Attitude adjustment?

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The kids did so much better under the direction and leadership of Lou Lamoriello and his almost military like strict rules and discipline, and under Mike Babcock for the code of conduct, despite them railing against authority and wanting more freedom.

Now there is a country club like mentality, and where GM and Coach are within their own age group and seen more as friends and allies and allowing them to do whatever they want.

The line between management and players has been blurred to the point that there are no more guardrails in place, nor a proper chain of command as to who has the authority and ability to lay down the law and provide that attitude adjustment and provide the much needed missing leadership component.

Without leadership, direction and rules there's only chaos and dysfunctionality and what appears to be a rudderless ship. IMO

In other words, Blue and White Disease, the affliction of lazy entitlement that’s often been used to explain the longest active absence from any post-season success in the NHL.

ALl children need structure and discipline. This new 'progressive' parenting and wokeness gives us...well the clown world we reside in currently. Catering to everyones feelings and participation trophies gets you soft people.
 
Would need a sizable add considering marner despite his flaws is a top 25 player in the game

Doughty@8M + Adrian Kempe

Marner + a small piece

But I think Doughty has an NMC right? And pretty sure from his past comments he doesn't even like Toronto so not sure if he'd want to come here
He didn't say he didn't want to play here just it wasn't a serious consideration. What's left for him in LA? Years of rebuild? Dude wants to win.
 
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That's not saying he never wanted to play here. Stop letting reporters think for you :)
.

Seem to recall an interview where Doughty more or less said he has no desire to play in Toronto.

Well since I don't know the man personally, quotes are all I have to go on. Maybe he feels differently now.
 
.

Seem to recall an interview where Doughty more or less said he has no desire to play in Toronto.

Well since I don't know the man personally, quotes are all I have to go on. Maybe he feels differently now.
That's not his quote though. It's the title of the article.

He said he 'of course I considered it. But it was never a serious consideration' That's a far cry from I have no desire to play there.
 
He didn't say he didn't want to play here just it wasn't a serious consideration. What's left for him in LA? Years of rebuild? Dude wants to win.
I know people wouldn't like dealing marner for Doughty, but Doughty is a proven winner and had a strong year. He's still a quality 1D and can be our Mcdonaugh with better offense and leadership when things are rolling.

Rielly - Doughty will be the best defense pairing I've ever seen as a leaf fan. It will be a top 5 pairing in the league and capable of controlling the tempo of a game with both players having strong puck moving and good skating. You've been a leaf fan much longer than I have (became one in 2011) , so you probably can recall but have the leafs ever had a d-pair better than Rielly - Doughty (on paper, and I'm confident on the ice as well).

Doughty retained down to 8M is a no brain decision, he's worth that for another few years, and we got 3 prime contention years.

Getting Kempe gives us a better version of Leafs Kapanen who can give 45-50 points on the top line and has played the kings puck heavy possession style game.

This is the deal which would piss the living crap out of a lot of young fans, heck I'd have hated it myself if it was made anytime from 2015 to 2020 (despite how good Doughty was back then) simply due to being focused on forwards and offense. I think this could be a deal that pushes us over the top and becomes a Kawhi for DD + deal.

Obviously NBA landscape is way different but we'd be trading a guy who hasn't been able to elevate his game come playoffs for a proven winner and elite player (though Kawhi's equivalent in the NHL would have been if Hedman had a major injury in 2021 and sat out, and then asked for a trade)

I doubt Dubas would ever pull this move. Dubas is going to ride and die with the core 4
 
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Some of the problem has been the older guys they've brought in. Marleau, Thornton and Simmonds seemed more interested in becoming friends with Marner and Matthews. While Tavares, Muzzin, Bogosian and Brodie don't seem like they are vocal leaders. Spezza seems to be a decent leader. Now I don't know if these are correct or not because I don't see what goes on but it sure looks like it.

I think they need to bring a couple of guys that are no nonsense, team first guys and aren't scared to let the younger guys know when they need to step up. It may rub off and if it doesn't then the core may need to be given another look.
 
That's not his quote though. It's the title of the article.

He said he 'of course I considered it. But it was never a serious consideration' That's a far cry from I have no desire to play there.

Ok
If don't give something serious consideration it means I'm not interested in it. But that's just me.
 
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ALl children need structure and discipline. This new 'progressive' parenting and wokeness gives us...well the clown world we reside in currently. Catering to everyones feelings and participation trophies gets you soft people.

Blue and White disease as its called in Toronto, and been around for decades and often creeps to the forefront even when you swap out players.

Brian Burke recognized it but couldn't fix it then, and its back now again in full bloom in this new group of players.

Can Brian Burke cure Leafs’ ‘blue and white disease’?

