OT: Around the NHL: Go Cats Go

[Tom Hanks]

Not what I heard. Most people had Barkov over him before this game, unashamedly. It was even a massive TSN headline "Bobrovsky or Barkov for Conn Smythe?"
Bob is a .909 in these playoffs. Yeah, he had an awesome start to this series, but it's a full playoff award.
Why should he be ahead of a guy who might finish with 40 points? That'd be 4th all-time, only behind Lemieux and Gretzky crap goalie/defense exploitation era numbers.
I mean, Fleury was snubbed for CS with a .933 in 2008.

If Bob gets a shutout next game he goes up to .921 (or letting in one goal would be .919) and Florida wins the Cup. I don’t see him losing it. 2008 was a lowing scoring era by 10% so Bob and Fleury’s numbers would be pretty even.

If it goes to game 6 or game 7 then it’s tougher for Bob’s numbers to rebound from tonights disaster and it’s likely McDavid gets more points.

In conclusion:
If Florida win Game 5 and Edmonton have a low score then BOB WINS.

If the series goes to Game 6 or 7 then McDAVID WINS (regardless of who takes the Stanley Cup).

 

[wizmet12]

Damn, 38 points in 22 games. 7 in 4 games in the Finals.
Probably still gonna lose the Smythe to the guy with 21 atm

Says it all about 2024 that I have to explain to people why this is wrong.

1993 Playoffs.
W.Gretzky (15g, 25a)40pts and guess waht? He's lost the Smythe to P.Roy.

I'm not surprise if Bob still wins it.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If Bob gets a shutout next game he goes up to .921 (or letting in one goal would be .919) and Florida wins the Cup. I don’t see him losing it. 2008 was a lowing scoring era by 10% so Bob and Fleury’s numbers would be pretty even.

If it goes to game 6 or game 7 then it’s tougher for Bob’s numbers to rebound from tonights disaster and it’s likely McDavid gets more points.

In conclusion:
If Florida win Game 5 and Edmonton have a low score then BOB WINS.

If the series goes to Game 6 or 7 then McDAVID WINS (regardless of who takes the Stanley Cup).

Well it depends if we're talking about what should or will happen.

I don't think they're actually gonna give the Smythe to a loser either way. That's happened 5 times in the last 57 years, and not once in the last 20. It's clearly a dishonest award. I think we can agree on that. There's no chance that the best player was on the winning team 52 out of 57 times.

But if we're talking about what the right thing to do here is, I guess the question is what you think the equivalent of a ~40 point Forward is goalie-wise in 2024.
I don't think you're gonna see another 40 point Forward in a playoff run again in the next decade+, unless it's McDavid or Draisaitl themselves. Whereas a .920+ playoff from a goalie who goes 4 rounds is very commonplace and repeatable:
We got .932 from Hill in 2023
.922 from Vasi in 2022
.937 Vasi and .924 from Price in 2021.
.927 Vasi in 2020
The list goes on...

So to me it's evident that the Forward in this case has done more relative to his position/role than the goalie. By a longshot, really. It should be a slam dunk, if voters gave a crap about fairness.

I'm not surprise if Bob still wins it.

I won't be surprised either. This award has been mismanaged a very long time, sadly.

 

[Rossi Rat]

He is dominating the league in a way we haven't seen since Lemieux from the standpoint of an individual contributor. I get the argument if you are saying "because of today's expanded league, etc etc".

I'd argue that the league is incredibly diluted right now and that is why you are seeing players like Kucherov put up 140+ too.

That being said, I think Kucherov has an argument over Malkin at this point as the 2nd best Russian to ever play in the NHL which is wild.

For that matter, the duo of McDavid/Draisatl > the duo of Sid/Geno. Didn’t think we’d get one upped so quickly. Just like we damn near got one upped by Tampa coming closer to 3-peating just a few years after us. Now, surely Edmonton won’t pass us in cups… right? Not likely they do this year but you’re just straight up lying to yourself if you really don’t think McDavid will win a cup. It took Lemieux almost this long, too.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Yeah. Think im ready to admit connor is better than Crosby. And will surely pass him all time with a cup

I really want lemieuxs 44 to stay second all time though

 

[Tom Hanks]

Well it depends if we're talking about what should or will happen.

I don't think they're actually gonna give the Smythe to a loser either way. That's happened 5 times in the last 57 years, and not once in the last 20. It's clearly a dishonest award. I think we can agree on that. There's no chance that the best player was on the winning team 52 out of 57 times.

But if we're talking about what the right thing to do here is, I guess the question is what you think the equivalent of a ~40 point Forward is goalie-wise in 2024.
I don't think you're gonna see another 40 point Forward in a playoff run again in the next decade+, unless it's McDavid or Draisaitl themselves. Whereas a .920+ playoff from a goalie who goes 4 rounds is very commonplace and repeatable:
We got .932 from Hill in 2023
.922 from Vasi in 2022
.937 Vasi and .924 from Price in 2021.
.927 Vasi in 2020
The list goes on...

