ATD 2011 Draft Thread IV

[Leafs Forever]

He's certainly got the added toughness/grit/corner work dimension over those guys, but then they make up for it with the added defense.

Fact is though, Tikanen is close to an offensive-non factor like those guys. His slipping was deserved considering the added teams this draft; Gainey and Carbs should have slipped more (and Provost too I think, though he has more of an offensive touch to be fair), but didn't due to the big name factor, I reckon.

 

[Hedberg]

Did Tikkanen actually slip or was he simply taken too high in the past?

 

[vecens24]

He's certainly got the added toughness/grit/corner work dimension over those guys, but then they make up for it with the added defense.

Fact is though, Tikanen is close to an offensive-non factor like those guys. His slipping was deserved considering the added teams this draft; Gainey and Carbs should have slipped more (and Provost too I think, though he has more of an offensive touch to be fair), but didn't due to the big name factor, I reckon.

I 100% agree with this statement, and that is certainly the reason he fell. But I'm not sure a guy like Tikkanen doesn't have ADDED value in a draft like this. The first lines are going to be more depleted than ever, therefore a guy like Tikkanen shadowing a guy like Bobby Hull really becomes a major weapon if that first line is more depleted than in the past. Anyway, he just fits so perfectly with how my team has been built so far I couldn't resist. Really gonna have to go for some offense though coming up soon.

 

[vecens24]

Did Tikkanen actually slip or was he simply taken too high in the past?

Having looked back I would say the drafts where he was taken around 160-180 were too high, but anywhere from 200 on down I can certainly see.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Around here is where Tikanen should be drafted IMO, this wasn't a slip for him. It was LL who took him too high last year, and he could have had Luc Robitalle to play with Gretzky and Kurri but he went with Tikkanen instead...

 

[seventieslord]

Depends. It might seem so if you focus on offense only, even though he had four more top-12 in goals (and two more top-7 in NHA, and he likely would've had more had he not spent three years fighting the WWI). But he's not there just for goals. He brings size, strength, toughness, defensive prowess and is simply a perfect complement to Clarke and Jackson.

Yes, he brings all that other stuff.

His other top-10 seasons were all pre-merger so aren't comparable to post-merger, you pretty much have to double them.

Still, he's clearly a good scoring line glue guy. I'd like to see a good percentage-based comparison between him, Gillies, and a couple of other offensively underwhelming ATD scoring line staples.

VHS? You know those didnt exist until the late 70s, right?

I thought it was longer. Haha... I don't really know what they used. Ain any case, point still stands, I doubt anyone went back to check if something was really a shot, they probably just called it a shot to be sure.

Will someone please take the guy I'm looking at right now so I don't just based on a pure value standpoint? This guy's only fallen below my spot once going back to ATD 7 and more than half the time was taken before 190. But I really, really don't want him even if he kinda does fit my team hahaha

I was quite excited to read ahead because I know where everyone has been picked, and there were about half a dozen players who fit that exact description.

 

[seventieslord]

I 100% agree with this statement, and that is certainly the reason he fell. But I'm not sure a guy like Tikkanen doesn't have ADDED value in a draft like this. The first lines are going to be more depleted than ever, therefore a guy like Tikkanen shadowing a guy like Bobby Hull really becomes a major weapon if that first line is more depleted than in the past. Anyway, he just fits so perfectly with how my team has been built so far I couldn't resist. Really gonna have to go for some offense though coming up soon.

can a LW effectively shadow a LW?

 

[vecens24]

can a LW effectively shadow a LW?

I honestly just pulled a name out of my ass 70s

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Has the next guy been PM'd?

 

[vecens24]

Has the next guy been PM'd?

Yep.

 

[jarek]

Has the next guy been PM'd?

It's faster to just send the PM if you're not sure..

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I thought it was so obvious that vecens was talking about tikkanen that I almost PMed him to ask him to edit the post.

Did Tikkanen actually slip or was he simply taken too high in the past?

Too high in the past. As we learn more about history, we find more and more guys who keep moving up and easy picks like Tikkanen should slip farther, I think.

Tik brings a fairly unique package (defense + agitation + clutch scoring), so I get why he gets drafted this high. But I personally wouldn't draft him this high. While he's a clutch playoff scorer, he isn't going to do all that much for the offense in the regular season.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

The Swamp Devils are thrilled to add a guy who should be a lock in the Top 150, and might even be a Top 100 talent.

jarek/Boy Wonder, as much as I wish Martinec was leading the offense on my second line, I'm pretty sure he's actually on your team this time.

 

[jarek]

jarek/Boy Wonder, as much as I wish Martinec was leading the offense on my second line, I'm pretty sure he's actually on your team this time.

Yes, I know. I'm going to fix that later.

 

[EagleBelfour]

I don't have time to skim through the draft, I just look at the first post to see who was selected.

My list for #232 is intact.

My list for #237 only had two names: Vladimir Martinec and Gordie Drillon. I should be able to connect in less than 12 hours to make my decision on pick #237.

I need someone to take my list for #232.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

I don't have time to skim through the draft, I just look at the first post to see who was selected.

My list for #232 is intact.

My list for #237 only had two names: Vladimir Martinec and Gordie Drillon. I should be able to connect in less than 12 hours to make my decision on pick #237.

I need someone to take my list for #232.

I'll be around pretty late tonight I can take a list if you want.

 

[papershoes]

D - Lionel Hitchman​

cripes!

