Around The NHL Discussion 2020-21

[The Note]

Colorado is probably the second best team in the league. I would be surprised if they don’t win the division fairly easily.

 

[MissouriMook]

I still don’t get all the angst over our D relative to other contenders in the league. Is it as solid as two seasons ago? No. Can the newly acquired balance help offset some of the talent drain? I think it can.

Look at Boston. They’ve got McAvoy and either five “just-a-guy”s or Charasaurus (aka a dinosaur) and four “just-a-guy”s. I don’t see anyone referring to them as pretenders because they lost one or two key guys on the blueline. The Caps don’t have much after Carlson. The Pens won the Cup once with Letang and a bunch of plugs and once with six plugs when Letang was hurt.

I know those teams all have or had one or two higher end forwards than we have, but our insane forward depth has always balanced out favorably against the teams with one or two high end forwards. To me it is all about whether Binny gets his groove back and if someone else can step up and replace Tarasenko’s scoring until he is back and returns to form. The defense won’t be as stout in their own end but they should be Top 5 in transitioning the puck out of their end.

 

[Thallis]

I still don’t get all the angst over our D relative to other contenders in the league. Is it as solid as two seasons ago? No. Can the newly acquired balance help offset some of the talent drain? I think it can.

Look at Boston. They’ve got McAvoy and either five “just-a-guy”s or Charasaurus (aka a dinosaur) and four “just-a-guy”s. I don’t see anyone referring to them as pretenders because they lost one or two key guys on the blueline. The Caps don’t have much after Carlson. The Pens won the Cup once with Letang and a bunch of plugs and once with six plugs when Letang was hurt.

I know those teams all have or had one or two higher end forwards than we have, but our insane forward depth has always balanced out favorably against the teams with one or two high end forwards. To me it is all about whether Binny gets his groove back and if someone else can step up and replace Tarasenko’s scoring until he is back and returns to form. The defense won’t be as stout in their own end but they should be Top 5 in transitioning the puck out of their end.

They have much higher end talent at forward and in goal. Our team was built around the defense and just took a big hit without the ability to compensate elsewhere. People are also raising question marks about Boston right now too without Krug.

 

[Brockon]

i don’t completely disagree, but our defensive strength isn’t just our d-men - it is also our system and a whole bunch of forwards willing to put the work in on the defensive side of the puck

I'm not saying that we won't make the playoffs. Simply trying to point out the regression we're going to see and contradict the dismissal of Colorado right out of hand...

But relative to forward core stepping up and playing in a tight system... Steen was a part of that too. Tarasenko was playing much more of a two-way game than in past years before he got hurt in 2019-20. Perron isn't a spring chicken and neither is Bozak. I don't expect Perron to replicate his scoring from the past 2 years for us.

I think we're going to see some more regression as a 2 way team with the chemistry upset. And as a team that struggled to score, with increased scouting against us (as now teams need to prep for 7 teams, not 30) I think that's going to play against us.

Binnington looked completely undone in the bubble. With more time to scout fewer teams, I think we're going to be very exploitable outside of our forecheck - the better coaches are going to shine this season for how well they can adapt to each team's specific weaknesses.

 

[Stlblue50]

I know the official announcement to return just happened and the the schedule isn’t out yet but was curious if anyone has heard anything about the possibility of limited capacity being allowed at Enterprise?

It never really crossed my mind as a possibility probably because I was just waiting on if there was even going to be a season or not. Then when you think about how Missouri has very low restrictions on a state level compared to other states. I realize the St. Louis mayor is a Democrat/pro lockdown but I’m now wondering if there is a chance for a few thousand fans a game?

 

[The Note]

I know the official announcement to return just happened and the the schedule isn’t out yet but was curious if anyone has heard anything about the possibility of limited capacity being allowed at Enterprise?

It never really crossed my mind as a possibility probably because I was just waiting on if there was even going to be a season or not. Then when you think about how Missouri has very low restrictions on a state level compared to other states. I realize the St. Louis mayor is a Democrat/pro lockdown but I’m now wondering if there is a chance for a few thousand fans a game?

I doubt the city is going to let 1,000s in the stadium at this point or any point in the near future. Maybe by the end of the season/playoffs pending what the vaccine situation is at that point but that still seems hopeful.

 

[Xerloris]

They have much higher end talent at forward and in goal. Our team was built around the defense and just took a big hit without the ability to compensate elsewhere. People are also raising question marks about Boston right now too without Krug.

Much higher end talent in goal? If only there was some way we could play the Bruins in a best of 7 series and see which goalie would come out on top.

 

[Ranksu]

I doubt the city is going to let 1,000s in the stadium at this point or any point in the near future. Maybe by the end of the season/playoffs pending what the vaccine situation is at that point but that still seems hopeful.

I highly doubt we'll see people in games until everybody are vaccinated. Question is it end of 2021 or 2022.

In news in here Finland we had info nobody doesnt get free pass/VIP treatment to get vaccine, not even athletics.

