ATD2025 Draft Thread Part II

[BenchBrawl]

None of you f business I guess? lol

OK

 

[GKJ]

Philadelphia Firebirds select for their back up goaltender: Miikka Kiprusoff. Another personal favorite

 

[tabness]

Dunno if this guy or another will finish off my fourth line but he's more likely to be taken first/at all, so I'll pick Odie Cleghorn, RW, for some goals and some violence

Just missed Lepine in Montreal, feel like they could have worked well together

Always a bit fascinated by the Cleghorn brothers stories and tomfoolery, felt Sprague generally goes a bit too early for me to go for him, so here we go with the diminutive lol

 

[VanIslander]

It took me years of ATDing for Foghorn to not pop into my head when i see Cleghorn.

Am i alone?

 

[tinyzombies]

Flash Hollett

 

[VanIslander]

No, i don't think of Flash Gordon.

Hollett epitomized the average player shining against replacements in WWII, doubling his production and suddenly getting acclaim after he fails the medical ro join the war effort and then going to town against a lot of minor leaguers in '43 to '45. Then the war ends, the NHLers flood back and he immediately performs poorly and is kicked out of the league.

 

[Habsfan18]

Alright, this player was specifically called out in the first draft thread as being somebody who would not be picked. Let's prove that wrong. Hogsmeade selects the heir apparent to the captaincy of my Capitals, Tom Wilson.

Just getting time to comment on this now. For me this is the first real shocker of the draft after the Crosby selection. I didn't see that coming at all. He wasn't even on my radar as a guy who might be drafted as an ATD spare let alone a 4th liner. I guess I viewed him as more of an MLD-level player.

But after taking the time to think it through, I do think it makes sense. You did a solid job selling it and you have watched him a hell of a lot more throughout his career than I have. So I'll defer to you. He won't really provide much offense at this level but looking at his career he definitely has a case as a comparable to other 4th liners in terms of the role he'll be asked to play. Physicality, intimidation, energy.

 

[tinyzombies]

No, i don't think of Flash Gordon.

Hollett epitomized the average player shining against replacements in WWII, doubling his production and suddenly getting acclaim after he fails the medical ro join the war effort and then going to town against a lot of minor leaguers in '43 to '45. Then the war ends, the NHLers flood back and he immediately performs poorly and is kicked out of the league.

He had good prewar years and amazing war years. By the time the first postwar year started he was 34 and dealing with injuries. He was also a pioneer who had all the tools of a modern offensive defenseman - skate, shoot, rush, and move the puck. Also was a decent sized man.

And this: “But Hollett's greatest moment as a Bruin came in 1939, and at the expense of his old team. It was Hollett who scored a crushing goal in the finals against Toronto to give the Bruins the Stanley Cup! Hollett and the Bruins would win another title in 1941.”

And he scored 20 goals in 50 games in a war year- an unthinkable number then for a dman. So it’s not like he didn’t perform when the talent level dropped off. And he was 32 when he did that.

“Hollett's production faltered significantly in 1945-46 as he battled groin and knee injuries and had a falling out with Wings boss xxx. The argument was over Flash's contract. Hollett wanted a $500 a year raise and even retired in the summer of 1946 over the dispute. When he did retire xxx threatened Hollett that he would make sure that Flash would never be placed in Hockey's Hall of Fame. Suspiciously, even years after xxx’s passing, Hollett, one of the games top blue liners of that era is still not in the Hall.

To end the dispute Hollett was traded to the New York Rangers, but the aging veteran opted to retire and attend to his young family rather than move to Manhattan. He returned to the Toronto area, where he continued to play senior hockey. In 1950 he led the Toronto Marlboros to the Allan Cup championship.

When Hollett retired he was the highest scoring defenseman in the history of the National Hockey League. He scored 132 goals and 181 assists for 313 points in 565 NHL games.”

So clearly xxx thought he was hall of fame worthy to even make that threat.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Holy run on backups!

Glad to have Hasek lol Still want a competent backup but having him helps soften the blow of missing out on this run.