So to me it's evident that the Forward in this case has done more relative to his position/role than the goalie. By a longshot, really. It should be a slam dunk, if voters gave a crap about fairness.


I won't be surprised either. This award has been mismanaged a very long time, sadly.

Because it’s the NHL the voters can vote for who is most valuable for their team. It can get pretty subjective.

Personally I think if Bob has a great game 5 he’s a worthy Conn Smythe winner and it’s who I’d give it too. If it goes to McDavid he’s worthy too.

Also if I was a voter I would weight winning the cup higher because winning the cup is inherently more valuable to a team than losing a cup.

 

[End of Line]

Damn, 38 points in 22 games. 7 in 4 games in the Finals.
Probably still gonna lose the Smythe to the guy with 21 atm

Says it all about 2024 that I have to explain to people why this is wrong.

Do you ever shut the f*** up?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Because it’s the NHL the voters can vote for who is most valuable for their team. It can get pretty subjective.

Personally I think if Bob has a great game 5 he’s a worthy Conn Smythe winner and it’s who I’d give it too. If it goes to McDavid he’s worthy too.

Also if I was a voter I would weight winning the cup higher because winning the cup is inherently more valuable to a team than losing a cup.

I'm trying to say that it's not the voters having different opinions that leads to this, but rather that they are voting based on what the feel-good story is...aka the winning team's best player.
They often vote against what they know is right. That's my issue here.

Like in 2016 when Sid won with 11 fewer points and even a worse Final than Couture. He got that because he's the face of the league, not because the voters actually believed he had a better playoff.
It's simply not good optics giving the trophy to someone who just lost and is miserable on camera. That weighs into the voting, heavily.
And thus, the meta became to just disregard losers by default, because every other voter is doing it and you don't wanna look silly on the tally at the end.

If what I'm saying was wrong then losers wouldn't have won only 5 out of the last 57 Smythes. It's just not done fairly, like many things in this life.
Humans are inherently corrupt, so it's to be expected.

Do you ever shut the f*** up?

Have you made any thoughtful posts since 2009?

 

[Empoleon8771]

McDavid stat-padding in games that are already over, I’m absolutely shocked.

 

[Gurglesons]

For that matter, the duo of McDavid/Draisatl > the duo of Sid/Geno. Didn’t think we’d get one upped so quickly. Just like we damn near got one upped by Tampa coming closer to 3-peating just a few years after us. Now, surely Edmonton won’t pass us in cups… right? Not likely they do this year but you’re just straight up lying to yourself if you really don’t think McDavid will win a cup. It took Lemieux almost this long, too.

Not sure how McDavid / Drai as a duo is better than Sid / Geno. Unless they somehow do the impossible and win this SCF.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I'm trying to say that it's not the voters having different opinions that leads to this, but rather that they are voting based on what the feel-good story is...aka the winning team's best player.
They often vote against what they know is right. That's my issue here.

Like in 2016 when Sid won with 11 fewer points and even a worse Final than Couture. He got that because he's the face of the league, not because the voters actually believed he had a better playoff.
It's simply not good optics giving the trophy to someone who just lost and is miserable on camera. That weighs into the voting, heavily.
And thus, the meta became to just disregard losers by default, because every other voter is doing it and you don't wanna look silly on the tally at the end.

If what I'm saying was wrong then losers wouldn't have won only 5 out of the last 57 Smythes. It's just not done fairly, like many things in this life.
Humans are inherently corrupt, so it's to be expected.


Have you made any thoughtful posts since 2009?

Maybe you are wrong because it’s THEIR opinion on the players value to the team.

Winning the cup isn’t a feel good story it’s what everyone is striving for which is why the Conn Smythe almost always goes to the winning team because that’s highly valuable.

You don’t see it that way but the voters aren’t wrong seeing it that way because of how it’s written.

Conn Smythe is down to a race of 2 for me, for you it’s 1. Anyways no one is budging here so I bid you ado on this topic.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maybe you are wrong because it’s THEIR opinion on the players value to the team.

Yeah that's the funny part of this whole meltdown. The interpretation of what the award means is entirely subjective and up to the voters. This is not a "most points wins the trophy" like the Art Ross, it's entirely up to the subjective interpretation of the meaning of the award by the voters.

It's the same thing as the speeding comment I said a few days ago. The people who decide what "speeding" is are the ones who are enforcing and interpreting the laws. It's the same way with the voting here, the people who decide what the Conn Smythe is awarded for are the ones who are voting for it. Which makes the whole "everyone else is voting on it wrong!" argument nothing but pure arrogance.

 

[Rave7215]

Yeah. Think im ready to admit connor is better than Crosby. And will surely pass him all time with a cup

I really want lemieuxs 44 to stay second all time though

Get out of here with this shit. McDavid doesn't belong in the conversation until he wins something on a large stage. You and Aurora can take your McDavid glazing over to the Oilers board as a consolation when Florida wins the cup.

