Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

[zeke]

you can give credit to whoever you like , if you believe another GM wouldn't have had success taking over a team with Mathews/Marner/Nylander/Kadri/Rielly/Andy plus a few other solid depth pieces like Brown/Hyman then your entitled to it

I know Lou didn't have any, even when those elite players were virtually free.

 

[hotpaws]

I know Lou didn't have any, even when those elite players were virtually free.

yup , i can still remember you saying Gramps blew it by not winning the cup in Mathews/Marners rookie season , lol

funny how you don't hold Dubas to the same standard for some reason when he didn't bring home the cup when he had M and M for free in their 3rd season

 

[zeke]

yup , i can still remember you saying Gramps blew it by not winning the cup in Mathews/Marners rookie season

funny how you don't hold Dubas to the same standard for some reason when he didn't bring home the cup when he had M and M for free in their 3rd season

The only one holding them to different standards is yous guys.

 

[Leaf Fans]

What team did Chayka inherit? A 105 point team with a matthews, marner and Nylander level talents and loads of cap space all while being on a team that attracts ufas?

If dubas took over the coyotes in 2016 after they just had a 78 point season with their best players being oel and max domi, I don't think he would have a good record either.

In fact, you give chayka the team dubas inherited and I'd bet we have at least one measly series win by now.

The fact is that dubas inherited one of the best cores I've ever seen and yet has zero playoff success after 4 years. If dubas has accomplished this little with the kind of head start he got, there's very little hope with him taking over a bottom team.

I know you love Chayka even suggesting he should be the GM if Dubas is gone, but they are very different.

 

[keonsbitterness]

If a new GM is hired after this season, how long do I have to wait until I can give him any sort of credit?

Do we need to clear out all Dubas signings and draft picks?
What about the core players Dubas has re-signed and stuck with despite calls for major shake ups. If a new GM sticks with some or all of this core and finds success are we allowed to enjoy?
Is any success tainted if any parts of the team are deemed to be inherited?

I need the record to be set straight. These are confusing times, indeed. And a challenging, brave new world coming for some.

Unless it's expansion, every new hire inherits a team by definition. It becomes their team the second a new GM is hired, and they deserve whatever valid credit/blame/scrutiny anyone wants to give them. Subject to debate, of course.

 

[ALine]

you can give credit to whoever you like , if you believe another GM wouldn't have had success taking over a team with Mathews/Marner/Nylander/Kadri/Rielly/Andy plus a few other solid depth pieces like Brown/Hyman then your entitled to it

Impossible to say with any sort of certainty, whether any one else would have done better. But the fact that you list 3 first line talents( of which is an understatement for 2), which were still developing into the players they are today. and only 1 defensemen, shows that there was still much work to be done. Whose to say the defence is addressed as well as Dubas has done ( or even better). Whose to say we have a young phenom in net or paying Bobrovsky 10 million a year.
It’s not impossible to understand why the 4 biggest talents of your list are still around and why an GM would have done basically the same. Keep those guys and tinker around the periphery.

 

[ALine]

Unless it's expansion, every new hire inherits a team by definition. It becomes their team the second a new GM is hired, and they deserve whatever valid credit/blame/scrutiny anyone wants to give them. Subject to debate, of course.

Subject to debate, indeed. With that post I was more or less going for a bit of a commentary on the never ending back and forth here, with varying levels of validity.

 

[hotpaws]

Impossible to say with any sort of certainty, whether any one else would have done better. But the fact that you list 3 first line talents( of which is an understatement for 2), which were still developing into the players they are today. and only 1 defensemen, shows that there was still much work to be done. Whose to say the defence is addressed as well as Dubas has done ( or even better). Whose to say we have a young phenom in net or paying Bobrovsky 10 million a year.
It’s not impossible to understand why the 4 biggest talents of your list are still around and why an GM would have done basically the same. Keep those guys and tinker around the periphery.

the team he took over had a 105 pts with our stars in the their 2nd season and no GM would have traded Mathews and Marne just like Sid and Geno as well as MvD and Drai were not traded when GM's changed

and who's to say anther GM

-would have wasted 11m on JT who has done nothing to get this team to another level and would have used that money on higher quality support pieces
-kept Kadri or at least added a quality piece by trading him

but hey like i said you can worship Dubie all you want but don't be upset when others judge his performance based on where he started

 

[zeke]

the team he took over had a 105 pts

Thanks to 7 shootout wins and a career year out of the 34yr old backup goalie.

