wants to be here. He has to prove wanting to be here by committing to sign here before July 1st and then getting that done ASAP.

Any indecisiveness from Matthews and you have to trade him this summer.

Matthews saying its his intention to stay doesnt give me feely good vibes....it sounds more like what Dubas just did. As long as he gets everything he wants of course he will be happy to stay otherwise I dont see it. Difference is of course Dubas did not have the same kind of leverage though it seems like he thought he did.

 

[Mess]

If you polled the majority of Leafs fans and asked "would you rather have Matthews on the team for 15 million a season or spread the money around 4 less exciting players" most would want Matthews no matter what it costs.

You hit the nail right in the head with this example because it misses the greatest component in why Fans support teams and that is to cheer them on to championships.

What is lost in your example is the end result of picking star player A or 4 X average players B, and that is what if those 4 less exciting players were hoisting a Stanley Cup wearing the Maple Leaf crest?

If you knew Leafs with Matthews would lose in round #1, or Leafs would win the Cup with 4 less exciting players would you change your answer?

Its the diffence between being a Matthews fan and a Leafs fan and which takes precedence.

I think you're reading the room wrong on fan support and the majority of the fans would be on the side of winning and not star player at any price and screw the results .. IMO

That is the perfect Crest on front vs. name recognition label on back test for a fan.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Sounds like a Leafs crest fan first and foremost like me kind of guy.

For example: I remember a time from 1981- 1984 (3 seasons) where Leafs Rick Vaive scored 50+ goals in 3 straight season something no other Leafs player has done to his day in team history .. However the team managed but 1 measly playoff game win in a best of 5 series over all those 3 seasons combined. This was not a great and memorable time to be a Leafs fan, but disappointing in fact.

View attachment 711220

Tell me as a Leaf fan what good does the really do other than it being a complete waste of 3 seasons in support for absolutely no playoff gain?

As a sports fan you cheer for Cups and championships and personal goal scoring feats in a regular season that amount to nothing particularly in non playoff years are so easily forgotten.

Auston Matthews is the closest thing goal scoring wise that Leaf Nation has to a Rick Vaive in our current time.

Auston Matthews recorded 0 goals and 2 assists in 5 games to Florida and Leafs nearly got swept. Does that make Matthews an untouchable and regardless of salary cap consequences a MUST have player for Leafs to have playoff success? He is part of a core group that is 0-7 in playoff years success with 1 playoff round to their name. Something has to change to either build around him at the expense of others or use him to build up the team so that it wins in the playoffs.

the desperation by some in the media and fan base to retain Matthews at all costs is quite frankly pathetic.

 

[Mess]

Personally I cheer for the crest first, and I also have some favorite players. But earlier I wasn't talking about what I care about - just what I think most fans want.

Here is a new question for you.. To test this theory of yours,

You have Phil Kessel as your avatar so you must like him as a favourite player..

During Phil the Thrill's 6 seasons in Toronto the Leafs made the playoffs only 1 time and lost in round #1 to the painful and unforgettable collapse to the Bruins in game #7 when up 4-1 in the 3rd. A nightmare ending to a season that still haunts Leaf fans to this day. Yet it was the highlight of the Kessel playoff era as everything else was "out of playoffs" .

Was that an enjoyable time for you as a Leaf fan because of Kessel's regular season scoring exploits or a tough and dark time as a Leaf fan in history?

I'd predict most fans would side with painful and dark time as a Leaf Fan. Player above Team would have to be the minority position in a fan poll.

 

[thewave]

I don't plan on leaving Toronto. I am just not going to negotiate numbers until I have absolute leverage and control.

If this is the case for any of them just blow it up and get it over with.

 

[desperateblue]

I think the results we see the expansion teams having the last couple years shows that having a team made up of the 6th or 7th best players from 23-25 teams makes for a much more solid all around team.
I’d rather have a consistent even team then top loading 50plus % of our cap to 4 guys.
They tried it and it doesn’t work.
The teams that have success have their top players leaving money on the table if they want to set the bar then ship them to Winnipeg or Columbus

 

[notbias]

They care about it when you're not winning PO rounds.

Florida has 6 million in dead cap... you can win with expensive players... that is basically like Bobrovsky making 16 million and they have 0 in dead cap...

I don't plan on leaving Toronto. I am just not going to negotiate numbers until I have absolute leverage and control.

If this is the case for any of them just blow it up and get it over with.

Not hoping for a rebuild... we did that.

 

[thewave]

Florida has 6 million in dead cap... you can win with expensive players... that is basically like Bobrovsky making 16 million and they have 0 in dead cap...



Not hoping for a rebuild... we did that.

Ya we rebuilt and weasel face destroyed the whole thing with NMC lining up at the same time.

 

[notbias]

Ya we rebuilt and weasel face destroyed the whole thing with NMC lining up at the same time.

