As of TODAY, where is McDavid on the all time list in your opinion?

[GreeningOil]

Lemieux would never be outscored by Kucherov and MacKinnon though. From 1988-97 he only lost the art ross if he was injured that season. And it was to Gretzky anyway.

Well, McDavid was injured last season…

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Well, McDavid was injured last season…

He played 76 games. I mean Lemieux didn't play any completely healthy games post 1990.

 

[lawrence]

top 4. easily. Dude is hard to contain. makes everyone around him better. much better. unique players. Once in a lifetime type of guy.

 

[GreeningOil]

He played 76 games. I mean Lemieux didn't play any completely healthy games post 1990.

I ain’t gonna start arguing that.

McDavid was not 100% last season and he still had 100 assists and had an incredible playoff run.

 

[ViD]

Right now he ranks as the second best cupless player right behind Marcel Dionne

 

[WetcoastOrca]

He’s a tough one to be honest. My gut tells me he ends up in the top 5 even without a Cup. But this is based on trajectory rather than where he is right now.
There’s Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux that he’s not likely to catch. And Howe’s duration at a high level is really unheard of.
The trouble I have is with the lack of a Cup. Should he be punished for having Chia, Holland and now Bowman as poor GM’s? How many Cups would the others have won with that type of management? For me it’s not just a cut and dry thing but requires context.

 

[TKB]

Im one of the few that argue Orr should be lower for that very reason. The skill was there, the high end seasons were there, and the accolades were there, but not the longevity. So were crowning him top 3 of all time because we never saw the regression assuming he would have stayed at that level for another 10 seasons, which is highly unlikely.

McDavid, if his career ended today, is Orr without the Cups.

Hell, i we are going off that logic, there is a real argument for Lemieux being the best ever. ASSUMING he played the same amount of games as Gretz, he would be close to his point totals and played in a tougher era to score.

Bobby Orr is not placed where he is because we didn't see a downside of his career ....he is placed there because when he was healthy and in his prime....he changed the game.

Similar to Gretzky. You can make a good argument that Mario was a better hockey player, but Gretzky completely transcended the game by how he played during his prime. Mario dominated in a more traditional physical sense.

To the subject at hand as great as McDavid is, he just doesn't separate himself from his peers the way Orr, Gretzky and Mario did.

 

[nerevarine]

Honestly, number 1

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Bobby Orr is not placed where he is because we didn't see a downside of his career ....he is placed there because when he was healthy and in his prime....he changed the game.

Similar to Gretzky. You can make a good argument that Mario was a better hockey player, but Gretzky completely transcended the game by how he played during his prime. Mario dominated in a more traditional physical sense.

To the subject at hand as great as McDavid is, he just doesn't separate himself from his peers the way Orr, Gretzky and Mario did.

Bingo. Orr revolutionized the way defensemen played D. I think he may have had the biggest influence on the game of hockey. Had he played a full career I personally would have had trouble separating him and Gretzky.

 

[wetcoast]

Bobby Orr is not placed where he is because we didn't see a downside of his career ....he is placed there because when he was healthy and in his prime....he changed the game.

Agree.

Similar to Gretzky. You can make a good argument that Mario was a better hockey player, but Gretzky completely transcended the game by how he played during his prime. Mario dominated in a more traditional physical sense.

Agree and will add that Howe also has a very good and long prime of tilting the ice.

To the subject at hand as great as McDavid is, he just doesn't separate himself from his peers the way Orr, Gretzky and Mario did.

This is where we part as I think it's just harder to dominate for several reasons.

1) the number of teams and the chance for variance which is part of my second point.

2) the number of talent streams producing elite talent these days is just out of this world and all trophies are more competitive than in most seasons in the past.

 

[TKB]

Agree.

Agree and will add that Howe also has a very good and long prime of tilting the ice.


This is where we part as I think it's just harder to dominate for several reasons.

1) the number of teams and the chance for variance which is part of my second point.

2) the number of talent streams producing elite talent these days is just out of this world and all trophies are more competitive than in most seasons in the past.

I would argue that the counter to that is that there may be more talent overall today, there are more teams now. in addition pre-cap era the late playoff rounds featured more best on best player wise in terms of matchups. While the Soviets weren't in the NHL at the time Gretzky and Mario also performed at the highest levels in those great Canada Cup series against the Soviets, which was as good of hockey as I ever watched.

I would say McDavid ends up in a second tier off all time greats at least in my life time (1967). I really don't know how to rank Original 6 greats compared to the eras that I was able to watch for myself. None of that is to diminish the skill levels of players and even kids (youth hockey) today. But if you are measuring the GOATs you ultimately have to evaluate each generations best measured up against the best of their time.