Around the NHL 2023-24 - offseason part II

[My3Sons]

He should be able to pass at least one of the two worthless shitbag goalies they have signed this year and get an NHL job.

Woah, whoah. Look I get it that you have always been a staunch supporter or Blackwood and Vanacek. Who can forget that time you serenaded Blackwood in Florida with that high praise? But just because San Jose went out and got a younger guy is no reason to call Askarov a shitbag.

 

[Triumph]

Grier has done a great job at the macro level - honestly, really can't do a better job - but I think he's done a relatively poor job at the micro level. I don't think he's optimized the returns on almost any of his trades until today. We'll see if he gets better at the micro level as the team improves - you don't have to be great at the micro level to succeed (and you can make huge macro mistakes).

 

[Nubmer6]

Woah, whoah. Look I get it that you have always been a staunch supporter or Blackwood and Vanacek. Who can forget that time you serenaded Blackwood in Florida with that high praise? But just because San Jose went out and got a younger guy is no reason to call Askarov a shitbag.

 

[My3Sons]

GFY

 

[bossram]

Grier has done a great job at the macro level - honestly, really can't do a better job - but I think he's done a relatively poor job at the micro level. I don't think he's optimized the returns on almost any of his trades until today. We'll see if he gets better at the micro level as the team improves - you don't have to be great at the micro level to succeed (and you can make huge macro mistakes).

Agree with that assessment. But at the rebuild level, it's probably more important to be directionally correct than maximizing the margins.

When you're a contender, getting every edge becomes more important.

 

[NJDevs26]

He really is. Plus his ego and he gets rattled easily...no thanks

Why does he have an ego? Because he didn’t want to stay trapped in an organization where he’d never get to play full time in the next decade barring injury? It’s not like he pulled an Adam Fox and demanded to go to only one other team.

 

[Bleedred]

I understand where you're coming from but you gotta think that we can't have too many fans thinking like you in terms of what is a shitbag goalie or it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy with goalies shitting the bed here because of the mental side. Same thing as players that do fine in Oakland or Tampa but can't cut it for the Yankees.

Funny enough, Blackwood apparently was pretty good for SJ last year while Kahkonen was trash (according to their fans) and then KK comes here and plays better than Allen did (in less starts).

Blackwood was overrated because most San Jose fans and even fans of other teams think that for a goalie to play like Blackwood did last year behind that team, they'd have to be in god mode.

And I don't think that's true. Blackwood was dead average at the absolute best. He was an improvement over his last 3 years in New Jersey, but he was nowhere near his first two years here. And as I continued to point out, his AHL career was not very good, which makes me believe that Blackwood's two good years in New Jersey were super rando.

For much of last year Kahkonen was the better goalie there. I think in most metrics Kahkonen was superior.

Kahkonen was horrible the year before that, when Blackwood wasn't on the team.

 

[NjDevsRR]

A goalie with an ego is not a bad thing. You want a goalie who thinks he walks on water. Better that the weak mentality we saw from Vitek

 

[MadDevil]

People who don't like Askarov don't like fun...



Although he needs to work on his fighting...

 

[AfroThunder396]

Blackwood was overrated because most San Jose fans and even fans of other teams think that for a goalie to play like Blackwood did last year behind that team, they'd have to be in god mode.

And I don't think that's true. Blackwood was dead average at the absolute best. He was an improvement over his last 3 years in New Jersey, but he was nowhere near his first two years here. And as I continued to point out, his AHL career was not very good, which makes me believe that Blackwood's two good years in New Jersey were super rando.

For much of last year Kahkonen was the better goalie there. I think in most metrics Kahkonen was superior.

Kahkonen was horrible the year before that, when Blackwood wasn't on the team.

There's a lot of inertia that comes with player reputation. Blackwood came into the league and had a strong run early, so that's the mental landmark people go to. Neverminded the fact that he's been terrible for YEARS, people will always default to their priors and look for excuses.

With Blackwood, "oh it's not his fault, New Jersey is bad defensively!" and then "oh it's not his fault, San Jose is bad defensively!" and "well, everyone else on the team has worse stats!"

 

[MadDevil]

A goalie with an ego is not a bad thing. You want a goalie who thinks he walks on water. Better that the weak mentality we saw from Vitek

Marty's ego could have blotted out the sun. And was still probably a blip compared to Roy's.

 

[JrFischer54]

I believe he will save his job.



He acquired Mukhamadullin, Musty, Celebrini, Smith, Dickinson, Askarov, Chernyshov, (and Bystedt, Lund, Havelid, Haltunen are promising on different levels) in a short term. I believe owners have patience and I believe a lot of coaches will want to work with Celebrini and Co.
Everything he needs is continue to find more defensive pieces. He needs one-two more pieces and its not like their rebuild is done - they have draft or two for high picks. Devils had best season year ago and still drafted Silayev this year.

It’s nice when you start a rebuild and actually have pieces to sell for actual value.

 

[JrFischer54]

I mean, this also ignores the fact their next contracts will be bloated and you're probably paying Draisailt for his past performances than what you get in the future. McDavid will be McDavid. They're going to end up like the Penguins have with Sid/Malkin/Letang with their core being older and not being able to handle the youth of the league coming through. (Applies to prior post of McDavid/Drai staying with EDM).