 

[Empoleon8771]

McDavid isn't ahead of Crosby on the overall rankings yet, and him putting up some low value points in games that are already over doesn't change that. But at the same time, McDavid has already shown that he's a "better" player than Crosby was. I don't think that's controversial whatsoever.

Crosby has had the more accomplished career, hence what makes him still above McDavid in the overall rankings. But in terms of who is "better", McDavid has clearly shown that at this point.

Edit: and to clarify, when I say "low value points", I mean points that don't have a notable impact on a win. I know MLB has a stat called "win probability added", but we can track that in the NHL on sites like moneypuck as well.

McDavid had points on the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th goals last night. In terms of win probability added, here's what those looked like:

4th: Increase by 6.5%
5th: Increase by 10.2%
6th: Increase by 0.02%
7th: Increase by 0%

And if you look at game 3, here were how McDavid's 2 points in the 3rd increased their odds at winning:

1st: Increase by 3.76%
2nd: Increase by 9.15%

This is what I mean when I say "low value points". He's putting up points that tangibly don't have an impact on the game, because the game is either already lost or already won. People will cling to his impressive points total to say he has had a great series, but he's just farming low value points in games that are basically already over.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Maybe you are wrong because it’s THEIR opinion on the players value to the team.

Winning the cup isn’t a feel good story it’s what everyone is striving for which is why the Conn Smythe almost always goes to the winning team because that’s highly valuable.

You don’t see it that way but the voters aren’t wrong seeing it that way because of how it’s written.

Conn Smythe is down to a race of 2 for me, for you it’s 1. Anyways no one is budging here so I bid you ado on this topic.

If you trust that they are actually deciding based on their opinion of who's been better, yes. I don't have that much faith in them. I think there's corruption there, in order to support what looks good for the league.
I think most of them know when a loser was better in the playoffs and they vote for the player on the winning team anyway.

If what you're saying was true and they were actually doing their best to be objective, you wouldn't get a 52-5 disparity over these 57 years. That's a 10-1 ratio.

A team becomes a winner through contributions of the entire team. It is extremely possible to be like twice as good as everyone else as a Forward and still lose, because your team weighed you down too much. That's why it's nonsense to suggest that that player is less valuable because he lost. He only controls a small portion of the outcome.
On the flipside, a player wasn't more valuable in the playoffs just because his team won either. You have to have measurable contributions towards winning, not just win.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This whole McDavid performance in the finals this year just reminds me of when Penguins fans would argue that Neal was actually good for the Penguins in the playoffs. "Neal had a great series, he had 6 points in 5 games" while ignoring that 5 of Neal's points game in back to back 8-5 and 8-4 losses

Neal did that in both 2012 and 2013, when he had 7 points in back to back 7-3 and 6-2 wins against Ottawa. Take out those 4 playoff games and Neal had 10 points in 34 playoff games for the Penguins.

 

[Turin]

Screw McDavid and screw all the posters here glazing him so they can look unbiased to Edmonton lurkers or whatever they’re hoping to accomplish. Where’s the pride smh. One big stat pad game and the usual suspects log back in. Especially Rossi who for some reason only posts about McDavid.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Screw McDavid and screw all the posters here glazing him so they can look unbiased to Edmonton lurkers or whatever they’re hoping to accomplish. Where’s the pride smh. One big stat pad game and the usual suspects log back in. Especially Rossi who for some reason only posts about McDavid.

For a one off Game 7 Cup Final I’d still take Crosby over McDavid.

That hasn’t changed yet. Maybe that’ll change at the end of next season but not yet.

 

[66-30-33]

I didn't watch the 3rd period, did Oilers still roll out the top PP unit in the 3rd? I remember when Florida was up 5-1 they rolled out some rando PP guys instead, game was already over.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Edit: already posted

 

[Gurglesons]

Screw McDavid and screw all the posters here glazing him so they can look unbiased to Edmonton lurkers or whatever they’re hoping to accomplish. Where’s the pride smh. One big stat pad game and the usual suspects log back in. Especially Rossi who for some reason only posts about McDavid.

He’s scored the most assists ever in a playoff run. It’s not stat padding lol

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Get out of here with this shit. McDavid doesn't belong in the conversation until he wins something on a large stage. You and Aurora can take your McDavid glazing over to the Oilers board as a consolation when Florida wins the cup.

Nate is just a silly troll, don't mind his cosplay. We can hope he finds his lightsaber or scurries back to the main boards.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

What the actual f*** is it with the NHL scheduling of the final? Two day break between games the entire series? The fact the finals could stretch until the end of June if it goes 7 games is an absolute joke considering how soon it could have started.

 

[Tom Hanks]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1802808794973368716

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1802808794973368716

I'll be honest. I didn't even know he was the coach of the BJs.

Shows how little I followed that team.