As a fan what is your "Realistic" expectation for next season? What you want?

[banks]

I expect i'll miss Spezza.
Sure he was a shadow of his former self but his heart was clearly there and his shot was still good. He was here for 1 reason and 1 reason only and that was to win a cup in a Leafs sweater. That carries a lot of weight with me.

Agreed. An opportunity was missed to give Spez the ultimate sendoff. I wish they won a Cup every year, obviously. But I really wish they could have won one with Spezza still playing.

Here's hoping they now win it for Giordano.

 

[Notsince67]

My expectation?

Make playoffs, lose in the 1st round. We're consistent.

I don't expect to win the lottery when I play but I still play. Hope is a powerful motivator.

 

[Notsince67]

And how many playoffs rounds did our top guys and their offence help our team win over the past 6 years?

So regardless of any missed context, this is considered relevant when you are talking about sub 24 year old players?
Throwing factoid grenades over walls blindly doesn't contribute to a constructive discussion.

 

[Notsince67]

We lost. Our top guys played better but they needed to do more bc we didn’t advance.
Fair or not but when you look at last playoffs roster, of the forwards group, only 5 of them made over 2mil. To me, unless the players are on ELC or vets taking a huge discount like Spezza or Phil, players making under 2mil are usually just solid players, there will be exception like Bunting, Goodrow.. but most of them are just okay players, to rely on a whole bunch of under 2mil players to score in the playoffs is not a good strategy. There is a reason why AM, MM and JT are getting paid three of the top seven salaries in the league. They need to deliver and carry the team to playoff success. Kopitar was the only 10mil player whose team made the playoffs but didn’t advance, the rest of the 10mil plus players who made the playoffs all helped their team advance to the 2nd round.
Think it is about time at least one of our 10mil players to carry the team and steal a series.

Yet Matthews, Marner and Tavares scored more goals relative to capspace than the top 3 paid forwards on Tampa did against the leafs. This constant haranguing about salaries is specious but doesn't stand up to the smell test.

 

[LeafGrief]

50 Wins, 60 goals from Matthews. 10 million posts about how ThE rEgUlAr SeAsOn MeAnS nOtHiNg.

I don't care that the regular season means nothing, I'm planning to enjoy the hell out of the Leafs this year. Matthews and Marner are in their primes. Sure they'll probably break our hearts again, but they're going to be breaking our hearts forever so we might as well enjoy the talent while we have it.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Yet Matthews, Marner and Tavares scored more goals relative to capspace than the top 3 paid forwards on Tampa did against the leafs. This constant haranguing about salaries is specious but doesn't stand up to the smell test.

Tampa won because of their fourth line. The likes of Corey Perry, who wanted to come to Toronto, but unfortunately did not play for the Soo. I mean, Clifford’s former agent was….. Dubas.

Same deal with Talbot and approaching the team.

There is a pattern with this management team.

 

[andora]

The perry one still bugs me. I dont get it

 

[TorMapleJays]

50 Wins, 60 goals from Matthews. 10 million posts about how ThE rEgUlAr SeAsOn MeAnS nOtHiNg.

I don't care that the regular season means nothing, I'm planning to enjoy the hell out of the Leafs this year. Matthews and Marner are in their primes. Sure they'll probably break our hearts again, but they're going to be breaking our hearts forever so we might as well enjoy the talent while we have it.

I enjoy the regular season as much as anyone but let’s be real here, game six, and game seven both boring low event, lots of clutching and grabbing, and physicality.

Tavares had a good goal.
Kerfoot doesn’t take care of the puck, especially when the red line is a mear 10 feet from him, and Campbell never bailed the team out when Tampa went into hyper drive mode.

The perry one still bugs me. I dont get it

Who doesn’t want a top ten active playoff point getter in their lineup?

Kyle Dubas

 

[Notsince67]

Tampa won because of their fourth line. The likes of Corey Perry, who wanted to come to Toronto, but unfortunately did not play for the Soo. I mean, Clifford’s former agent was….. Dubas.

Same deal with Talbot and approaching the team.

There is a pattern with this management team.

I agree with you that the problem was with secondary players. Even in that, tied for first place in scoring for Tampa was Ross Colton at a staggering cap hit of 1.125MM. This is hardly a compelling argument that salary distribution is the big factor in the leafs losing.
Salaries are not the issue. Ineffective secondary players are.

 

[Matthews34]

Yet Matthews, Marner and Tavares scored more goals relative to capspace than the top 3 paid forwards on Tampa did against the leafs. This constant haranguing about salaries is specious but doesn't stand up to the smell test.

Tampa still beat the Leafs because they have depth. So you must be testing for the wrong smell.

 

[Notsince67]

Tampa still beat the Leafs because they have depth. So you must be testing for the wrong smell.

Depth not driven by salary distribution of the top paid forwards.
What you smell is the compost that you call a premise.

 

[Gabriel426]

Our top players outperformed their top players.