 

[rocketman588]

Thanks to 7 shootout wins and a career year out of the 34yr old backup goalie.

That he then waived and wasn't able to replace for two years....

 

[ALine]

the team he took over had a 105 pts with our stars in the their 2nd season and no GM would have traded Mathews and Marne just like Sid and Geno as well as MvD and Drai were not traded when GM's changed

and who's to say anther GM

-would have wasted 11m on JT who has done nothing to get this team to another level and would have used that money on higher quality support pieces
-kept Kadri or at least added a quality piece by trading him

but hey like i said you can worship Dubie all you want but don't be upset when others judge his performance based on where he started

If liking where we are at, coming into a season after besting that 105 points by 10, makes me ‘worship Dubie’ type I don’t know what to tell ya.
What I can tell you is yes, I’m onboard with the plan that’s clear as day. Ride the Matthews/Marners/Nylanders/Tavares train as far as it takes you, until Matthews gets a new contract. That and a now respectable defence isn’t such a bad plan to go with and see where it takes you. Re assess when Matthews re-signs. whatever you have to say about goalies I would probably agree with you, but it’s certainly open to debate on the merits of different paths that could have been taken there.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

What team did Chayka inherit? A 105 point team with a matthews, marner and Nylander level talents and loads of cap space all while being on a team that attracts ufas?

If dubas took over the coyotes in 2016 after they just had a 78 point season with their best players being oel and max domi, I don't think he would have a good record either.

In fact, you give chayka the team dubas inherited and I'd bet we have at least one measly series win by now.

The fact is that dubas inherited one of the best cores I've ever seen and yet has zero playoff success after 4 years. If dubas has accomplished this little with the kind of head start he got, there's very little hope with him taking over a bottom team.

Unless Chayka could take steps to prevent key injuries and BS suspensions I doubt it. It's no coincidence that the best playoff performance so far since Dubas took over was when this team was finally fully healthy (or as close as they could be) for one, but had the unfortunate matchup of the reigning back to back Cup Champs.

 

[hotpaws]

If liking where we are at, coming into a season after besting that 105 points by 10, makes me ‘worship Dubie’ type I don’t know what to tell ya.
What I can tell you is yes, I’m onboard with the plan that’s clear as day. Ride the Matthews/Marners/Nylanders/Tavares train as far as it takes you, until Matthews gets a new contract. That and a now respectable defence isn’t such a bad plan to go with and see where it takes you. Re assess when Matthews re-signs. whatever you have to say about goalies I would probably agree with you, but it’s certainly open to debate on the merits of different paths that could have been taken there.

so now all your saying is you like where we're at which is fine but that wasn't what your original point was which was that Dubas should get all the credit like somehow without him as our GM our kids would have regressed or would have been dealt by a different GM

 

[hotpaws]

Unless Chayka could take steps to prevent key injuries and BS suspensions I doubt it. It's no coincidence that the best playoff performance so far since Dubas took over was when this team was finally fully healthy (or as close as they could be) for one, but had the unfortunate matchup of the reigning back to back Cup Champs.

i agree and that's why i don't understand how Dubas didn't get extended after getting mad props in the hand shake line

 

[colchar]

It's almost like many of the articles at the Athletic are written by Captain Obvious.

You mean Jonas Seigel?

 

[Stamkos4life]

Unless Chayka could take steps to prevent key injuries and BS suspensions I doubt it. It's no coincidence that the best playoff performance so far since Dubas took over was when this team was finally fully healthy (or as close as they could be) for one, but had the unfortunate matchup of the reigning back to back Cup Champs.

Odds are that chayka wouldn't trade a 1st+ for an injured foligno.

Just getting the right player instead of foligno may have won us that round.

