ATD2025 Draft Thread Part II

[ChiTownPhilly]

I don't think C1958 saw Reardon play live, but I could be wrong.

Since we have access to so much material, a primary source indicating Reardon was a RD should be the standard before putting back the burden of proof on the GM, IMO. Even if I agree with you that it's very likely that C1958 would have corrected Fyffe if he knew.

Yup- you're right. His birth year post-dates Reardon's retirement. I have two snippets in mind- one direct, one hearsay. The hearsay one is that someone said 'C' saw Teeder Kennedy play- which (if an accurate recollection) would wind up being a kindergarten memory. The other- which I recall specifically, is to the effect that he heard old-timers argue Morenz v. Shore. By the time 'C' was a grade-schooler, Gordie Howe was GORDIE HOWE and any Morenz-Shore argument would no longer have been a credible GOAT argument.

Damn- Reardon had a short career. Then again, he lost three full seasons to WWII, so there's that.

In the past five 18-24 sized draft years, five Defensemen have ALWAYS been taken in the 2nd Round [Chelios, Coffey, Park, Clancy. Pronger]. Sometimes ['19, 25] Larry Robinson slips to the 2nd Round- and gives someone a bargain. This year, Fetisov slipped to the 2nd Round and gave Savannah a Roger Daltrey Bargain.

 

[GKJ]

Philadelphia Firebirds are selecting someone who is very familiar with our town. former Flyers Center, and 1987 Selke Trophy winner, Dave Poulin

 

[rmartin65]

That's like comparing 1970's Soviet hockey to the 1960's.

There was as big a difference between 1962 and 1979 hockey in Moscow as there was between 1892 and 1909 hockey in Montreal and cities thereabouts.

Is this true? I wouldn't call myself particularly knowledgeable on the ins and outs of Soviet hockey, but I can tell you that hockey didn't change over night in the 1890s and 1900s.

Everyone recognizes Bowie's greatness, right? Well, Bowie- who dominated the scoring charts in the 1900s- and MacDougall actually overlapped for one season, the 1899 Stanley Cup Champion Montreal Victorias. Let's look at their scoring totals (including SC games):

Name	Games	Goals	Assists	Points
Bob MacDougall	4	10	2	12
Russell Bowie	9	11.3	.5	11.83

MacDougall bests (essentially ties) Bowie while playing less than half the amount of games.

Lets look at this a little closer. MacDougall plays hist first game of the season on 11 February against Ottawa HC- it's the Victorias' last game before the SC series against the Winnipeg Victorias, it is clearly a warm-up. While it is MacDougall's first game, it is the Victorias' 5th.

Name	Goals	Assists	Points
Bob MacDougall	7.5	1	8.5
Russell Bowie	2	0	2

The second game MacDougall plays is game 1 of the SC series-

Name	Goals	Assists	Points
Bob MacDougall	1	0	1
Russell Bowie	0	0	0

The third game MacDougall plays in is game 2 of the SC series-

Name	Goals	Assists	Points
Bob MacDougall	1.5	1	2.5
Russell Bowie	1	.5	1.5

The fourth (and final) game MacDougall plays in turned out to be the Vics' last game of the year. The Vics lost 1-0 to the Montreal Shamrocks.

Alright, so they played 4 games together that season. Let's look and see what they did over just those four games-

Name	Goals	Assists	Points
Bob MacDougall	10	2	12
Russell Bowie	3	.5	3.5

And you are trying to tell me that an 1890s player isn't in the same ballpark as a player from the 1900s? That there was a "big difference"?

Disclaimer- Bowie was young, 18 I think. So this clearly isn't peak Bowie. And it is a small sample size. But, man, I don't know how someone can look at this data and think there was a huge chasm between the 1890s and 1900s.

And no, I don't think MacDougall was better than Bowie. I mean, it looks like he was in 1899, but over the balance of their careers Bowie was better, and you'll never see me argue otherwise.

But there is just no evidence to suggest that the stars of a previous generation couldn't hang with the stars of the next. To say otherwise runs contrary to the evidence in the game summaries and in the reconstructed stats tables.

 

[tinyzombies]

Yup- you're right. His birth year post-dates Reardon's retirement. I have two snippets in mind- one direct, one hearsay. The hearsay one is that someone said 'C' saw Teeder Kennedy play- which (if an accurate recollection) would wind up being a kindergarten memory. The other- which I recall specifically, is to the effect that he heard old-timers argue Morenz v. Shore. By the time 'C' was a grade-schooler, Gordie Howe was GORDIE HOWE and any Morenz-Shore argument would no longer have been a credible GOAT argument.

Damn- Reardon had a short career. Then again, he lost three full seasons to WWII, so there's that.

In the past five 18-24 sized draft years, five Defensemen have ALWAYS been taken in the 2nd Round [Chelios, Coffey, Park, Clancy. Pronger]. Sometimes ['19, 25] Larry Robinson slips to the 2nd Round- and gives someone a bargain. This year, Fetisov slipped to the 2nd Round and gave Savannah a Roger Daltrey Bargain.

He played with Bouchard (RD), I thought.

 

[Claude The Fraud]

The Ottawa 67's are pleased to welcome, from Montreal, Québec, the coach with the most Jack Adams in his brief case, former policeman and closest coach from the HA ever, Pat Burns.

 

[tinyzombies]

GORDIE DRILLON, to reunite with Apps. 47 VsX7 goals (same as Lafleur).

The Globe and Mail said:
It may surprise you to know that Apps was only one-fifth of a second faster than Gordie Drillon, whose severest critics picture as hockey's stationary forward, rather than a galloping giselle on the blades.

 

[tabness]

I'll pick an Al Arbour/Denis Potvin kinda guy, John Tonelli, LW

From what I've seen and read of the Islanders dynasty, their depth was a huge part of their success and there was a far greater emphasis placed on this contemporaneously than now when much of the talk anachronistically focuses on the big three superstars of Potvin, Bossy, Trottier, with maybe some love also given to the goalie and Arbour himself.

Of that vaunted depth, Tonelli seemed to be a standout, he clearly demonstrated ability to play a bigger scoring role, but of course usually did all the gritty work that he's known for.