GDT: Around the NHL: Congrats to The Jerks on their SC win

[Zirakzigil]

Sid, Geno and Staal now all Conn Smythe winners. That 2009 team just looks more and more impressive.

He had 11 points in 10 games after round 2. He was pretty consistent. I mean, it generally happens that you face stronger defenses in the last 2 rounds. So yes, expect a dip. He still did really well though.

And if we're taking a close look at prior rounds, please do the same for Staal.
Not just the player who will support your view.
No one mentioned Staal until the Final.

People talk about this "losing effort Smythe" stuff a lot. But the problem is the NHL never actually wrote that losers have to have it like 33%-50% harder. This bs came out of thin air.
So I'm gonna apply some fantasy narrative when I judge this. I'll just follow the guidelines, like the voters are supposed to do.

I realize that it got progressively more warped over time, compared to what the creators of the Smythe intended. Corruption and agendas set in.
It looks bad when losers win it.

Doesn't mean this crap should be allowed and encouraged.
If you write rules, follow them.
If you can't, rewrite them. All I ask.

Don't just randomly create new criteria that were never written.
This concept of "you need to do 2x more as a loser" shouldn't even exist in people's heads.
It's the product of a f***ed up system over a prolonged period of time. Brainwashing.

I just don't agree. The most important stat in pro sports is Wins. Everyone on the Canes won. That's worth a lot of points against the Ducks in round 2. It's not some weird agenda. Its actual statistical value that their team brought that the players on other teams didn't. I also think its completely valid to weigh later rounds higher even though its a whole playoff award. Teams get better and games get more important.

One thing to remember is anybody who writes about or critiques something always wanted to do it professionally if they havent done it already. Whether thats film, music, literature, sports, you name it. Second is everyone likes a good story and narrative. Staal and his christian faith and 14 years between cups and blah blah basically writes itself.

But yeah the trophy description should be changed to “mvp on the winning team”.
Also Greg Wyshinsky was on the panel. You know, the guy that called Crosby a “villain” and threw hissy fit anytime Ovie choked in a game 7.

well that's just plain not true?

Of course it's generalizing and anecdotal, but that's my experience after hanging out with music promoters, managers, low level producers, etc. Along with every jabroni on his youtube channel complaining about xyz movie and how he could make it better. Not saying it's a bad thing, just an explanation why emotional narratives trump all even with something as banal as sports journalism.

It's definitely hardcore leaning towards winners and highly ignorant of R1 to R3, despite that never existing in the trophy's criteria.
That means it's highly agenda driven.

38 out of 40 proved something is very wrong.

You shouldn't switch winners in your head just because of a different outcome for a team in the final 2 games of the SCF. That is not logical or in the spirit of fairness.
That is not analysis of a player's full run. That is simply cheating the rules because you want a Stanley Cup champion.

And we all know Staal had 0% chance if he lost, even if he was the best Cane in games 6 and 7.
That's how f***ed up it all is.

Is it? Because I remember not facing our best opponents in the SCF in 3 of our 5 Cup years.
Seems like an honest system should weigh it on a year to year basis to me. And they've never done that.
They just have a diamond hard-on for Finals.
The 3rd round means very little with voting.

I just don’t agree that it’s a problem in any way.

Not sure how Staal isn’t the go to Smythe winner.

That is your right. I'm anti-corruption though.
You want me to adjust to the corrupted norm, of people who didn't follow the guidelines.
Not gonna do that. They were wrong to do it then and they are wrong to do it now.

Follow the rules or rewrite them. Easy.

If all of Stank and Ehlers and Blake had Aho/Svech #s, then it would've been Hall. But those four I think were all sorta lumped together in terms of impact/effectiveness.



By this criteria, Conn Smyth should go to a goalie every single time.

It's true that they have the most impact. But also a lot of what they do is standing around doing nothing.
It's definitely tricky to choose a winner when comparing apples and oranges positions. I don't deny that.
But Marner vs Blake and Hall is winger vs winger. Makes it easy for us this year, when comparing those.
Staal is a Forward too, although a Center.

My problem is that the voters don't even make an effort to get it right. Staal over Marner is just shitting on the written trophy criteria.
17 point gap and comparable defense. Just a crazy choice.
It clearly has no meaning anymore. You just can pick whoever, as long as they win and and have a good Final.

The league has shamed itself here. The most egregious case of getting it wrong in my lifetime, pretty sure.

Is this a personal thing against Staal? I mean i agree with you in spirit but it seems a but aggressive.

Some people like to argue and beat a dead horse.

Corruption is just such an overly dramatic description of disagreeing with what others see as valuable. Like, this can’t be a legitimate take at this point.

Yah, he was more dominant, but no way were the voters not going to give that Ovi, he did perform well enough to deserve it. But Kuzy scared me more.

 

[plaidchuck]

Jon Cooper getting coach of the year for opening and closing the bench door for Kucherov is more infuriating I'd say.

 

[PensandCaps]

Wish there is an alternate timeline where we keep Staal and still add Kessel, and never get rid of Fleury.

5 teammates on the same team for 20+ years.

 

[eXile3]

Jon Cooper getting coach of the year for opening and closing the bench door for Kucherov is more infuriating I'd say.

If we’re being honest that’s what most coaches do.

 

[plaidchuck]

If we’re being honest that’s what most coaches do.

When you have enough talent, sure. All the more reason it was an odd pick considering Carberry got it the year before for the exact same thing Muse did. Bednar I would've found acceptable since they basically had the pres trophy locked up in January.

