ATD 2011 Draft Thread II

[Dreakmur]

Wasn't I the one who first posed that exact argument (in similar words) to you?

Perhaps, but I don't remember that

 

[Velociraptor]

The Pittsburgh Bankers are proud to select LW Valeri Kharlamov

I'll miss Val a lot, had him last year. I'm almost happy someone took him before I selected at 56. He is undeniably my favorite player of all time, I've only watched some clips from the first few Summit Series games before Clarke hurt him. But man was he ever a deadly hockey player. He's almost a liability in this draft as he needs security on his line at all times, but he is one hell of a hockey player. Unreal.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Dawson City is proud to select, as our starting goaltender, Clint Benedict.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Edit: I see Stevens was taken. Stevens seems very similar to Chelios to me. His ES scoring was pretty similar. He didn't get the PP time in his later years, but I'm not sure Chelios should get a lot of PP time here either. Stevens is also a strong contender for the best defensive defenceman of the last couple of decades. Nobody was matched harder against the opponents' best, and he played a huge percentage of his team's penalty kill.

Where do you stand on Stevens vs Chelios?

I see Chelios as clearly superior to Stevens, because he was comparable defensively at his peak, while providing quite a bit more offense. Stevens had to give up his offense for the most part (Though it should be pointed out how much more disciplined Stevens was, while providing similar levels of intimidation).

I think Stevens and Chelios are probably the two best (non goalie) PKers in modern times, but Chelios brought more offense.

I rank Chelios 10th among defensemen. MacInnis and Stevens are a step below.

 

[markrander87]

I know Fetisov started his NHL career late. BUT He did play 9 seasons, with 546 games played and a grand total of 8 Power Play goals?

Are we suppose to buy him as a top end Power Play Player? Surely Robinson is considered the better PP Player I mean Robinson had 10 Power play goals in one season....as a 34 year old.


EDIT: Fetisov has ZEROPower play goals and Two goals in total in 116 Career Play-Off games.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Dawson City is proud to select, as our starting goaltender, Clint Benedict.

I was wondering if new revelations about him on the HOH board would hurt his stock here. Apparently they did not.

I'm still uncertain what I think of the new revelations and Benedict's legacy.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

You do realize that his career didn't start in 1918 when the NHL did, right?
.

No, you're right....

Why should I wonder why he went in the mid 40's when he was ranked #100 by THN. I guess we're all smarter and do more research than a bunch of published professionals...

 

[Velociraptor]

Just a notice, TDMM and EagleBelfour are the only two GM's required to make a roster post and then the thread is complete!

 

[Velociraptor]

With the pace we're going at, I may pick tonight! I'm holding out for somebody, so I may move down if he gets selected. Anyone interested? I'll make a tentative deal in place with you if anyone has a pick at around 60-68

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Just a notice, TDMM and EagleBelfour are the only two GM's required to make a roster post and then the thread is complete!

Oops, I'll get on that.

 

[arrbez]

Im not trying to cause an arguement over this. But in Russia isnt Kharlamov considered a better player then Fetisov. Im failing to see why fetisov is always drafted ahead of him.

I think it has a lot to do with the positions they play.

Aside from Bobby Orr, I think pretty much every defenseman in this draft will go ahead of forwards who I would rank as better players in a vacuum. That's just the nature of the ATD, and it's the price you have to pay for a high-end #1 defenseman. If you just grabbed the best player available at all times, you'd probably have a team made almost entirely of Centres.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I was wondering if new revelations about him on the HOH board would hurt his stock here. Apparently they did not.

I'm still uncertain what I think of the new revelations and Benedict's legacy.

What revelations? Is it too late to change my pick?



(Seriously, though, what revelations are you referring to? I just picked him because he was a phenomenal puckstopper).

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

What revelations? Is it too late to change my pick?



(Seriously, though, what revelations are you referring to? I just picked him because he was a phenomenal puckstopper).

Late in his career, apparently he had a really bad drinking problem and blew a game for his team after showing up drunk.

I'm not sure how I should weight that versus his statistical dominance and winning Cups. At his best (and he was at his best more often than not), he was clearly the best goaltender to play the position before World War 2. I previously opined that the perceived gap from Hall/Brodeur to Benedict might have been just that he played earlier than them.

 

[Dreakmur]

No, you're right....

Why should I wonder why he went in the mid 40's when he was ranked #100 by THN. I guess we're all smarter and do more research than a bunch of published professionals...

That list was based only on NHL achievements. That's why he's 100th.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Late in his career, apparently he had a really bad drinking problem and blew a game for his team after showing up drunk.

I'm not sure how I should weight that versus his statistical dominance and winning Cups. At his best (and he was at his best more often than not), he was clearly the best goaltender to play the position before World War 2. I previously opined that the perceived gap from Hall/Brodeur to Benedict might have been just that he played earlier than them.

Yeah but all goalies are crazy, aren't they?

I mean except XXXX who seems relatively well adjusted but everyone says he sucks.
XXXX - cocaine.
Patrick Roy - showboater and talked to his goalposts among others.
XXXX - offering a cop a billion dollar bribe (this is a good one!)
Sawchuk - family problems, mental problems.. drinking too I think?
Glenn Hall - threw up before every game (it was Hall that supposedly did this right?)
.
.
.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Late in his career, apparently he had a really bad drinking problem and blew a game for his team after showing up drunk.