We are now playing hockey in Finland, had 2 week break,'cus spread. Now we are playing to empty seats. I dont think we are that bad in Finland how to handle covid and we've hard time to keep hockey and covid free together.

Calm me pessimistic, but I'm shocked if NHL can go so called 56 games + playoffs without cancelling it or postponed games. If not I raise my hat.

Oh wait we who are in priority #1 can go. So who are front line helping covid patient + 70-yeard old + who has underlying disease(s). So should I book flight and @Robb_K we are on going to Bluesgame!

Maybe Army give tickets to games. Like he said he has free tickets.

 

[Thallis]

Much higher end talent in goal? If only there was some way we could play the Bruins in a best of 7 series and see which goalie would come out on top.

Do you think this is a good point or are you being cheeky?

 

[The Note]

TBL signed Rutta and Cernak. Something has to be about to give down there.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Sheary to the Capitals for $735K

 

[Linkens Mastery]

TBL signed Rutta and Cernak. Something has to be about to give down there.

Kuch to LTIR.

 

[Xerloris]

Do you think this is a good point or are you being cheeky?

I don't know how you can classify high end talent when you ignore the most important game in the life of either of those players and one of them clearly outperformed the other.

 

[Thallis]

I don't know how you can classify high end talent when you ignore the most important game in the life of either of those players and one of them clearly outperformed the other.

It's a single game. With different teams in front of them. With varying levels of health. Tuuka Rask has a long history of being an elite goalie. Binnington has a half season of elite play, an average playoff and season, and a really bad playoff.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

TBL signed Rutta and Cernak. Something has to be about to give down there.

Kucherov and hell maybe Stamkos to IR. Crazy thing is that they are maybe the best team even minus both of those players.

 

[Xerloris]

It's a single game. With different teams in front of them. With varying levels of health. Tuuka Rask has a long history of being an elite goalie. Binnington has a half season of elite play, an average playoff and season, and a really bad playoff.

Binnington won game 7 for us in Boston, he outperformed Rask in every aspect. Rask played so poorly I would probably say he flat out choked and that would be twice he had a chance to backstop the Bruins to a cup and he choked. He can perform and get all the regular season awards his heart could ever desire and all of the accolades that you claim make him a much higher end talent than Binnington but the fact is, Binnington backstopped his team to the cup and rask didn't.

 

[The Note]

I still don’t get all the angst over our D relative to other contenders in the league. Is it as solid as two seasons ago? No. Can the newly acquired balance help offset some of the talent drain? I think it can.

Look at Boston. They’ve got McAvoy and either five “just-a-guy”s or Charasaurus (aka a dinosaur) and four “just-a-guy”s. I don’t see anyone referring to them as pretenders because they lost one or two key guys on the blueline. The Caps don’t have much after Carlson. The Pens won the Cup once with Letang and a bunch of plugs and once with six plugs when Letang was hurt.

I know those teams all have or had one or two higher end forwards than we have, but our insane forward depth has always balanced out favorably against the teams with one or two high end forwards. To me it is all about whether Binny gets his groove back and if someone else can step up and replace Tarasenko’s scoring until he is back and returns to form. The defense won’t be as stout in their own end but they should be Top 5 in transitioning the puck out of their end.

This seems like quite the undersell given the teams you mention in your post. Those teams all had/have Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Bergeron, Marchand, and Pastrnak. The Blues don't have anyone in the same stratosphere as most of those guys (I can see an argument for ROR > Kuznetsov but that's about it). Those teams also all had strong forward depth similar to the Blues. I would agree that the worry about the defense is somewhat overblown, though I think there is certainly reason to be skeptical of its effectiveness. My concern is that a team already short on high end talent has lost/doesn't know what they'll get out of two of their few high end pieces in conjunction with the defense likely being weaker than it has been in years past.

 

[Thallis]

Binnington won game 7 for us in Boston, he outperformed Rask in every aspect. Rask played so poorly I would probably say he flat out choked and that would be twice he had a chance to backstop the Bruins to a cup and he choked. He can perform and get all the regular season awards his heart could ever desire and all of the accolades that you claim make him a much higher end talent than Binnington but the fact is, Binnington backstopped his team to the cup and rask didn't.

Swap the goalies that series and it doesn't go to game 7. Play that game 10 times and Rask will win 7 of them. We got the 1 that we needed, but acting like it reflects on the overall quality of either goalie is completely crazy to me [mod].

 

[MissouriMook]

This seems like quite the undersell given the teams you mention in your post. Those teams all had/have Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Bergeron, Marchand, and Pastrnak. The Blues don't have anyone in the same stratosphere as most of those guys (I can see an argument for ROR > Kuznetsov but that's about it). Those teams also all had strong forward depth similar to the Blues. I would agree that the worry about the defense is somewhat overblown, though I think there is certainly reason to be skeptical of its effectiveness. My concern is that a team already short on high end talent has lost/doesn't know what they'll get out of two of their few high end pieces in conjunction with the defense likely being weaker than it has been in years past.

