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Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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Regarding Monty, I surely would take him back but I wonder if he's been overhyped by an outlier Bruins season where they could do no wrong. From what I've heard he's a pretty easy-going coach who is more buddy buddy with players than most. I wonder if that's the type of guy we need right now or not.
I do not wonder this, because it isn't just one outlier season. He has had two great seasons in Boston and a very strong resume beyond that.

The 135 point season was remarkable. I don't care how talented your team is. 135 points is outperforming your roster, full stop. 65-12-3 is a ludicrous record in a hard cap league. It's a great record even if you can assemble a full blown all star team with no cap restrictions. Their 54 regulation wins is 6th all time and the most since Detroit won 59 of them in 1995/96.The dynasty Oilers best year was 53 regulation wins in 80 games. The dynasty Isles best year was 54 wins in 80 games. Getting 135 points out of any roster in the cap era is absolutely remarkable and I certainly don't look at that roster and think that it is clearly the best cap roster ever assembled.

But it wasn't just that season. They drastically outperformed their roster this year too. Pasta is amazing. Marchand is still very good, but he's not the player he was a few years ago when he was a genuine offensive stud. After that the forward group is extremely thin. Their 1-2 center punch is Pavel Zacha and Charlie Coyle. Both were just over 18 minutes a night this year (career highs) and they had 59 and 60 points (career highs). Their next best forward is Jake Debrusk and then the rest of the top 9 is rounded out with Morgan Geekie, Trent Frederic, Danton Heinen and a 34 your old JVR.

I get that Pasta was incredible and dragged that offense at times, but finishing the year 12th in goals scored with that group is remarkable.

The D group is very good, but Lindholm has had indisputably the best 2 seasons of his career under Montgomery. The goalies have been incredibly good as well. Boston banked a ton of points on the backs of personnel that makes them very hard to score against, but I don't think these players are good enough that 109 points is the expected result. This is a roster that should have been much closer to the playoff bubble than the President's trophy. Yet they were just 5 points back of the Rangers, 1 point back of the Panthers for the division and made the playoffs with an 18 point cushion. With a top 6 center group of Pavel Zacha and Charlie Coyle.

I think this season very much is a big point in his reputational favor and the rest of his resume is positive as well.

He got Dallas to the playoffs (and took or Cup team to a game 7) in his first year as their head coach. They had missed the playoffs the previous 2 seasons. The next season, Dallas was .610 when he left the team and they finished the year .594 (before going to the Final in the bubble). They missed the playoffs the following season.

He joined us as an assistant for 2020/21. I don't think anyone knows how much credit/blame he deserves for the way 2020/21 and 2021/22 went, but the team had a great year in 2021/22 followed by a pretty bad year after he left to go coach Boston.

Pre-NHL, his teams did a lot of winning. He took DU to the Frozen 4 twice and won a National Championship. He won two USHL championships in his three year stint in that league. Since he became a head coach in the USHL in 2010, his team has never missed the postseason. That's 3 years in the USHL, 5 years in the NCAA, and now 6 years in the NHL (or 4 if you exclude his time as an assistant here).

He has a hell of a resume beyond Boston's incredible 2022/23 season.

You can argue that his system relies on being able to run out a strong goalie tandem (Bishop/Khudobin, Binner/Husso, and Ullmark/Swayman). I think you can equally argue that his system is favorable to goaltenders, but for the sake of this post I'll concede that he needs a strong goalie tandem to have success. I'm extremely comfortable with our goalie tandem for the short and medium term.

I think the hype is justified and if Boston fires him he is by far my favorite candidate. I think it would be a big mistake for Boston to fire him and I think they will miss the playoffs next yeaar if they do. They might miss the playoffs next year anyway, but I think firing Monty would greatly increase those chances.

I know that blowing a 3-1 lead 2 years in a row would be unprecedented and I'm not wild about the way he's managed the goalies in either of the last 2 playoffs. But at the end of the day they'd have beaten the Panthers in 5 if Marchand buries an end of regulation breakaway last year and that Panthers team then went on a run to the Cup Final. That was a very good team once Bob entered the series and brought his A game. I think that they were fortunate to be up 3-1 on the Leafs this year and have a clearly worse roster than the Leafs. I'd have picked the Leafs in 5 if you could guarantee competency in net, so them clawing back into the series after Woll took over isn't a huge indictment about Boston IMO.

It would be a red flag, but not something that would remotely outweigh his overall resume for me.
 
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oPlaiD

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Dec 3, 2007
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Given some of the recent discussion here, thought it'd be fun to look at this reddit thread which highlights the dichotomy between conflicting and contradictory aspects of the same competitive persona:
 

Stupendous Yappi

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Given some of the recent discussion here, thought it'd be fun to look at this reddit thread which highlights the dichotomy between conflicting and contradictory aspects of the same competitive persona:

Woll is giving up too many rebounds to take them very far, but he’s making the first save at a time when that team is mentally thirsty for something positive to latch onto. If had to bet, I’d choose Toronto in Game 7, but it’s not overwhelming.

