Speculation: Asset value

[Racer88]

Can we include Keefe

 

[Nineteen67]

In a perfect situation ….Matthews Marner Rielly Nylander Knies Woll Samsonov Bertuzzi Brodie Liljegren….

In reality, they have so few tradable commodities.

Can we include Keefe

What could they get for him?

 

[Racer88]

In a perfect situation ….Matthews Marner Rielly Nylander Knies Woll Samsonov Bertuzzi Brodie Liljegren….

In reality, they have so few tradable commodities.


What could they get for him?

Good point

 

[ACC1224]

The topic is 'for potential trades'.

How much time would a GM waste trying to come up with an offer for a player they know they cannot get? Probably none at all.

Kneis, Nylander, Samsonov, Woll, Liljgren, Timmins, Robertson, more or less in that order, and then picks.

I see that even the people who included Matty and Mitch didn't include JT.

Yeah that was pretty much the intent of the thread, assets that the GM can freely move.

Agee with your list but would rank
Nylander
Knies
Lilligren
Samsonov
Timmins
Robertson
Woll

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yeah that was pretty much the intent of the thread, assets that the GM can freely move.

Agee with your list but would rank
Nylander
Knies
Lilligren
Samsonov
Timmins
Robertson
Woll

Willy and Knies are pretty much a toss up, and I know I value goalies more than some (having been one).

 

[Arzak]

Because he's the guy, he's the franchise player, If he were available We'd get a boatload regardless.

You might say "but the NMC restricts the market."

Not really not unless you believe he'd sign with a bottom feeder like SJ or a team like Arizona playing in front of 3500 people max

I wish we could deny reality as you do. They have full NMC you're not moving them, you're not getting a bag of pucks back, nothing.

The narrative Mitch/ Auston would wave because ...

Yet there are a bunch of reality deniers who think NMC is some philosophical dispute.

If it was JT would be traded by now, instead, we have 3 immovable objects.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I wish we could deny reality as you do. They have full NMC you're not moving them, you're not getting a bag of pucks back, nothing.

The narrative Mitch/ Auston would wave because ...

Yet there are a bunch of reality deniers who think NMC is some philosophical dispute.

If it was JT would be traded by now, instead, we have 3 immovable objects.

You are correct in saying the Leafs aren't going to move Matthews because they don't want to.

If they did it would get done.

While the NMC does give Matthews the right to tell Treliving to go f*** himself, that's generally not how that works usually the player agrees to waive for specific teams.

And no wouldn't restrict the market in this case because the teams that would be in on him If he didn't have the clause are the same ones he probably waives for.

LA, NYR, Vegas, etc.

Now I don't think it happens because I don't think the Leafs have ANY interest in doing it.

But let's not pretend NTC/NMC clause aren't waived all the time because they are.

 

[Arzak]

You are correct in saying the Leafs aren't going to move Matthews because they don't want to.

If they did it would get done.

While the NMC does give Matthews the right to tell Treliving to go f*** himself, that's generally not how that works usually the player agrees to waive for specific teams.

And no wouldn't restrict the market in this case because the teams that would be in on him If he didn't have the clause are the same ones he probably waives for.

LA, NYR, Vegas, etc.

Now I don't think it happens because I don't think the Leafs have ANY interest in doing it.

But let's not pretend NTC/NMC clause aren't waived all the time because they are.

NMC on 10M+ contracts?

You can find an example of veteran player waiving for a chane to win the Cup and / or move to his hometown.

Can you show me an example of $10M player that waived to go from his hometown and contender? There has to be since they waive all the time.


This whole rhetoric is misleading on purpose on your part. There is nothing in it for Leafs players, nothing. They would lose endorsement, have to leave their homes and admit they are a burden on contenders.

 

[Nineteen67]

NMC on 10M+ contracts?

You can find an example of veteran player waiving for a chane to win the Cup and / or move to his hometown.

Can you show me an example of $10M player that waived to go from his hometown and contender? There has to be since they waive all the time.


This whole rhetoric is misleading on purpose on your part. There is nothing in it for Leafs players, nothing. They would lose endorsement, have to leave their homes and admit they are a burden on contenders.

If the Leafs really wanted, or needed, to trade one of Marner or Matthews you don’t think they could get it done? The no move clauses are primarily used to protect the player from being dealt to one of the Canadian cities or to team that has no chance, or to the minors.

If they really wanted they could move them. Same with Tavares

 

[Arzak]

If the Leafs really wanted, or needed, to trade one of Marner or Matthews you don’t think they could get it done? The no move clauses are primarily used to protect the player from being dealt to one of the Canadian cities or to team that has no chance, or to the minors.

If they really wanted they could move them. Same with Tavares

No. I don't see it.

Can you tell me the realistic scenario you have in your head that makes you think otherwise?

What exactly can Leafs do? Nothing.
It's not like they will send someone to their home with baseball bats.


All they can do is ask and be told to f*** off.

 

[namttebih]

1. Nylander
2. Bertuzzi
3. Brodie
4. Domi
5. Knies
6. Samsonov
7.Woll
8. Kampf
9. McCabe
10. Liljegren

I hope McCabe proves me wrong. He has a lot to show when it comes to the assets given up for him. For now it's a massive overpayment by Dubas.

If I understand correctly, this thread is about trade value - not value to this team today.