 

[TNT87]

 

[tom_servo]

The Conn Smythe is rarely given to a losing player because no one wants to see a sad face accepting the trophy.

To make it more objective it needs to be awarded after the season.

 

[BHD]

I’m glad Staal won the Conn Smythe. It was like he knew it was possibly his last opportunity to win again. So to see him hoist the Cup and receive the award is great.

However, I’m a firm believer on awarding it from start to finish. Staal was effective throughout the playoffs, but he only really turned it on during the final. Yet I can’t really think of another player who really stood out enough to get consideration. Hall is the only other guy for Carolina.

Furthermore, I’m not sure how I feel about Msrner. It was there for the taking - win or lose - up until the final three games. Hard to give it to him when he was a reason the Knights came up short.

Edit: that said, if you are someone who thinks it can be awarded based on one round, Staal definitely deserved it.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

that said, if you are someone who thinks it can be awarded based on one round, Staal definitely deserved it.

Agreed. He would deserve it in that case.
But if anyone believes that only the Finals should matter, that's in direct conflict with the stated criteria on the trophy.
It would be like if you gave the Rocket to someone who didn't have the most goals, because on a whim you decided that you want the criteria to be different. And then voters followed your lead.
Just can't do that. That's corruption. Follow the rules or change them, if you can't follow them.

 

[PensFutures]

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

I’m just glad it wasn’t Vegas who won

f*** them, f*** Torts, and f*** Hart

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Flew back in from London yesterday, was super happy to see the Vegas Golden Turds lose, f*** Staal and his family, but happy to see Jarvis and Stankoven be Cup winners, also K'Andre Miller, the bloke taken by the Rags with a Penguins pick, escaped playing for Sullivan altogether and won a cup, good on ya.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's sad, last I heard of him he was coaching youth hockey and he's just 47, still very young.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Staal winning the most pathetic CS I have ever seen seems about right at least to me... two of the worst possible teams to have made it from my point of view. Despise both. No winners. I do not look forward to dull, robotic, play-not-to-lose hockey from all the copycats moving ahead.

 

[plaidchuck]

Staal winning the most pathetic CS I have ever seen seems about right at least to me... two of the worst possible teams to have made it from my point of view. Despise both. No winners. I do not look forward to dull, robotic, play-not-to-lose hockey from all the copycats moving ahead.

Yeah hilariously bad season quality wise from the league. Eastern conference was an absolute joke and sadly the only reason the pens got in.

 

[plaidchuck]

So on that note, thoughts on the Penguins attendance problem? It was even lower this year with a playoff berth and playoff attendance was some of the lowest and that’s with the first two games at home.

Retirement of core players is just around the corner. The Hoffmans have their work cut out for them.

 

[Andy99]

So on that note, thoughts on the Penguins attendance problem? It was even lower this year with a playoff berth and playoff attendance was some of the lowest and that’s with the first two games at home.

Retirement of core players is just around the corner. The Hoffmans have their work cut out for them.

The Pens need a new exciting young player to build around and bring in the fans…we could use McKenna just for the attendance alone

 

[plaidchuck]

The Pens need a new exciting young player to build around and bring in the fans…we could use McKenna just for the attendance alone

Well yeah I’m talking the interim before they hit rock bottom. I think that could even be next year if the east even modestly does better

 

[Randy Butternubs]

So on that note, thoughts on the Penguins attendance problem? It was even lower this year with a playoff berth and playoff attendance was some of the lowest and that’s with the first two games at home.

Shit ain't cheap. Make it more affordable and more people would go. Hell, when I had a decent paying job I didn't feel like paying those prices.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Shit ain't cheap. Make it more affordable and more people would go. Hell, when I had a decent paying job I didn't feel like paying those prices.

Was going to post just this. Price is a huge barrier.

 

[Freeptop]

I admit, I didn't see this coming, but I'm also going to admit I can't help but laugh a bit at this

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

lol

"Yeah so... we here in Vegas take a lot of pride in being the biggest douchelords we possibly can be on any given day. Just... absolutely miserable people with horrible opinions and a real talent for treating people like dirt. But my GOODNESS this guy takes it to a whole new level. We honestly didn't even want to thank him but it turns out we are required to... crazy right? Anyway yeah we're firing the guy we basically JUST hired who got us to the Cup -- I think that really says it all, yeah? The guy is like a walking f***ing carbuncle. A goddamned boil on the ass of humanity. Look at him! These are the nicest pictures we could find and he STILL looks like the dude who is always in front of you at the grocery store screaming at an employee about an expired coupon or something. Anyway happy trails dickhead!"

 

[plaidchuck]

2018 expansion killed whatever little this league had left.

 

[tom_servo]

Agreed. He would deserve it in that case.
But if anyone believes that only the Finals should matter, that's in direct conflict with the stated criteria on the trophy.
It would be like if you gave the Rocket to someone who didn't have the most goals, because on a whim you decided that you want the criteria to be different. And then voters followed your lead.
Just can't do that. That's corruption. Follow the rules or change them, if you can't follow them.

I think you can negotiate "value" a lot easier than goal totals. Some voters probably apply more weight to later rounds, all around play, and good old-fashioned leadership.

 

[Icarium]

It would be like if you gave the Rocket to someone who didn't have the most goals, because on a whim you decided that you want the criteria to be different. And then voters followed your lead.
Just can't do that. That's corruption. Follow the rules or change them, if you can't follow them.

If we go by the literal definition of the trophies both the Hart and Conn Smythe would be won by goaltenders in each and every season. They aren't so, I don't get acting like not following the literal definition is some new phenomenon rather than what the voters have been doing from the start.