Brian Burke is scowling. After meeting with him a half dozen times in recent weeks, I’ve learned this is the default expression worn by the president and general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It is his game face, his first impression, his warning to the outside world. Brian Burke scowls and you know he means business.

Then Burke starts talking about something he calls “blue and white disease.” And suddenly, as a lifelong Leafs fan, I question my devotion.

“The absolute insistence on winning was not here,” says Burke, who put together the Anaheim Ducks club that won the Stanley Cup in 2007. “If you need to be a championship team, success has to be something that’s desirable and attainable at any price. I really believe when I got here that the team had blue and white disease.”

This sickness, he explains, is caused by contradictions and market realities. No matter how poorly the team has played the organization thrived as the NHL’s most lucrative franchise. Win or lose, to be a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs meant you were paid handsomely, in the media and league spotlight, and lionized in the public as a demigod.

We love the Leafs so much they don’t need to love us back.

“I tried when I got here to embarrass them and shame them,” Burke says. “We talked openly about blue and white disease. We talked openly about complacency. I’ve been able to move the needle on every group of athletes I’ve ever had by shaming them and barking at them and publicly challenging them and I didn’t the move the needle on this group one bit". “If you can’t change the tone in the room through the force of your own personality, if you can’t do that, there’s only one thing to do and that’s start putting people on airplanes. So we blew up the room. We basically dynamited the team.”

Link: Can Brian Burke cure Leafs’ ‘blue and white disease’?

Sound familiar?

Leafs blew up the team and started over with Shanahan and his plan in 2014, and with a new batch of young players and now after big fat undeserving contracts have been handed out without earning them, complacency and acceptance of losing annually has returned as has Blue and White disease once again. If this team doesn't find any measurable success in 2021-22 season Ownership is going to push the reset button again and blow this all up, because there is no other cure but a fresh start.
 
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This is all just fan fiction. No one is close enough to the players to know if their attitude is an issue on the team.
Watch Marners season ending presser…….ya it’s a big issue and if nobody from upper management hauled him into their office after that and reemed him a new one and told him you better dam well do something different to prepare for next year, they should be fired
 
Watch Marners season ending presser…….ya it’s a big issue and if nobody from upper management hauled him into their office after that and reemed him a new one and told him you better dam well do something different to prepare for next year, they should be fired

This is all speculation that the players act the same in front of the cameras as they do behind it.

Here is the zero emotion, never swearing, always calculated Tavares.

 
This is all speculation that the players act the same in front of the cameras as they do behind it.

Here is the zero emotion, never swearing, always calculated Tavares.


We only have the evidence of what he said during his presser. Why would he say such an inflammatory thing especially after another crappy playoff series by him and such a shocking choke by the team……..unless he meant it?
 
Blue and White disease as its called in Toronto, and been around for decades and often creeps to the forefront even when you swap out players.

Brian Burke recognized it but couldn't fix it then, and its back now again in full bloom in this new group of players.

Can Brian Burke cure Leafs’ ‘blue and white disease’?

Brian Burke is scowling. After meeting with him a half dozen times in recent weeks, I’ve learned this is the default expression worn by the president and general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It is his game face, his first impression, his warning to the outside world. Brian Burke scowls and you know he means business.

Then Burke starts talking about something he calls “blue and white disease.” And suddenly, as a lifelong Leafs fan, I question my devotion.

“The absolute insistence on winning was not here,” says Burke, who put together the Anaheim Ducks club that won the Stanley Cup in 2007. “If you need to be a championship team, success has to be something that’s desirable and attainable at any price. I really believe when I got here that the team had blue and white disease.”

This sickness, he explains, is caused by contradictions and market realities. No matter how poorly the team has played the organization thrived as the NHL’s most lucrative franchise. Win or lose, to be a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs meant you were paid handsomely, in the media and league spotlight, and lionized in the public as a demigod.

We love the Leafs so much they don’t need to love us back.

“I tried when I got here to embarrass them and shame them,” Burke says. “We talked openly about blue and white disease. We talked openly about complacency. I’ve been able to move the needle on every group of athletes I’ve ever had by shaming them and barking at them and publicly challenging them and I didn’t the move the needle on this group one bit". “If you can’t change the tone in the room through the force of your own personality, if you can’t do that, there’s only one thing to do and that’s start putting people on airplanes. So we blew up the room. We basically dynamited the team.”

Link: Can Brian Burke cure Leafs’ ‘blue and white disease’?

Sound familiar?

Leafs blew up the team and started over with Shanahan and his plan in 2014, and with a new batch of young players and now after big fat undeserving contracts have been handed out without earning them, complacency and acceptance of losing annually has returned as has Blue and White disease once again. If this team doesn't find any measurable success in 2021-22 season Ownership is going to push the reset button again and blow this all up, because there is no other cure but a fresh start.