If that's the case, having Domi rated so high and above young players such as Knies, Lily and Woll is wrong. I have my fingers crossed that Domi will come out guns blazing and do really well this year. That said, he's a pending UFA on his 7th team in 6 seasons. I really don't see him holding a lot of trade value at this point. Lily is in what should be his breakout season as a 24 years old RHD. Woll could very well take the job from Sammy in the next 10 months. Knies probably holds the most value of the 3.

I realize that there are a lot of could and should there, but I think that Domi's contact position tilts it in the young guys favor.

 

[namttebih]

The topic is 'for potential trades'.

How much time would a GM waste trying to come up with an offer for a player they know they cannot get? Probably none at all.

Kneis, Nylander, Samsonov, Woll, Liljgren, Timmins, Robertson, more or less in that order, and then picks.

I see that even the people who included Matty and Mitch didn't include JT.

I'm assuming that you rank Knies ahead of Willy because of contracts? It still might be the other way around.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

If I understand correctly, this thread is about trade value - not value to this team today.

If that's the case, having Domi rated so high and above young players such as Knies, Lily and Woll is wrong. I have my fingers crossed that Domi will come out guns blazing and do really well this year. That said, he's a pending UFA on his 7th team in 6 seasons. I really don't see him holding a lot of trade value at this point. Lily is in what should be his breakout season as a 24 years old RHD. Woll could very well take the job from Sammy in the next 10 months. Knies probably holds the most value of the 3.

I realize that there are a lot of could and should there, but I think that Domi's contact position tilts it in the young guys favor.

You're wrong for thinking opinions are wrong.

 

[ACC1224]

You are correct in saying the Leafs aren't going to move Matthews because they don't want to.

If they did it would get done.

While the NMC does give Matthews the right to tell Treliving to go f*** himself, that's generally not how that works usually the player agrees to waive for specific teams.

And no wouldn't restrict the market in this case because the teams that would be in on him If he didn't have the clause are the same ones he probably waives for.

LA, NYR, Vegas, etc.

Now I don't think it happens because I don't think the Leafs have ANY interest in doing it.

But let's not pretend NTC/NMC clause aren't waived all the time because they are.

Not denying it could or has happened but what are some recent examples of players with full NMC on a contender waiving to leave?

If the Leafs really wanted, or needed, to trade one of Marner or Matthews you don’t think they could get it done? The no move clauses are primarily used to protect the player from being dealt to one of the Canadian cities or to team that has no chance, or to the minors.

If they really wanted they could move them. Same with Tavares

I don’t think that is true at all.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I'm assuming that you rank Knies ahead of Willy because of contracts? It still might be the other way around.

Younger and still on ELC/RFA, but pretty much a toss up.

 

[Notsince67]

If the Leafs really wanted, or needed, to trade one of Marner or Matthews you don’t think they could get it done? The no move clauses are primarily used to protect the player from being dealt to one of the Canadian cities or to team that has no chance, or to the minors.

If they really wanted they could move them. Same with Tavares

Please explain how really wanting can translate to doing if a player is uncooperative.

 

[namttebih]

You're wrong for thinking opinions are wrong.

Didn't you just cry about people not having discussions on the main boards? I was having a discussion. I disagreed with your opinion and stated why. I'm sorry that your opinion was wrong. Better?

 

[Nineteen67]

No. I don't see it.

Can you tell me the realistic scenario you have in your head that makes you think otherwise?

What exactly can Leafs do? Nothing.
It's not like they will send someone to their home with baseball bats.


All they can do is ask and be told to f*** off.

If they decided trading them was the best option for Leafs, the most logical thing to happen is the player would submit a list and move on.

 

[Nineteen67]

Not denying it could or has happened but what are some recent examples of players with full NMC on a contender waiving to leave?


I don’t think that is true at all.

I dont think would ever come to that, but if Mathews or Nylander said they weren’t re-signing I think they might ask for a list.
I cant imagine the player wanting to stick around and would submit their list and negotiate a deal with another team.

Similar to Tkachuk last year, civility would rule.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Didn't you just cry about people not having discussions on the main boards? I was having a discussion. I disagreed with your opinion and stated why. I'm sorry that your opinion was wrong. Better?

The most back-handed apology in HF history. Don't quote me again.

 

[ACC1224]

I dont think would ever come to that, but if Mathews or Nylander said they weren’t re-signing I think they might ask for a list.
I cant imagine the player wanting to stick around and would submit their list and negotiate a deal with another team.

Similar to Tkachuk last year, civility would rule.

Got it.
I’m looking at the players value where the GM is driving the move not the player.

 

[Nineteen67]

Please explain how really wanting can translate to doing if a player is uncooperative.

I don’t believe a player is going to stomp their feet and have a hissy fit. But, if either side is unprofessional there’s not much you can do about.

 

[Racer88]

If a player refused a trade we be like………..how do you like your 6 minutes of 4th line duty. That should help your next contract a lot.
Time to take back the power

 

[ACC1224]

I don’t believe a player is going to stomp their feet and have a hissy fit. But, if either side is unprofessional there’s not much you can do about.

I don’t think refusing to waive makes someone unprofessional.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I dont think would ever come to that, but if Mathews or Nylander said they weren’t re-signing I think they might ask for a list.
I cant imagine the player wanting to stick around and would submit their list and negotiate a deal with another team.

Similar to Tkachuk last year, civility would rule.

It's a moot point. They all (+Marner) want to re-sign and the team wants the same.

If a player refused a trade we be like………..how do you like your 6 minutes of 4th line duty. That should help your next contract a lot.
Time to take back the power

That punishes the team much more than the player, and risks if not guarantees losing a star player for nothing.