The rest of their players outperformed the rest of our players.

Therefore our top players were the problem?

Wanting our top players to do more doesn’t mean they suck.
It is like would you rather to have a 10% raise or 25% raise from your bosses or clients?
If you believe that that’s the best out top guys can do and Leafs need better supporting staff, then it will be back to cap allocations and how Leafs is the one of the two teams(I think) to have more than One 10mil plus players and the only team to have THREE 10mil plus players on the team.
Need to check this, but I don’t think any Cup winners or SC finalists in the cap era had THREE of the top SEVEN paid players on their team(excluding TDL additions).
I doubt Dubas will make any big trades nor do I even think there is any deals that make sense without taking a huge step backwards(unless Helle is available), that’s why the top guys need to do more. Is it fair to ask them to do more, well they are making the bank and AM, MM and JT actually make more or just a bit less than all the other forwards combine.

 

[andora]

Leafs top 5 players - 57%
Lightning top 5 - 53%
Avs - 45.5%
Rangers - 53%
Oilers - 49%

It puts more emphasis on finding depth that performs and hopefully the leafs are just about over the hump in having young guys come in and perform to offset it

If you think of it this way if we can get just one guy million or under to outperform their contract to say a 3.4 to 4 million dollar level it can make up the difference. Wait bunting did that.. so it is possible! Thats one

We have bunting outperforming his contract. Very confident giordabo and liljegren can outperform theirs. Thats 3. A marlie is going to make it thisbyear you watch.. robertson or anderson or whomever and that guy will out perform his because he will play in a solid system.

The contract stuff is heavy, but it isnt THE reason. It can tie into some of the reason when you combine it with the bombed pipeline that was there when everyone got paid but they are slowly coming.

Where a problem persists are the cheap bottom depth that runnijg through walls and leading the team as much as from the bottom as the top guys do

Part of the problem is not taking a corey perry when he comes calling or trading for cogliano (i realize he may not have wanted to come).. but those are my examples

 

[Gabriel426]

So regardless of any missed context, this is considered relevant when you are talking about sub 24 year old players?
Throwing factoid grenades over walls blindly doesn't contribute to a constructive discussion.

Yet Matthews, Marner and Tavares scored more goals relative to capspace than the top 3 paid forwards on Tampa did against the leafs. This constant haranguing about salaries is specious but doesn't stand up to the smell test.

Fact, our top guys still couldn’t help the Leafs past the first round where 50% of the playoffs teams managed to do it every year.
Fact, regardless of what happened in the past, a new year is a new year and there is nothing to indicate our top guys will again fail to do so this year.
Fact, our top 3 guys get paid more than TB top 3 guys. I think the diff is about 4mil and that is a pretty solid mid 6 forward. It is safe to say, our top 3 guys are expected to perform better than TB top 3 guys based on their salaries.
Our top three forwards made more or close to the combine salaries of the rest of the team. Not going to get into rather they are worth their salaries or not but let’s just look at productions.
In the regular season, AM, MM, JT scores 122 goals, they also didn’t play all 82 games due to injuries.
While the rest of the forwards scored 155 goals, that’s also based on an 82 games schedule due to subbing in for injured players.
In the playoffs, AM, MM and JT scored 9 goals while the rest of the forwards scored 10 goals, while two of them were empty net.
Now, I am not going to even go into PP time or zone starts but when it comes to PP time, AM, MM and JT are three of the four forwards on PP1.

Now, the question is did AM, MM and JT did enough? My point has always been they need to do more bc they got the talents and they are getting paid to lead the Leafs to win the Cup and not just advance past the first round.
Is it fair to ask AM, JT and MM to do more and not the rest of the team? Well, those three are getting paid the most and it comes with more responsibilities and accountabilities.

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

Wanting our top players to do more doesn’t mean they sucks.
It is like would you rather to have a 10% raise or 25% raise from your bosses or clients?
If you believe that that’s the best out top guys can do and Leafs need better supporting staff, then it will be back to cap allocations and how Leafs is the one of the two teams(I think) to have more than One 10mil plus players and the only team to have THREE 10mil plus players on the team.
Need to check this, but I don’t think any Cup winners or SC finalists in the cap era had THREE of the top SEVEN paid players on their team(excluding TDL additions).
I doubt Dubas will make any big trades nor do I even think there is any deals that make sense without taking a huge step backwards(unless Helle is available), that’s why the top guys need to do more. Is it fair to ask them to do more, well they are making the bank and AM, MM and JT actually make more or just a bit less than all the other forwards combine.

I 100% agree with this. I think looking at it broadly they all did well individually. But when you put them together as a group they have to do more. They are expected to carry the team.

If team Canada doesnt medal in the 2010 olympics would they receive the same sentiment if their core players went ppg. Does it matter how the players played in the round robin ?

The expectation is to win games not get good stats.