You need to look around the league if you think those are rare.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Leafs Lunch talks Dubas' tenure and Keefe's future

TSN

May 20, 2023

TSN Hockey Insider Chris Johnston joins Leafs Lunch to share his thoughts on Kyle Dubas' tenure in Toronto, explain why he thinks it's likely that head coach Sheldon Keefe won't return, discuss if this could affect Auston Matthews re-signing with the Leafs, and more.

 

[The Apologist]

Here is a new question for you.. To test this theory of yours,

View attachment 711240

You have Phil Kessel as your avatar so you must like him as a favourite player..

During Phil the Thrill's 6 seasons in Toronto the Leafs made the playoffs only 1 time and lost in round #1 to the painful and unforgettable collapse to the Bruins in game #7 when up 4-1 in the 3rd. A nightmare ending to a season that still haunts Leaf fans to this day. Yet it was the highlight of the Kessel playoff era as everything else was "out of playoffs" .

Was that an enjoyable time for you as a Leaf fan because of Kessel's regular season scoring exploits or a tough and dark time as a Leaf fan in history?

the desperation by some in the media and fan base to retain Matthews at all costs is quite frankly pathetic.

The desperation of others to deal out best players 'just because' is also kinda pathetic. Every single year the same people come out with the doom and gloom predictions.

Remember when Kadri wasn't re-signing? And if he did it was gonna be like 7-8m? Remember when we had to deal Nylander because there was no way he was getting less than 8m? Remember when we had to deal Rielly despite being like 4th best in the league because he was gonna get 9m as an FA and there was no way he was re-signing? Jesus Christ, we have what might be the best pure goal scorer currently in the league, a year removed from being MVP, he plays a 200 ft game, hits, blocks shots, and is only 25 years old. He basically put us on his back through round one and had a million shots in round two while still hitting, blocking and doing everything else. There is no sign he wants out, but there is a subsection of this fan base clamoring to get him out the door as quickly as possible 'just in case'.

Like, what is wrong with you? What is it you hope to get from any player coming in to replace an Auston Matthews?

 

[Menzinger]

Here is a new question for you.. To test this theory of yours,

View attachment 711240

You have Phil Kessel as your avatar so you must like him as a favourite player..

During Phil the Thrill's 6 seasons in Toronto the Leafs made the playoffs only 1 time and lost in round #1 to the painful and unforgettable collapse to the Bruins in game #7 when up 4-1 in the 3rd. A nightmare ending to a season that still haunts Leaf fans to this day. Yet it was the highlight of the Kessel playoff era as everything else was "out of playoffs" .

Was that an enjoyable time for you as a Leaf fan because of Kessel's regular season scoring exploits or a tough and dark time as a Leaf fan in history?

I'd predict most fans would side with painful and dark time as a Leaf Fan. Player above Team would have to be the minority position in a fan poll.

You're being a wee bit pedantic here Mess

I was disappointed the Leafs never saw team success during the Kessel years, but thought he was a great player nonetheless.

Did you never enjoy seeing guys like Sundin, Sittler or Gilmour play for the Leafs even though they never won a cup?

 

[Mess]

You're being a wee bit pedantic here Mess

I was disappointed the Leafs never saw team success during the Kessel years, but thought he was a great player nonetheless.

Did you never enjoy seeing guys like Sundin, Sittler or Gilmour play for the Leafs even though they never won a cup?

Sure but players come and go all the time but the crest remains forever over the decades.

My favourite Leaf Wendel Clark got traded for Mats Sundin in fact and that deal was made to attempt more team success. Wendel and Dougie had a pair of final 4 appearances in the 1990's as did Sundin Era after that when they were gone.

You're kind of moving the goal posts of the origianl discussion as it wasn't about having and keeping star players at any cost .. Keseel as a player was never the issue it was the result, In fact Kessel had just signed a new 8 year by $8 mil deal and then after only 1 season Shanahan came in and they immediately moved him out with 7 years remaining on his deal.. That began the new era of drafting Nylander, then Marner then Matthews in 3 straight drafts and its those players you're cheering now and not regretting the loss of Kessel to make it happen. If the Leafs had hung onto the unsuccessful Kessel and Phaneuf etc because they were star players fun to watch then we would have remained unsuccessful and not able to have the 3 amigo's today.

We were just discussing Matthews (kept at any price) as an example, but I suspect you don't want Marner nor Nylander dealt either for the very same reason. However unless you do consider the cap consequences attached to keeping them all moving forward simply because their star players fun to watch then Leafs will become less Cup competitive if when re-signed they eat even more cap % than today.

With a new GM coming in and the Core 4 not finding playoff success its more than likely one of the core 4 might be dealt in an effort to become more Cup competitive or maybe even for cap reasons also.

Its all good because there are no rules to being a fan, and some cheer for players they like, and others cheer in hopes of Cup success and the individual players that achieve that goal a secondary concern.