Prospect Info: At 24th Overall the Jets Select Kristian Vesalainen

[Maukkis]

I cannot recall an occasion in which he has played C. Neither wing should be a problem, though.

 

[thetracksuit]

did anyone else notice the clock run down like an extra 2 seconds after the whistle was blown

 

[Kaako Kappo]

did anyone else notice the clock run down like an extra 2 seconds after the whistle was blown

I'm sure Vesalainen didn't

 

[thetracksuit]

I'm sure Vesalainen didn't

whoops!

 

[DaJackal]

He looked great today but here's the shootout move

I'd also like to point out this: look at the SO situation. He was put in a must-score spot and he still could control his nerves and pull off a move like that. I often worry about the mental side of Finnish players, because I have a feeling that they are more team players and don't want to let the team down. Hence, when they're put in a tough spot they are not only worried about their own failure but also feel extra bad if they "betray the team" and that's why they have issues with nerve control. Vesalainen seems to be fine in that regard.

He will definitely be an NHL player. Everything in his game screams, I repeat, poor man's Wheeler.

 

[Lempo]

Can he sign an ATO to play for the moose during a playoff run similar to when Scheifele and Morrissey played for the Ice Caps a few years ago after their CHL seasons ended? Is it different for players who played in Europe compared to players who do this after the CHL season.

Upon thinking of it i dont remember if Scheifele and Morrissey actually had to sign ATO's to play for AHL Playoffs. Can players play in AHL playoffs after the CHL season is finished under their regular NHL Contract?

He's signed to HPK for the 2017-18 season (only). If Jets sign him to ELC they have to pay the ~$200k+ IIHF transfer fee for the pleasure. Guess: he won't be signed before next summer.

I would guess a pro is not eligible for Amateur Tryout contract. Also, ATO needs an emergency call-up situation.

 

[Asiantuntija]

Vesalainen reminds me about Jaromir Jagr.

 

[Lempo]

The allowed usage of ATO:

11.1 Standard Player's Contract, Amateur Try-Out Agreement, Professional Try-Out Agreement.

(a) Standard Player's Contract. The standard form SPC annexed hereto as Exhibit 1 will be the sole form of employment contract used for all Player signings after the execution of this Agreement. The standard form SPC may not be amended or modified in any manner whatsoever. Filed and approved 2005 SPCs that are valid and effective at the time of execution of this Agreement will remain valid and effective until their expiration, as deemed modified by this Agreement, including the Transition Rules attached as Exhibit 16 hereto, and shall be deemed for all purposes to constitute an "SPC" within the meaning of this Agreement.

(b) Amateur Try-Out Agreement. Notwithstanding Section 11.1(a) above, a Club and an amateur Player will be permitted to execute the form Amateur Try-Out Agreement ("ATO") annexed hereto as Exhibit 17 under emergency conditions as set forth in Section 13.12(m)(ii). The Club shall submit to Central Registry and the NHLPA, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto, an ATO form signed by the Club and the Player. The League shall use reasonable efforts to approve and register, or reject, the ATO prior to the NHL Regular Season Game in which the amateur Player is scheduled to play and shall provide notification of such approval and registration or rejection forthwith to the NHLPA and the Club, and the Club in turn shall notify the Player, in accordance with Exhibit 3. No Player shall play in an NHL Regular Season Game pursuant to an ATO unless and until approved by the League.

CBA 13.12 Transfer To/From Minors:

(m) Emergency Recall.

(ii) Emergency conditions shall be established when the playing strength of the Loaning Club, by reason of incapacitating injury or illness or by League suspension to its Players is reduced below the level of two (2) goalkeepers, six (6) defensemen and twelve (12) forwards. Proof of the existence of the emergency conditions including the incapacity shall be furnished to the Commissioner of the League upon request made by him.