{Have to copy-paste rather than quote, due to this infernal system-glitch}

Another thing I've never fully understood is the tendency to pick the best-goalie-available for back-up, rather than someone who has a proven history of being well-suited to that role. There's an instance or two where I can see starter-controversies waiting to happen.

Actually, Hf18, I can see this redounding to your benefit, as examples of this sort of player are still on board.

IMO, having such a player with Hasek is sort of important, as one never knows whether or not he'll wake up this morning not feeling 100%, and won't be able to go for you on account of his finger boo-boo.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

Just getting time to comment on this now. For me this is the first real shocker of the draft after the Crosby selection. I didn't see that coming at all. He wasn't even on my radar as a guy who might be drafted as an ATD spare let alone a 4th liner. I guess I viewed him as more of an MLD-level player.

But after taking the time to think it through, I do think it makes sense. You did a solid job selling it and you have watched him a hell of a lot more throughout his career than I have. So I'll defer to you. He won't really provide much offense at this level but looking at his career he definitely has a case as a comparable to other 4th liners in terms of the role he'll be asked to play. Physicality, intimidation, energy.

It's been a well-kept secret for a long time that Wilson has actually developed into a great player. After seeing so many people clamor for him to be airdropped onto the Four Nations team once the anticipation started building for that first USA game, I knew the secret was finally out.

Elliott Friedman did a 32 Thoughts podcast interview with him in October 2023 where he said he'd heard Wilson was one of the last few guys in contention for a spot on the previous year's Canadian Olympic roster, and Wilson confirmed that to be the case. Ultimately, COVID forced them not to send NHLers to Beijing. He's even better now than he was in 2022, so if Tom keeps up his play from this season into next, there's no question to me that he'll be on the team in Italy...

Oh, and cheeky shorthanded goal last night, right after I picked him. Two shorthanded points in the game in total. Thanks, Tom!

 

[tinyzombies]

{Have to copy-paste rather than quote, due to this infernal system-glitch}

Another thing I've never fully understood is the tendency to pick the best-goalie-available for back-up, rather than someone who has a proven history of being well-suited to that role. There's an instance or two where I can see starter-controversies waiting to happen.

Actually, Hf18, I can see this redounding to your benefit, as examples of this sort of player are still on board.

IMO, having such a player with Hasek is sort of important, as one never knows whether or not he'll wake up this morning not feeling 100%, and won't be able to go for you on account of his finger boo-boo.

I took Fuhr because he had a track record of accepting being part of a tandem with Moog.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Flash Hollett

Looks like @Claude The Fraud was skipped at 12:52 EST and I am up. Pick coming shortly

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Since Joe Simpson seems to be a player that is strong on peak and star power, we'll take a RD that can fill in for him when needed, and who is kind of the opposite, having a long steady career as a #1 D without much star power.

Chicago selects John Carlson, D

- Norris: 2, 4, 5
- Led all NHL Dmen in playoff points in the 2018 Cup Win

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Looks like @Claude The Fraud was skipped at 12:52 EST and I am up. Pick coming shortly

I thought @BenchBrawl said the clock was suspended until noon-time today. Seriously, log-ins have continued to be a reggub for me (and, I'd hazard to guess, a few others)- and I hope that Claude wasn't skipped because he couldn't count on the damn board to work the way it's supposed to work.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I thought @BenchBrawl said the clock was suspended until noon-time today. Seriously, log-ins have continued to be a reggub for me (and, I'd hazard to guess, a few others)- and I hope that Claude wasn't skipped because he couldn't count on the damn board to work the way it's supposed to work.

I'm sorry I didn't catch that it was until noon today. If @Claude The Fraud wants Carlsson he can have him.

@jigglysquishy please hold off on picking until Claude picks or until 6pm EST

 

[ImporterExporter]

{Have to copy-paste rather than quote, due to this infernal system-glitch}

Another thing I've never fully understood is the tendency to pick the best-goalie-available for back-up, rather than someone who has a proven history of being well-suited to that role. There's an instance or two where I can see starter-controversies waiting to happen.

Actually, Hf18, I can see this redounding to your benefit, as examples of this sort of player are still on board.