Toronto is a tough maret because the players become ULTRA SUPERSTARS. I joke all the time that we should only draft ugly ppl. Hahaha. It's way to easy to go playboy when you play for the Leafs. And we get a bunch of soft primadonnas that dress like Hansel from Zoolander.

You have to keep a TIGHT leash on kids in this city. It's just too easy to lose the plot and hockey becomes secondary. Mitch and AM are prime examples.
 
Leafs blew up the team and started over with Shanahan and his plan in 2014, and with a new batch of young players and now after big fat undeserving contracts have been handed out without earning them, complacency and acceptance of losing annually has returned as has Blue and White disease once again. If this team doesn't find any measurable success in 2021-22 season Ownership is going to push the reset button again and blow this all up, because there is no other cure but a fresh start.

That's another seven FULL years Shanahan has been here... and nothing.

Another season or two and we are pushing another full decade of futility here.

This current situation is a full-blown fail. It isn't going to get better this upcoming season, in fact it'll likely get worse. Last season was the peak. The plateau. It's downhill from here. Management will all be gone at the end of the upcoming year after the Leafs either fail to make the playoffs or get booted out of another first round.

Tavares and Matthews stay.

Marner, Nylander... they can do whatever they want with these two. The leafs are winning nothing with these two delicate kittens. They're little kids when compared with a winning roster like Tampa. No comparison. Boys vs men.
 
Toronto is a tough maret because the players become ULTRA SUPERSTARS. I joke all the time that we should only draft ugly ppl. Hahaha. It's way to easy to go playboy when you play for the Leafs. And we get a bunch of soft primadonnas that dress like Hansel from Zoolander.

You have to keep a TIGHT leash on kids in this city. It's just too easy to lose the plot and hockey becomes secondary. Mitch and AM are prime examples.

I do legitimately think this is a problem.

In the year leading up to Matthews extension, TSN, Sportsnet, and all the rest were pumping out radio hits, articles, TV hits, etc every other day it seemed saying that Matthews was going to get ~$13-14M on a long-term deal. Similar for Marner, though mostly pumping the ~10-11M+ range.

Just laughable really. I'm confident that if these guys were in virtually any other market, Matthews ends up signing somewhere between 5 years X 9M and 8 years X 10.5M, and Marner ends up between 6 years X 8M and 8 years X 9.5M.

In saying that, while I think the media hyping these guys was certainly a problem, having a rookie GM who completely buckled to pressure didn't help either. Even with the media hype, we should have been able to get these guys signed to better deals, which I think would have helped keep them more grounded too.
 
Now that I am over my anger and disappointment of this past playoff performance, I am wondering who they need to bring in to light a fire under this team. Namely Matthews and Marner (Tavares gets a pass due to injury and Nylander actually showed up). Muzzen alone couldn't get this team going and Tavares supposedly tried to urge the team to win. Fans have been harping on Nylander for a long time, but now the brunt of the fans ire has shifted (and maybe justifiably so). As much as I have been one to say trade Marner, I seriously doubt that will happen. But something needs to be done. Who do the Leafs bring in the offseason to get the young stars motivated? It is definitely not Jumbo Joe and a player like Mark Messier retired a long time ago.
But therein lies the problem! You’re paying Matthews and Marner $22 million and you need to bring in one or more players to motivate them? If that’s the case, a major shakeup needs to happen, starting with management on down to this core.
 
Either they have the fire in their belly or they don't. If we need to hire washed vets making at or near league minimum to stoke the flames for our 11 million dollar players, then they're not 11 million dollar players.
You hit the nail squarely on the head! My thoughts exactly!
 
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The kids did so much better under the direction and leadership of Lou Lamoriello and his almost military like strict rules and discipline, and under Mike Babcock for the code of conduct, despite them railing against authority and wanting more freedom.

Now there is a country club like mentality, and where GM and Coach are within their own age group and seen more as friends and allies and allowing them to do whatever they want.

The line between management and players has been blurred to the point that there are no more guardrails in place, nor a proper chain of command as to who has the authority and ability to lay down the law and provide that attitude adjustment and provide the much needed missing leadership component.

Without leadership, direction and rules there's only chaos and dysfunctionality and what appears to be a rudderless ship. IMO

In other words, Blue and White Disease, the affliction of lazy entitlement that’s often been used to explain the longest active absence from any post-season success in the NHL.
Excellent points! How else could one explain Thornton playing every game as well as being on PP1, or Simmonds not sitting out, or Nylander and even Tavares at times not being on PP1 and receiving less ice time?
It seems pretty clear that 2 certain players are calling the shots. The inmates are running the asylum.
 
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