I'm not sure how I should weight that versus his statistical dominance and winning Cups. At his best (and he was at his best more often than not), he was clearly the best goaltender to play the position before World War 2. I previously opined that the perceived gap from Hall/Brodeur to Benedict might have been just that he played earlier than them.

I was thinking the alcoholism would be the "revelation", just figured it would've come up in one of the many incarnations of this draft, all of which likely including Clint.

Thought maybe there was something I hadn't read earlier.

 

[jarek]

...

Again, are we enforcing the undrafted players rule or not??????????

I don't care either way, but it should be made official because it's bothering the crap out of me. Also, am I the last GM to not have a player yet?

 

[vancityluongo]

...is it really that hard to use X's instead of name dropping undrafteds? I know everyone saying this might sound a little uptight, but it's like the only rule around these parts, other than PM after a pick. Just provide some courtesy and make a conscious effort to not do it, please.

edit: Also for the "sensitive types":

Well that was nice of his teammates to kill off all those penalties for him.

Just getting your goat a bit.. and sure Chelios was really good on the PK but he took a lot of bad penalties.

And yeah I still haven't forgiven him for that elbow on XX. I liked XX quite a bit at the time!

Might as well edit that out too while you're at it.

 

[jarek]

And can you guys update your roster posts please? I'd like to see which players are in my division before I make my first selection.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Yeah but all goalies are crazy, aren't they?

I mean except XXXXXXX who seems relatively well adjusted but everyone says he sucks.

XXXXXXX - cocaine.
Patrick Roy - showboater and talked to his goalposts among others.
XXXXXXX - offering a cop a billion dollar bribe (this is a good one!)
Sawchuk - family problems, mental problems.. drinking too I think?
Glenn Hall - threw up before every game (it was Hall that supposedly did this right?)
.
.
.

Was about to add Glenn Hall's weird little pre-game ritual but saw you edited your post to include him.

EDIT: Sorry, edited out the "unmentionables".....though I think you might still be able to tell who it is.

 

[DoMakc]

Very great info, thanks a lot!

Im not trying to cause an arguement over this. But in Russia isnt Kharlamov considered a better player then Fetisov. Im failing to see why fetisov is always drafted ahead of him. If we account for war years effecting players playing in the NHL at that time, surely we have to hold some weight in Kharlamov not being allowed to play in the NHL.

I think you don't know how Russians think - they don't care much about stats (that's may be actually the reason why second assist wasn't rewarded), but they give full style points. when somebody says Kharlamov is the best player, it is in the line with "most talented", and it's true. Kharlamov's lifestyle and early death only added to his legend. that's why so many russian juniors want 17 or 71 - he is a legend with Jim-Morrison flair, while Fetisov is a boring minister. and Russia's top prospects are mostly forwards, so it's a logical choice to idolize Kharlamov.

As for Fetisov's stats in the NHL, he was way after his prime (he started with 16, and soviet National team members had a 11 month season), and he had to adjust to new environment, so he became more of defencive defenceman.

 

[markrander87]

.

As for Fetisov's stats in the NHL, he was way after his prime (he started with 16, and soviet National team members had a 11 month season), and he had to adjust to new environment, so he became more of defencive defenceman.

Im sorry but I cant buy that. If he is suppose to be looked upon as a legit PP Quarterback where is the evidence? He played 9 seasons how long does it take to adjust to North America? Not going to buy those excuses.

 

[markrander87]

I think you don't know how Russians think - they don't care much about stats (that's may be actually the reason why second assist wasn't rewarded), but they give full style points. when somebody says Kharlamov is the best player, it is in the line with "most talented", and it's true. Kharlamov's lifestyle and early death only added to his legend. that's why so many russian juniors want 17 or 71 - he is a legend with Jim-Morrison flair, while Fetisov is a boring minister. and Russia's top prospects are mostly forwards, so it's a logical choice to idolize Kharlamov.

.

Last time I checked, he spent his entire career playing in Russia? Should he be penalized for playing the type of hockey that the fans wanted to see? He didnt have to, and wasnt expected to play the "North American" Style of hockey, he didnt have to.

Didnt Kharlamov lead the Russians in PIMS during the Super Series? Cleary when he had to he played a more grittier game.

 

[jarek]

Im sorry but I cant buy that. If he is suppose to be looked upon as a legit PP Quarterback where is the evidence? He played 9 seasons how long does it take to adjust to North America? Not going to buy those excuses.

He was way past his prime. He adjusted his game in order to keep a future in the NHL, because his dominant offense was sort of dried up by that point. It does, however, call into question just how good he really would have been in the NHL.

Last time I checked, he spent his entire career playing in Russia? Should he be penalized for playing the type of hockey that the fans wanted to see? He didnt have to, and wasnt expected to play the "North American" Style of hockey, he didnt have to.

Didnt Kharlamov lead the Russians in PIMS during the Super Series? Cleary when he had to he played a more grittier game.

Since we're all naming undrafteds anyways.. Alex Semin has a high PIM count, do you think he's gritty?

 

[seventieslord]

raleh listpicks Dit Clapper, D/RW. Whom GBC would tell you is tremendous and exceptional at so many things

someone please PM overpass.