IMO, having such a player with Hasek is sort of important, as one never knows whether or not he'll wake up this morning not feeling 100%, and won't be able to go for you on account of his finger boo-boo.

This is a great comment and one I thought about when taking Lehman, having already drafted Brodeur. As someone who probably falls into grouping you mention, my mindset is this:

We're drafting teams for a single season + playoff run. In that sense, I think taking the best goalie available makes quite a bit of sense, unless of course there is verifiable evidence that a certain player wouldn't accept backup duties or cause problems for the team if that were the decision made.

This is, from a certain point of view, an all-star tournament, rather than say a franchise hockey manager (well known online GM game) situation where we are building for now only the short term, but long as well.

Generally, drafting someone like Brodeur (as I have now 2 years in a row), gives you the ability to punt a back up until the ass end of the draft.

However, looking at my situation, when I drafted Lehman, the thought process was as follows.

1. He had fallen 150+ picks below where Benedict went. I personally think they're more or less equals if we're discussing who to place as 2nd best G from a very larger era, pre-consolidation. We're talking 40+ years, the largest era of any, in hockey history.

2. In that sense, I felt the value was very strong, given someone had already drafted a back up, and Lehman has a resume that, IMHO, is stronger than anyone taken thereafter, even if the top-60 goaltending project pushes back on my assessment.

I don't find the 3rd best goalie from the past 20 years to have a legitimate argument over someone who can claim being the 2nd best G over the first 40 years of hockey. It just doesn't compute, especially when the best goalie of pre-consolidation (Vezina) was better than any G over the past 20 years, IMHO.

No offense to Connor Hellebuyck or Roberto Luongo, or even Vasilevskiy, What part of their resumes are stronger? Peak? Lehman was the best in the world according to some during his active playing days, and was certainly the best out west for more than a decade. He was certainly right there with Vezina or Benedict when you read the papers from 1912 onward. Longevity? Lehman was in that sort of company for a decade and very well remembered long after retiring. That's a big reason why I wouldn't put someone like Parent over him, a player who has a very large portion of his career tied to 2 single seasons/playoff dominance. Speaking of playoffs, Lehman is certainly much better than his record indicates in terms of playoff win/losses. RB and others did a fantastic job highlighting that over the last few years. I find even that part of his career more convincing than Hellebuyck (not trying to pick on him) or Price. Even Vasilevskiy is largely tied to 3 years, which were amazing (2 cup wins/Smythe in 3 straight trips to finals), but also took place over Covid shortened seasons (2) and his career also shows a couple of stinkers in the mix as well.

3, Punch Imlach had no issues putting a goalie in a workhorse role or tandem.

If you look at his usage of Bower over the 60, 61, and 62 seasons (SC final all 3 seasons, loss, loss, win), Punch played JB 66, 58, and 59 times over the course of a 70 game season. By 1963 you saw Don Simmons start being used in a tandem role, helping keep Bower who was 38 by that time, fresher. So I wasn't concerned about the situation being an issue with the head coach.

4. In the chance of an odd, in season injury to Brodeur, I feel better about having someone with the track record that Lehman does, being able to take on a larger workload. And touching on this being a single season venture, I think it's much easier to sell the idea of someone who started most/all of their career, on taking a back up role here. This is done repeatedly over tournaments like the Olympics, and in some cases has happened in real life, with the all time greats.

5. Team leadership plays a role, IMO, and when I considered Three Rivers standing in that regard, I felt completely at ease taking a workhorse like Lehman and asking him to be ready as a back up. Clapper, Clarke, Richard feel like a very strong trio, with varying styles to help keep a room in harmony.

And honestly, it felt good taking Lehman as he's one of those early era players that I came around on, probably more than any other great from that time period, thanks largely to the work of RB and events like the pre-merger project. I truly don't see a 10+ spot gap between Vezina and Lehman at this point but I understand that's just my perception and can't speak for others directly.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I don't know how Clarke became Cooke in my post above, but I fixed it.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

I drafted Lehman to back up Clint Benedict in OPPF 2021. Agree that there's probably not a lot to choose between them- particularly in the Regular Season. If Lehman gets nicked for anything, it's post-season play... but-

1) Neither you nor I drafted him for what he could do in the post-season. [And even though immaterial, I think too much can be made of early-hockey players and their post-season success or failure, what with the fact that playoff rounds could be home-and-homes and shite.]
2) I still think he's a little bit behind Praying Benny- especially if Mr. Benedict stays on the wagon.