Goalies' Professional Try-Out Agreement is a special case, but that doesn't obviously apply here.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

He needs to play in Moose next year IMO. Gotta learn dat small ice.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

The allowed usage of ATO:




CBA 13.12 Transfer To/From Minors:


Goalies' Professional Try-Out Agreement is a special case, but that doesn't obviously apply here.

This is referring to NHL ATO's. What was referred to in the post was an AHL ATO, which is completely different. In the AHL the ATO's are not used for emergencies like in NHL.

AHL ATO's are very commonly used late in the year to have junior players finish the year in the AHL. In general they are used for players who have completed their junior or college year to finish the year in AHL (5-10 games in regular season + playoffs). I cannot recall a time it was used for a European based player however, and in particular as Vesailainen has a contract for next year I don't think he is eligible for an AHL ATO.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

He needs to play in Moose next year IMO. Gotta learn dat small ice.

Finns actually play on a hybrid ice surface. Not quite as small as NHL, but not as big as international ice. The Finns also generally play a more "NA" style compared to the rest of Europe. I find they usually have less of an issue adjusting than others.

 

[Lempo]

This is referring to NHL ATO's. What was referred to in the post was an AHL ATO, which is completely different. In the AHL the ATO's are not used for emergencies like in NHL.

AHL ATO's are very commonly used late in the year to have junior players finish the year in the AHL. In general they are used for players who have completed their junior or college year to finish the year in AHL (5-10 games in regular season + playoffs). I cannot recall a time it was used for a European based player however, and in particular as Vesailainen has a contract for next year I don't think he is eligible for an AHL ATO.

Dammit. Serves me right for trying to qualify.

But, he's a pro already so not an amateur. He's not contracted for next year though; he popularly had the Frolunda issue and signed only for one year at this point, assumably in anticipation for signing an ELC for the 2018-19 season.

 

[boyko10]

Finns actually play on a hybrid ice surface. Not quite as small as NHL, but not as big as international ice. The Finns also generally play a more "NA" style compared to the rest of Europe. I find they usually have less of an issue adjusting than others.

Rambo is right though we struggle hard with very few exceptions. I've prayed for twenty years we'd go all small.
The players haven't had a problem admitting it either, everyones said it out loud. More or less all of them.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Dammit. Serves me right for trying to qualify.

But, he's a pro already so not an amateur. He's not contracted for next year though; he popularly had the Frolunda issue and signed only for one year at this point, assumably in anticipation for signing an ELC for the 2018-19 season.

Ah I did misread your post above, thought it said he had a contract for next year.

IIRC most European contracts do end by April 30. Sometimes teams do even release players early to come over for ATO's. I did just remember the example, which would be Adrian Kempe. After his SHL season ended he signed an ELC with the Kings on April 15, 2015 to a 3 year ELC starting for the 15-16 season. He simultaneously signed a ATO with the Manchester Monarchs to finish out 14-15 where he played 3 regular season games and 17 playoff games. It preserved his ELC "slide" for 15-16 which he spent in the AHL.

 

[Whileee]

Finns actually play on a hybrid ice surface. Not quite as small as NHL, but not as big as international ice. The Finns also generally play a more "NA" style compared to the rest of Europe. I find they usually have less of an issue adjusting than others.

Yup.

And Vesalainen seemed to adapt quite well to the smaller NA ice surface in the WJC-20 tournament. Niku seems to have adapted quickly at the AHL level.

I still think Vesalainen is a couple years away, mainly because I think the Jets are stacked at F in their system. Next season, Roslovic, Petan, Lemieux and Foley will make a strong push for NHL roster spots, I think (and maybe Appleton). Matthias will be gone for sure. Probably Hendricks, too. Dano seems another likely one to be traded (unless he continues his good play), and Tanev will get pushed by the young players. I think they'll give Vesalainen another year of development either in Liiga or the AHL before he makes a strong push for an NHL roster spot.