 

[Gabriel426]

Leafs top 5 players - 57%
Lightning top 5 - 53%
Avs - 45.5%
Rangers - 53%
Oilers - 49%

It puts more emphasis on finding depth that performs and hopefully the leafs are just about over the hump in having young guys come in and perform to offset it

If you think of it this way if we can get just one guy million or under to outperform their contract to say a 3.4 to 4 million dollar level it can make up the difference. Wait bunting did that.. so it is possible! Thats one

We have bunting outperforming his contract. Very confident giordabo and liljegren can outperform theirs. Thats 3. A marlie is going to make it thisbyear you watch.. robertson or anderson or whomever and that guy will out perform his because he will play in a solid system.

The contract stuff is heavy, but it isnt THE reason. It can tie into some of the reason when you combine it with the bombed pipeline that was there when everyone got paid but they are slowly coming.

Where a problem persists are the cheap bottom depth that runnijg through walls and leading the team as much as from the bottom as the top guys do

Part of the problem is not taking a corey perry when he comes calling or trading for cogliano (i realize he may not have wanted to come).. but those are my examples

Good analysis.
I also think our top guys need to spread into three lines in order for more balance scoring. Leafs have not done that it might be bc of lack of offensive talents or whatever reason.
Also I think outperforming contracts are always key and that’s should not be limit to players making league minimum or under 2mil but also guys like AM and MM

 

[andora]

Good analysis.
I also think our top guys need to spread into three lines in order for more balance scoring. Leafs have not done that it might be bc of lack of offensive talents or whatever reason.
Also I think outperforming contracts are always key and that’s should not be limit to players making league minimum or under 2mil but also guys like AM and MM

You are right it does no absolve them from expectations but it does help them on the ice during games in which they dont have anything going.

 

[robertmac43]

The sad part their 6 time failure is going to put a damper on the season because no matter how well they play we can’t trust them in the playoffs
its going to be a tough year

Yup, the first 82 games are not as exciting as they once were. The team has lost their baby fat and needs to find some playoff success to make regular-season feel worth it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Wanting our top players to do more doesn’t mean they suck.
It is like would you rather to have a 10% raise or 25% raise from your bosses or clients?
If you believe that that’s the best out top guys can do and Leafs need better supporting staff, then it will be back to cap allocations and how Leafs is the one of the two teams(I think) to have more than One 10mil plus players and the only team to have THREE 10mil plus players on the team.
Need to check this, but I don’t think any Cup winners or SC finalists in the cap era had THREE of the top SEVEN paid players on their team(excluding TDL additions).
I doubt Dubas will make any big trades nor do I even think there is any deals that make sense without taking a huge step backwards(unless Helle is available), that’s why the top guys need to do more. Is it fair to ask them to do more, well they are making the bank and AM, MM and JT actually make more or just a bit less than all the other forwards combine.

I didn't say our top players sucked - I said they outperformed the other team's top players. I would be happy to see them do even better, but I don't blame them for the loss. That's on the rest of the team, or more correctly on who assembled them.

Our top players, MM, AM, WN, and MR all earned their paychecks (and yes I know they don't actually get paid for the playoffs).

 

[Dekes For Days]

In the regular season, AM, MM, JT scores 122 goals, they also didn’t play all 82 games due to injuries.
While the rest of the forwards scored 155 goals, that’s also based on an 82 games schedule due to subbing in for injured players.
In the playoffs, AM, MM and JT scored 9 goals while the rest of the forwards scored 10 goals, while two of them were empty net.

For the record, over the 3 years that all of the big 4 have been on their current contracts, those big 4 have produced a higher percentage of overall points on the team in the playoffs than they do in the regular season, despite playing a lesser percentage of games.

 

[TorMapleJays]

For the record, over the 3 years that all of the big 4 have been on their current contracts, those big 4 have produced a higher percentage of overall points on the team in the playoffs than they do in the regular season, despite playing a lesser percentage of games.

Is that because the big 4 are producing higher then their regular season stats, or that the bottom 8 fwds are producing less.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is that because the big 4 are producing higher then their regular season stats, or that the bottom 8 fwds are producing less.

Largely because the other players are producing less.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

You would think Mackinnon being a free agent would be a bigger story, but nope! Bunting!

 

[ACC1224]

You would think Mackinnon being a free agent would be a bigger story, but nope! Bunting!

I doubt very much the Avalanche will have trouble finding cap room for Mackinnon

 

[Racer88]

Tampa won because of their fourth line. The likes of Corey Perry, who wanted to come to Toronto, but unfortunately did not play for the Soo. I mean, Clifford’s former agent was….. Dubas.

Same deal with Talbot and approaching the team.

There is a pattern with this management team.

This is Soo true.

I agree with you that the problem was with secondary players. Even in that, tied for first place in scoring for Tampa was Ross Colton at a staggering cap hit of 1.125MM. This is hardly a compelling argument that salary distribution is the big factor in the leafs losing.
Salaries are not the issue. Ineffective secondary players are.

So what your saying is that Dubas is very poor at identifying and getting lower tier players