 

[Professor What]

Since Joe Simpson seems to be a player that is strong on peak and star power, we'll take a RD that can fill in for him when needed, and who is kind of the opposite, having a long steady career as a #1 D without much star power.

Chicago selects John Carlson, D

- Norris: 2, 4, 5
- Led all NHL Dmen in playoff points in the 2018 Cup Win

It's been more than 5 hours since the clock resumed, so I assume this pick is now final. We are on a 4hour clock, right?

 

[jigglysquishy]

Regina Capitals select C Phil Goyette

He was primarily known as a defensive specialist for the Habs, he put up strong offensive numbers too. His VsX7 of 75.2 is (I believe) the highest of any remaining defensive centre.

He was buried on the Habs behind HHOFers, but showed he had the skill to be a real gamer.

 

[ImporterExporter]

407. GKJ - Philadelphia Firebirds - Miikka Kiprusoff, G
408. tabness - Seattle Supersoakers - Odie Cleghorn, RW
409. tinyzombies - NDG Monarchs - Flash Hollett, D/F
410. Claude The Fraud - Ottawa 67's - make up pick
411. Hawkey Town 18 - Chicago Shamrocks - John Carlson, D
412. jigglysquishy - Regina Capitals - Phil Goyette, C
413. nabby12 - Torpedo Ust-Kamenogorsk - Jimmy Ward, RW
414. Hitru & Professor What - Gallifrey Tardis - Adam Fox, D
415. ImporterExporter - Three Rivers AC - Joe Nieuwendyk, C
416. rmartin65 - Quebec HC
417. spitsfan24 - Windsor Spitfires
418. Habsfan18 - Baltimore Clippers
419. VanIslander - Savannah Ghost Pirates
420. Voight - Odessa Jackalopes

 

[nabby12]

Jimmy Ward, RW.

 

[Professor What]

We'll take our first spare. We picked him for the first time in ATD history last year, and he added a top 5 Norris finish since then. We add Adam Fox.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Three Rivers is excited to round out their F group w/this clutch 12th man.

He had enough offensive chops to play in that kind of role, in an emergency here, and brings a strong net front presence on the PP, noted often for his ability to take the abuse and deflect incoming shots. He led the league in PP goals in 87-88, and finished top 7, 4 more times subsequently. Not shabby considering the names who were skating around the NHL at the time.

But it's his play in the grey areas, the tough areas, fore/back checking, a renowned ability in the dot over much of his career, of which I've found newspaper evidence to back up that he was one of the best face-off men, certainly from the mid 90's through mid 2000's (posted a handful of them below), that makes him a strong play in a depth role, IMO.

His 99 jaunt to the SC w/Dallas, where he led the playoffs in goals, while managing to net 6 of the GW variety, 2 in OT, is certainly a nice peak for any player at this stage.

I love this quote from Terry Crisp, former coach;

"A dream to coach,'' echoes his old coach, Terry Crisp. "Nieuwy would just come into the room, put on his gear and go out and play. No fuss. No dramatics. You could chew him out, kick his butt. He went out and did the job.''

Welcome to the team,

Joe Nieuwendyk, C

Current Devils need unselfish, team approach Joe Nieuwendyk brought

“In the limited time he was with us, he was one of the most team-oriented guys I’ve ever come across,” Devils general manager Lou Lamoriello told The Star-Ledger today. “Whether he was in the lineup or hurt, all he thought about was the team. His commitment to winning and unselfishness is what I think about.”

“He was a player you tried to get others to be like,” Lamoriello said. “You want players to give up their own identity for the team. Joe would do whatever was asked of him.”