 

[Lempo]

@Holden Caulfield,

I don't think you can game the ELC slide eligibility in any way; it's fully dependent on the ELC signing age of the player and not an option if >19.

 

[Saintb]

Vesalainen reminds me about Jaromir Jagr.

I'll take it

 

[Holden Caulfield]

@Holden Caulfield,

I don't think you can game the ELC slide eligibility in any way; it's fully dependent on the ELC signing age of the player and not an option if >19.

You can in minor ways. You can sign contracts in April or later that don't start until July 1 of that year. Your signing age would remain the age at which you signed the contract. If have to check on Vesailainen's bday and age, but it should be that his contract will slide next year. Even if comes over for moose playoffs. There's lots of rules that I won't go into for slide eligibility.

 

[Lempo]

You can in minor ways. You can sign contracts in April or later that don't start until July 1 of that year. Your signing age would remain the age at which you signed the contract. If have to check on Vesailainen's bday and age, but it should be that his contract will slide next year. Even if comes over for moose playoffs. There's lots of rules that I won't go into for slide eligibility.

June 1st, 1999. But, CBA 9.2 has it that player's age for the purpose is his age at Sept 15th of the calendar year he signs the ELC, no matter what the actual age at the time of signing is. So it will be 19 for him, and he's eligible for one slide year.

Applies to Kempe too, born Sept 13th.

 

[Evil Little]

His ELC will slide unless he plays in the NHL

Expansion draft?

 

[Holden Caulfield]

June 1st, 1999. But, CBA 9.2 has it that player's age for the purpose is his age at Sept 15th of the calendar year he signs the ELC, no matter what the actual age at the time of signing is. So it will be 19 for him, and he's eligible for one slide year.

Applies to Kempe too, born Sept 13th.

So yeah exactly. That's why the player would sign the deal to start for next season but then would join AHL team on ATO for end of year, to not use up that slide year during the current year. Since Kempe had just 1 year slide (which got used the next year) and Vesailainen would have his slide preserved for next year (if he plays less than 10 NHL games).

 

[Lempo]

So yeah exactly. That's why the player would sign the deal to start for next season but then would join AHL team on ATO for end of year, to not use up that slide year during the current year. Since Kempe had just 1 year slide (which got used the next year) and Vesailainen would have his slide preserved for next year (if he plays less than 10 NHL games).

Ah now I see! I was instinctively thinking Aleksi Saarela who came to Charlotte Checkers for the spring 2017 after his Liiga season, but he obviously had his ELC signed in the previous summer at 19 and his slide was already being used for 16/17 season.

Academic pondering obviously, because any Finn coming from Europe signing his ELC under 20 has been playing pro already and ATO is not an option.

 

[csk]

I'd also like to point out this: look at the SO situation. He was put in a must-score spot and he still could control his nerves and pull off a move like that. I often worry about the mental side of Finnish players, because I have a feeling that they are more team players and don't want to let the team down. Hence, when they're put in a tough spot they are not only worried about their own failure but also feel extra bad if they "betray the team" and that's why they have issues with nerve control. Vesalainen seems to be fine in that regard.

He will definitely be an NHL player. Everything in his game screams, I repeat, poor man's Wheeler.

If he can be a 2nd line version of Wheeler I'll be happy

 

[csk]

Expansion draft?

That's a fair point. However I have a feeling we're going to lose someone good regardless of whether Vesa's eligible or not

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Ah now I see! I was instinctively thinking Aleksi Saarela who came to Charlotte Checkers for the spring 2017 after his Liiga season, but he obviously had his ELC signed in the previous summer at 19 and his slide was already being used for 16/17 season.

Academic pondering obviously, because any Finn coming from Europe signing his ELC under 20 has been playing pro already and ATO is not an option.

I think AHLs ATO rules refer to just NA pro. Kempe had been playing in SHL so was pro but that's what he signed to finish year in AHL. Whether you call it ATO or PTO doesn't really matter in the end though.