I’m glad there have been at least a couple series that looked competitive this round.
 

Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
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I do not wonder this, because it isn't just one outlier season. He has had two great seasons in Boston and a very strong resume beyond that.

The 135 point season was remarkable. I don't care how talented your team is. 135 points is outperforming your roster, full stop. 65-12-3 is a ludicrous record in a hard cap league. It's a great record even if you can assemble a full blown all star team with no cap restrictions. Their 54 regulation wins is 6th all time and the most since Detroit won 59 of them in 1995/96.The dynasty Oilers best year was 53 regulation wins in 80 games. The dynasty Isles best year was 54 wins in 80 games. Getting 135 points out of any roster in the cap era is absolutely remarkable and I certainly don't look at that roster and think that it is clearly the best cap roster ever assembled.

But it wasn't just that season. They drastically outperformed their roster this year too. Pasta is amazing. Marchand is still very good, but he's not the player he was a few years ago when he was a genuine offensive stud. After that the forward group is extremely thin. Their 1-2 center punch is Pavel Zacha and Charlie Coyle. Both were just over 18 minutes a night this year (career highs) and they had 59 and 60 points (career highs). Their next best forward is Jake Debrusk and then the rest of the top 9 is rounded out with Morgan Geekie, Trent Frederic, Danton Heinen and a 34 your old JVR.

I get that Pasta was incredible and dragged that offense at times, but finishing the year 12th in goals scored with that group is remarkable.

The D group is very good, but Lindholm has had indisputably the best 2 seasons of his career under Montgomery. The goalies have been incredibly good as well. Boston banked a ton of points on the backs of personnel that makes them very hard to score against, but I don't think these players are good enough that 109 points is the expected result. This is a roster that should have been much closer to the playoff bubble than the President's trophy. Yet they were just 5 points back of the Rangers, 1 point back of the Panthers for the division and made the playoffs with an 18 point cushion. With a top 6 center group of Pavel Zacha and Charlie Coyle.

I think this season very much is a big point in his reputational favor and the rest of his resume is positive as well.

He got Dallas to the playoffs (and took or Cup team to a game 7) in his first year as their head coach. They had missed the playoffs the previous 2 seasons. The next season, Dallas was .610 when he left the team and they finished the year .594 (before going to the Final in the bubble). They missed the playoffs the following season.

He joined us as an assistant for 2020/21. I don't think anyone knows how much credit/blame he deserves for the way 2020/21 and 2021/22 went, but the team had a great year in 2021/22 followed by a pretty bad year after he left to go coach Boston.

Pre-NHL, his teams did a lot of winning. He took DU to the Frozen 4 twice and won a National Championship. He won two USHL championships in his three year stint in that league. Since he became a head coach in the USHL in 2010, his team has never missed the postseason. That's 3 years in the USHL, 5 years in the NCAA, and now 6 years in the NHL (or 4 if you exclude his time as an assistant here).

He has a hell of a resume beyond Boston's incredible 2022/23 season.

You can argue that his system relies on being able to run out a strong goalie tandem (Bishop/Khudobin, Binner/Husso, and Ullmark/Swayman). I think you can equally argue that his system is favorable to goaltenders, but for the sake of this post I'll concede that he needs a strong goalie tandem to have success. I'm extremely comfortable with our goalie tandem for the short and medium term.

I think the hype is justified and if Boston fires him he is by far my favorite candidate. I think it would be a big mistake for Boston to fire him and I think they will miss the playoffs next yeaar if they do. They might miss the playoffs next year anyway, but I think firing Monty would greatly increase those chances.

I know that blowing a 3-1 lead 2 years in a row would be unprecedented and I'm not wild about the way he's managed the goalies in either of the last 2 playoffs. But at the end of the day they'd have beaten the Panthers in 5 if Marchand buries an end of regulation breakaway last year and that Panthers team then went on a run to the Cup Final. That was a very good team once Bob entered the series and brought his A game. I think that they were fortunate to be up 3-1 on the Leafs this year and have a clearly worse roster than the Leafs. I'd have picked the Leafs in 5 if you could guarantee competency in net, so them clawing back into the series after Woll took over isn't a huge indictment about Boston IMO.

It would be a red flag, but not something that would remotely outweigh his overall resume for me.
I was going to write about the overachieving roster, but I think you covered.

When I look at that Boston roster the last two years, personally I didn’t see it as a contender. There are just too many holes. It’s akin to the Backes Blues. Our coaching made the team look better in the regular season than it was, but when the playoffs rolled around, we were already running in top gear. There wasn’t more to give. I see Boston as being similar.

Overachieving is the sign of a good coach. I think Monty is just that.
 