And yeah I get that, but I'm saying we don't know anything about athletes anymore. Those 2 guys can wake up one day and say f*** Edmonton and proceed to walk back to back years. Look what happened to Calgary, Edmonton is going to trade these guys before it even gets to Calgary level but I'd lean them leaving more than them staying.



If your goal is to be a 95 point team the past 3 years, then sure. My goal is to win a cup, elite prospects + drafting > being a mediocre team from top to bottom. I can't believe a Devils fan, of all NHL fandoms, is arguing this. Nashville hasn't even won a round the past 6 years, what are we doing here? Not to mention, they literally missed the playoffs the year they had 92 points.

Yes the goal is to be a 95pt team and then to take the next step. I’ll be jumping for joy if this team hits 95pts that’s not a mediocre season as you claim it to be. Again half the playoff teams get knocked out in the first round. Not everyone is winning a cup

 

[JrFischer54]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1827090718986326439

No idea why tortz would admit that

Also read he turned down a way better package from the blackhawks. Double woof

 

[CalamityX23]

If we didn't give up our '25 1st in trade for Markstrom, we haz chance????? For Askarov?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

If we didn't give up our '25 1st in trade for Markstrom, we haz chance????? For Askarov?

you can't go into late August without a starting goalie

 

[Xirik]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1827090718986326439

No idea why tortz would admit that

Also read he turned down a way better package from the blackhawks. Double woof

if there were ever two homies that kissed each other good night that were part of the same organization it would be Lou and Trotz. They are made for each other.

 

[MadDevil]

If we didn't give up our '25 1st in trade for Markstrom, we haz chance????? For Askarov?

I don't think Fitz was going to gamble on a guy who has 2 career NHL starts being "the" goalie move this summer. I like Askarov a lot, but NHL GMs are almost always going to prefer experience or a proven track record.

I do think he would have been fun on this team with some of the other goofballs we have, and if he hits his potential we could have had our starter for the next decade, but "ifs" and "potential" in a position that is itself more volatile is a pretty big gamble for a team that's trying to win. It makes a ton of sense for a team like San Jose because the stakes aren't as high for them right now.

 

[Guadana]

It’s nice when you start a rebuild and actually have pieces to sell for actual value.

Too bad Shero decided to retool in his first and second summer when he had assets to trade and his assets looked even better for a trade in the second summer. Too great he was so bad manager to make so many managing mistakes so some part of his scouting stuff had enough time to draft a couple of good players and we were so bad and luck to win a couple of lotteries and draft Jack and Nico.

 

[Triumph]

Too bad Shero decided to retool in his first and second summer when he had assets to trade and his assets looked even better for a trade in the second summer. Too great he was so bad manager to make so many managing mistakes so some part of his scouting stuff had enough time to draft a couple of good players and we were so bad and luck to win a couple of lotteries and draft Jack and Nico.

Shero asked all of his players with no-trade clauses if they wanted to stay in the summer of 2017. Cammalleri was the only player who wanted out.

 

[tailfins]

It’s nice when you start a rebuild and actually have pieces to sell for actual value.

That's nuts. They had one asset: Meier.

Hertl is 30 and is signed for 6 more years. He's never been a point per game player, and just had a procedure on his knee. Most people thought he was basically untradeable after signing he signed his extension.

Karlsson had four years left on an insane contract, and was 33 when he was traded. Again, this was a contract that most people thought couldn't be moved.

Burns was 37 and signed for 3 more years when he was traded.

If you think those are valuable pieces, then the 2016 Devils seem like they're rolling in assets.

 

[tailfins]

Shero asked all of his players with no-trade clauses if they wanted to stay in the summer of 2017. Cammalleri was the only player who wanted out.

That's not how things work and you know it.

No trade clauses help players manage where they are going. Not if. We saw it with the Lightning - they forced Dan Boyle to accept a trade vs being waived.

Shero made a decision to retool and not to sell.

 

[Triumph]

That's not how things work and you know it.

No trade clauses help players manage where they are going. Not if. We saw it with the Lightning - they forced Dan Boyle to accept a trade vs being waived.

.Shero made a decision to retool and not to sell.

Threatening waivers only makes sense as a scorched earth policy - it is the last resort. The Lightning did it when they were in the throes of the disastrous Koules/Barrie ownership. The idea of waiving Andy Greene or Cory Schneider in 2017 is asinine.

Try reading up on the Muskoka Five sometime.

That said, obviously Shero made that decision and may well have made that decision anyway, but the players also made that decision for him. If they wanted out, he would've shipped them out.

 

[Guadana]

Shero asked all of his players with no-trade clauses if they wanted to stay in the summer of 2017. Cammalleri was the only player who wanted out.

Shero should asked them not to stay but to go away. And it would be better if he asked this in his first or better in the second summer.

Cycles of off-season.

 

[NJDevs26]

They really didn’t have a lot of tradeable assets besides Cory that they sat on and people would have eviscerated them for trading a goalie who was at his peak with several years of control - look at how much trouble we’ve had at filling the spot since Cory blew up. I doubt Greene and Zajac would have even brought back much more at the time than they did as deadline rental deals years later.