Agree to disagree. The Caps are the only one in that group I see as being close to the Blues in terms of depth with Backstrom, Kuznetsov and Oshie behind Ovie, but aside from Vrana it drops off pretty much after that. Against teams like Tampa, Boston and Pittsburgh, we have generally had a lot of success shutting down a top line with our checking line and take care of business because the teams with the high end forward talent can't match up with us in the middle 6.

If we get a healthy Tarasenko back, add a scoring winger to start the season, and add those two players on top of ROR, Schenn, Schwartz, Perron, Thomas and even Sanford, I don't see a team in the league that could match our talent through the top three lines. It remains to be seen how Clifford will gel with Sunny and Barbie, but I still see them being one of the premier 4th lines in the game. If anything is being undersold, I believe it is how our forward depth matches up against the rest of the league. We may have to win a few more games 4-3 instead of 3-2 or 2-1 but I still expect us to be a top tier team in the West and would put us up against any team in the league in a 7 game series if 2019 Binnington returns.

 

[The Note]

Agree to disagree. The Caps are the only one in that group I see as being close to the Blues in terms of depth with Backstrom, Kuznetsov and Oshie behind Ovie, but aside from Vrana it drops off pretty much after that. Against teams like Tampa, Boston and Pittsburgh, we have generally had a lot of success shutting down a top line with our checking line and take care of business because the teams with the high end forward talent can't match up with us in the middle 6.

If we get a healthy Tarasenko back, add a scoring winger to start the season, and add those two players on top of ROR, Schenn, Schwartz, Perron, Thomas and even Sanford, I don't see a team in the league that could match our talent through the top three lines. It remains to be seen how Clifford will gel with Sunny and Barbie, but I still see them being one of the premier 4th lines in the game. If anything is being undersold, I believe it is how our forward depth matches up against the rest of the league. We may have to win a few more games 4-3 instead of 3-2 or 2-1 but I still expect us to be a top tier team in the West and would put us up against any team in the league in a 7 game series if 2019 Binnington returns.

I agree that if they sign Hoffman and if Tarasenko comes back close to what he has been for most of his career, the forward group would look much better. I would still disagree with the bolded as I think there quite a few teams who are as good or better in their top 9. Certainly as it stands, and even if Hoffman is signed. But yes, the forward group would look much better with those two in it, no doubt.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Haula and Granlund signing with the Preds probably increases the chance that Hoffman could come to St Louis. Also makes it that much trickier for teams like Vegas to sort out their cap issues.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Tampa just announced Kucherov is out all year with a hip injury. Guess that clears up their cap space issues then.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

I highly doubt we'll see people in games until everybody are vaccinated. Question is it end of 2021 or 2022.

In news in here Finland we had info nobody doesnt get free pass/VIP treatment to get vaccine, not even athletics.

We are now playing hockey in Finland, had 2 week break,'cus spread. Now we are playing to empty seats. I dont think we are that bad in Finland how to handle covid and we've hard time to keep hockey and covid free together.

Calm me pessimistic, but I'm shocked if NHL can go so called 56 games + playoffs without cancelling it or postponed games. If not I raise my hat.

Oh wait we who are in priority #1 can go. So who are front line helping covid patient + 70-yeard old + who has underlying disease(s). So should I book flight and @Robb_K we are on going to Bluesgame!

Maybe Army give tickets to games. Like he said he has free tickets.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that is true. Unless you are talking about sellout crowds. There will be a few thousand in most of the buildings by March 1. Whether anyone reading this agrees it should happen or not.

 

[Meatball]

I agree that if they sign Hoffman and if Tarasenko comes back close to what he has been for most of his career, the forward group would look much better. I would still disagree with the bolded as I think there quite a few teams who are as good or better in their top 9. Certainly as it stands, and even if Hoffman is signed. But yes, the forward group would look much better with those two in it, no doubt.

Our forward group as it now reminds me of the Hitch years, but with a much, much better and actually #1 center in ROR. I recall for years how much we coveted a guy like him back then and now we have him!

I've said it before, with tears in my eyes, and I'll say it again proudly: RYAN O'REILLY IS ON MY TEAM!

Behind him, the team depth that we have now easily surpasses the teams of those years, and those teams always performed well in the regular season, but the playoffs were another matter.

I see this forward group as a little better than the Hitch years, which means the playoffs are, at worst, within reason, and at best, we clinch the #1-2 seed in this division.

That said, for us to be a cup contender (again!), and considering the "step back" (and I don't think there is, tbh...sue me, I'm a Blues fan dammit!) on defense, we're going to need to make up the balance up front.

A healthy Tarasenko and a guy like Hoffman put us right back to where we were in 2019 talent-wise, overall, all things considered. I think a healthy Tank alone does it, and while it's a big IF, it's still within the realm of possibility that he comes back just as good as before. Hoffman is more remote. Maybe we get him, maybe we don't.

Seriously, I can't believe some of you pessimists.

Look at this team! We have no reason to be upset.

 

[mk80]

Overall I think this will be an adjustment year as the newcomers make their marks, and the younger guys fill their expanded roles. We are definitely a playoff team. I think we are going to be battling with Vegas all year for the 2nd place spot in the division.