Also, chances are that we would have different players if chayka was our gm so this whole "unless he could prevent injuries or bs suspensions" doesn't hold much water.

 

[Stamkos4life]

You're just assuming on things now. We get it you dont like Dubas but the body of work is there in the regular season. Chayka doesn't even come close and you are only comparing the two because they are young with analytical backgrounds. Search deeper. The fact is Dubas has had strong regular seasons. Any owner would want that right now and he would get at minimum an AGM if let go.

Assuming?

Do you think if dubas inherited the sub 80 point coyotes he'd have a positive record?

And if chayka inherited the 105 point Leafs team, he would still have a bad record?

Both are false. No assuming required.

You are praising dubas for good regular season stats when he inherited a good regular season team.

Yet you are bashing chayka for a bad record when he inherited a bad team.

You're acting like their records are not based on the team they took over.

When dubas took over, we were a good team who had just lost twice in a row in the first round. Four years later, we are in exactly the same spot. That is not a good gm.

How many more years should we give dubas if we keep failing to win a single round?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Odds are that chayka wouldn't trade a 1st+ for an injured foligno.

Just getting the right player instead of foligno may have won us that round.

Also, chances are that we would have different players if chayka was our gm so this whole "unless he could prevent injuries or bs suspensions" doesn't hold much water.



Your reading comprehension is not good at all.

You really double down on nonsense.

 

[ShaneFalco]

When I think of this team going to.the next level I think of Malgin and Robertson as well as Band-Aid goalies.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Odds are that chayka wouldn't trade a 1st+ for an injured foligno.

Just getting the right player instead of foligno may have won us that round.

Also, chances are that we would have different players if chayka was our gm so this whole "unless he could prevent injuries or bs suspensions" doesn't hold much water.

I hate the Foligno trade more than anyone, but to be fair he was healthy when the deal was made. Of course imo Dubas should’ve taken into account his age, play-style, and recent injury history and shied away from acquiring him but whatever. He was on a “truculence” kick that season.

 

[Menzinger]

The funny thing regarding the Folingo trade fallout is he really was the prototypical top 9 deadline add. Grizzled vet with leadership qualities and known for being tough + strong defensive play. There was a reason why even guys like Steve Simmons were fawning over that move.

I would have preferred if the team had brought in Taylor Hall who ended up going to Boston. Which no doubt would have been met with a chorus of "another soft winger" type critiques

 

[Stamkos4life]

I know you love Chayka even suggesting he should be the GM if Dubas is gone, but they are very different.

Your reading comprehension is subpar if that's what you got from my post.

I hate the Foligno trade more than anyone, but to be fair he was healthy when the deal was made. Of course imo Dubas should’ve taken into account his age, play-style, and recent injury history and shied away from acquiring him but whatever. He was on a “truculence” kick that season.

Nope, the jackets literally sat foligno just before we traded for him due to an injury.

Dubas traded for an already injured foligno.

 

[Stamkos4life]

You really double down on nonsense.

Says the poster who has been repeating the same tired, worn out talking points after every single first round loss.

Dubas has done squat with an amazing team.

Chayka did squat with a bad team.

But to the dubas fan boys, dubas is one of the best gms in the league lmao

I wonder how many more failed seasons it will take for the simps to finally realize how wrong they've been. We're at year 4 of nonsense so hopefully not to much further.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Says the poster who has been repeating the same tired, worn out talking points after every single first round loss.

Dubas has done squat with an amazing team.

Chayka did squat with a bad team.

But to the dubas fan boys, dubas is one of the best gms in the league lmao

I wonder how many more failed seasons it will take for the simps to finally realize how wrong they've been. We're at year 4 of nonsense so hopefully not to much further.

More nonsense.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nope, the jackets literally sat foligno just before we traded for him due to an injury.
Dubas traded for an already injured foligno.

Foligno was healthy when he joined us post-quarantine, and his injury was obtained with us. Players worth a 1st+ (which multiple teams were offering) often sit out the game prior to the deadline, for the record. If he was dealing with anything, it had nothing to do with why he missed games with us.