...back to the drawing board - pick coming in a few minutes...​

 

[Dreakmur]

Vlociraptor got a stronger top 5 I believe. Mr. Buggs and MadArcand have good ones too.

Strongest top goes to Seventies I think. Maybe Dreakmur when he finalizes it.
Bucyk - Messier - Selänne
Clancy - Day
Esposito

Modo is stronger too. So is TDMMs.

I appreiate that

I'm happy with my team so far, but there is a long way to go.

I've found that there is a lot of luck involved with these drafts. It's not just about being a good judge of talent, but it's about having the right guys fall to the right spots. There are a lot times, I find, where there is a clear best player, but he really doesn't fit into your team. In other cases, you need a certain type of guy, but they all seem to be gone.

Obviously, you've got to be smart with your picks, but sometimes there just never seem to line up right.... and sometimes the stars just line up for you.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Dreak and monster has my two-man list. Good day!

 

[jarek]

I have it too now.

 

[papershoes]

the kenora thistles are pleased to select one of their own...

silas griffis (d)

Silas Seth "Si" Griffis was one of the fastest skaters in the early days of the game despite his relatively large frame. His blazing speed enabled him to dominate as a rover in the seven-man game and as a defender in the modern six-man configuration. He contributed to the Kenora Thistles' Stanley Cup triumph in 1907 and later captained the Vancouver Millionaires to hockey's ultimate prize in 1915.

Griffis joined the Rat Portage entry in the newly formed Manitoba and North West Hockey League in 1902. His play as a rover and cover point contributed significantly to the team's 1902-03 league title. The circuit was reorganized into the Manitoba Senior Hockey League in 1905 with Griffis' Rat Portage squad recognized as the most talented club. It easily won the league title to earn the right to challenge the favoured Ottawa club for the Stanley Cup. The underdogs came out second best in a hotly contested three-game series in which Griffis contributed three goals and was one of the dominant players on the ice.

By 1907, the Rat Portage club had been renamed the Kenora Thistles and was even more talented than previously. They captured the Stanley Cup in a thrilling two-game series with the Montreal Wanderers in January 1907. Brilliant forward Tommy Phillips scored seven of the 12 Kenora goals, while Griffis and xxx xxx rushed the puck with tremendous confidence. This speedy trio was particularly difficult for the Montreal defenders to contain.

Griffis joined the Vancouver Millionaires of the new Pacific Coast Hockey Association in 1912. He was rejuvenated while playing a vital role on the defense and serving as the team's captain. Griffis debuted on the West Coast in outstanding fashion by scoring twice and adding two assists in his new club's opener on January 5, 1912. His leadership was quiet, yet effective, as many of the young Vancouver players looked up to the classy veteran.

 

[jarek]

EB takes Vladimir Kruton.. I mean Krutov.

 

[Leafs Forever]

Here's a guy who fits that Tikanen description:

I'll go with a defenseman who at the lowest spot he's ever gone since at least ATD#6 and a man I am pretty sure is the BDA.

Here's what his scoring amongst NHA defenseman looks like(thanks to jarek for helping me get these):
1st, 2nd, 2nd, T-4th, 5th

He also tied for 1st in D scoring (if I'm noy mistaken) in the ECAHA, which was one of the top league's in the world that time.

Also tied for 2nd in D scoring in the Mantiba Pro League before that, with some big names (including the just-drafted Si- Griffis who he tied with)

He was also quite well-rounded and one badass mofo:

In addition to an exemplary career as a defenseman, He contributed to the development of hockey through his off-ice endeavors. He recorded 85 goals in 167 regular-season games and provided stability and savvy in the defensive zone.

In 1905 he made his first appearance for a major hockey organization by scoring 10 goals in eight games for the Westmount franchise in the Canadian Amateur Hockey League. He rapidly earned the distinction of being one of the top rushing defensemen in the game.

The following year he skated for Brandon of the Manitoba Hockey League. His play attracted the attention of the Kenora Thistles, who worked out a loan agreement with Brandon in time for their Stanley Cup challenge against the Montreal Wanderers in January 1907. During the two-game set, he received numerous ovations from the Montreal crowd. Although he didn't score, he made a number of quality offensive rushes that contributed to Kenora's Stanley Cup win. A year later, hiss services were purchased by the Wanderers in a move that strengthened an already formidable outfit. He was a key reason the Red Bands finished at the top of the Eastern Canada Amateur Hockey Association standings and then beat back the Stanley Cup challenges from Winnipeg, Toronto and Edmonton. -legendsofhockey

He was viewed as a fearless player who never backed down from a fight in his life. Ross' highest PIM total was in 1913-14 with the Wanderers in the NHA. In 18 games, he spent 74 minutes in the penalty box! From 1912-17, Ross would never spend less than 55 minutes in the penalty box in one season despite only averaging 18 games per season in the NHA.- hockey-blog-in-canada.blogspot

... two years in Ottawa, where he introduced the "kitty bar the door" defensive alignment that baffled teams preferring a freewheeling offensive game. He then returned to Montreal to close out his playing career with the Wanderers.-legends of hockey

Two time stanley cup champion...


ART ROSS!

 

[BenchBrawl]

ART ROSS!

This picture is disturbing

 

[papershoes]

ART ROSS!

solid pick - it was a toss up between him and griffis for me. i ended up going with griffis because he was a better team-oriented player (i read a few accounts of ross' selfishness). either way, a great pick.

on a side note - can anyone take a list?