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1114844/index.htm

"If you shot [the puck] at the net and Joe was there, he'd get a piece of it." Nieuwendyk, who last week retired from the Florida Panthers because of chronic back injuries after 20 NHL seasons, was one of the best players in the league at deflecting shots past goaltenders. Since he was an altogether average physical specimen, Nieuwendyk took it upon himself to master the little things; he was also one of the top face-off men around.

"If you don't learn anything from being around him," said Panthers center Stephen Weiss, "then you're in trouble."

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2006/12/07/nhl-panthers-nieuwendyk.html

Nieuwendyk was one of the most respected players of his generation, an elegant forward with a knack for scoring key goals and winning faceoffs.

Most importantly, he was a winner, with three Stanley Cups rings and a gold medal with Team Canada at the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic Winter Games.

"Joe was a great player and a class act and I really enjoyed being around him, both on and off the ice," Dallas Stars forward Mike Modano said.

"As great a player as he was, he was an even better teammate," said retired forward Brett Hull, Nieuwendyk's trigger man with the Stars. "He got along with everybody, was very classy, unbelievably skilled and clutch."

"He brought a different aspect to our team," said New Jersey Devils and Team Canada goaltender Martin Brodeur. "He was one of the great centremen I played with, a leader who blended in right away."

"He was an all-around elite player," said Montreal Canadiens general manager Bob Gainey, Nieuwendyk's boss in Dallas. "He was the kind of player whose accomplishments merit consideration for the Hall of Fame."

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/22/s...k-gives-devils-a-needed-boost-of-offense.html

After only two games since arriving in a trade from Dallas, it is obvious that Nieuwendyk, 35, still has game-breaking talent. Nieuwendyk, who has yet to play with either Petr Sykora or Patrik Elias, gives the Devils a center who can play with finesse and ferocity.

''The transition has been good,'' Nieuwendyk said. ''I like this team's style. It's a style I'm accustomed to. We play defense first and create offense from there. I couldn't ask for a better situation.''

Nieuwendyk, meanwhile, has played with extra sizzle.

''One thing that is instantly noticeable is that we're a better face-off team,'' Constantine said. ''But I don't want to minimize his talents by saying he's just that.''

Nieuwendyk has enough speed to burn when he needs it. He fed Langenbrunner for his goal by setting up behind the net and threading a pass that only Langenbrunner could have reached.

''He's just very good around the net -- great around the net,'' Bobby Holik said.

Fort Worth Star-Telegram​

Fort Worth, Texas • Wed, Nov 5, 1997Page 55

The News and Observer​

Raleigh, North Carolina • Wed, Mar 3, 1999Page 32

Daily Gleaner​

Fredericton, York, New Brunswick, Canada • Tue, Jun 8, 1999Page 19

The Knoxville News-Sentinel​

Knoxville, Tennessee • Tue, Jun 8, 1999Page 29

Fort Worth Star-Telegram​

Fort Worth, Texas • Fri, May 12, 2000Page 61

The Courier-News​

Bridgewater, New Jersey • Fri, Mar 29, 2002Page 86

 

[spitsfan24]

I would normally try to give someone an extended clock at this point in the middle of the night, but I'm about to call it a night and don't want to be skipped myself.

With Tarasov being huge on developing chemistry and synergy among linemates, I can see him wanting to deviate from the line combos I have currently constructed, and reuniting Kharlamov with two players he has real-life chemistry with, in Petrov and Maltsev (although they were at separate times).

This created a problem where Messier or Lach would be pushed to the 3rd line. Instead, I think Tarasov could explore having Messier play alongside Lach, lining up at left wing. His physicality at that position would unequivocally ensure we have a winger not being intimidated by the likes of Howe in our division.

This created another problem where we would have to elevate either Damphousse or Starshinov to the third line alongside Elias and Heatley. Both great fourth liners, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with them on a third line for any prolonged period of time.

With that being said, the Windsor Spitfires are proud to try to fix that by selecting C, Nicklas Backstrom.

His playmaking chops (while still being responsible defensively) provide Elias and Heatley with a better stylistic fit if Tarasov wants to reunite the Soviets on the top line in my opinion.

Will PM next.