SirPaste

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They lost in the 2nd round last season to the Panthers and it was equally enjoyable. Go Leafs.
It was the first round last year against the Panthers, Bruins won the Presidents trophy and the Panthers barely squeaked in on the last day with the 2nd WC spot. Panthers also came back from being down 3-1 like the Leafs could also pull off on Saturday
 

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
7,187
13,200
I was going to write about the overachieving roster, but I think you covered.

When I look at that Boston roster the last two years, personally I didn’t see it as a contender. There are just too many holes. It’s akin to the Backes Blues. Our coaching made the team look better in the regular season than it was, but when the playoffs rolled around, we were already running in top gear. There wasn’t more to give. I see Boston as being similar.

Overachieving is the sign of a good coach. I think Monty is just that.
Agree for this year, but I saw a contender last year and that Florida series didn't change my mind.

I very much think that roster was good enough to win the Cup with Bergeron, Krecji, and Coyle down the middle. Not in the runaway fashion in which they won in the regular season, but I think they were a legit contender.

That center group might not be better than the best we had in the Backes era. I'd argue that it is, but even if it isn't better, it isn't worse. Pasta had 61 goals and was 2nd in Hart voting last year. Tarasenko was great for us, but never that great. Marchand is a hell of a #2 winger as good or better than any #2 winger we had in the Backes era. Their goalie tandem was better than any we ran out in that era. Bertuzzi, Zacha, Hall, and Debrusk was a better middle 6 wing group than any we had in that era. McAvoy, Lindholm, Carlo, and Orlov was as good as any top 4 we ran out in that era. I don't see the holes last year and I think they were every bit a contender.

They win in 5 if Marchand buries a breakaway in the dying seconds and they outshot Florida 47-25 that night. But they lose in OT. They lost a wild game 6 where shots were pretty even and Ullmark struggled. Then they lose game 7 in OT despite outshooting the Panthers 36-31. Full credit to the Panthers, but it isn't like Boston didn't have the horses to win that series. Nothing about that series loss suggested a roster construction issue to me and since then Florida has made it pretty clear that they are a damn good team.

That team was loaded, but then they lost half of their forward group (Bergeron, Krecji, Bertuzzi, Hall, Foligno, and Nosek) and a couple reliable D (Orlov and Cliffton).

Monty had a hell of a group in 2022/23 that I believe absolutely could have won a Cup. I agree that they didn't have another gear in the playoffs beyond the 135 point regular season, but that is just because I don't believe that any team has ever had another gear beyond a season like that.
 

Snubbed4Vezina

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Jul 9, 2022
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It was the first round last year against the Panthers, Bruins won the Presidents trophy and the Panthers barely squeaked in on the last day with the 2nd WC spot. Panthers also came back from being down 3-1 like the Leafs could also pull off on Saturday
I was responding to a poster that was talking about the Leafs losing in the first round every year. The Leafs lost in the 2nd round to the Panthers last postseason.

"We want Florida!"
 

Reality Czech

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
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True, but there's still their losing streak to Boston in the playoffs, which ironically has a couple game 7 losses in it.

I saw somewhere online that two of the last three times the Leafs and Bruins played in the playoffs, the Leafs won games 5 and 6 to force a game 7, which they lost. Will history repeat itself? Toronto seems to have all the mojo right now, so I'm not so sure. We know Boston is also capable of losing game 7s at home.
 
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TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
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Crazy that only last year Vegas won with like 5th string goalie and now Vancouver has 3rd leading them. Goalie depth can make or break you.
True. Blues would have won in 2022 if Chief had the guts to play Chuckie over Husso who was terrible outside of G1 @ Minny.

I saw somewhere online that the last two times the Leafs and Bruins played in the playoffs, the Leafs won games 5 and 6 to force a game 7, which they lost. Will history repeat itself? Toronto seems to have all the mojo right now, so I'm not so sure. We know Boston is also capable of losing game 7s at home.
The Leafs will lose, this was how it was going to be all along. These series ALWAYS go 7 with the Leafs losing in a hilarious manner. They are the Bruins bitch just like how the Blues were the Redwings bitch in the 90s. Important to get the first goal tonight and start the "here we go again" tapes for the Maple Chokes.

Even if they win, lol congrats you get a rested Florida team that is playing great again!
 
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stl76

No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
Jul 2, 2015
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:sarcasm:Nashville shut out of the playoffs by a third stringer. Ya hate to see it.

200w.gif
 

Xerloris

reckless optimism
Jun 9, 2015
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I saw somewhere online that two of the last three times the Leafs and Bruins played in the playoffs, the Leafs won games 5 and 6 to force a game 7, which they lost. Will history repeat itself? Toronto seems to have all the mojo right now, so I'm not so sure. We know Boston is also capable of losing game 7s at home.

As the prophecies foretold.
True. Blues would have won in 2022 if Chief had the guts to play Chuckie over Husso who was terrible outside of G1 @ Minny.

I hate that I actually agree with you on something relating to Lindgren.
 

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