Around the NHL: 2018-19, Part 4

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[1972]

Mitch Marner is better then Auston Matthews.

 

[Gabrielor]

Let's go Blackhawks. Gotta stop this Islander train.

 

[SabresFan26]

Mitch Marner is better then Auston Matthews.

So you'd take Marner over Eichel?

 

[1972]

So you'd take Marner over Eichel?

It’s close, but I also think Eichel is much more of a driver then Matthews. If Matthews isn’t scoring he’s not really creating.

 

[toomuchsauce]

Has anyone ever explained why/how Barzal fell to 16th in the 2015 draft? And don't say "teh Bruins lol." I mean, how did he end out outside of the top 5, top 10? 2015 wasn't the dark ages - small, skilled, skating players had already emerged, as early mammals after the dinosaurs. Marner went 4th. How did everyone in NHL scouting f*** up this badly?

edit: scouting and/or management

 

[SabresFan26]

It’s close, but I also think Eichel is much more of a driver then Matthews. If Matthews isn’t scoring he’s not really creating.

I agree. I think Eichel and Mather are more comparable in style then Matthews. It’s like an apple to oranges debate in my opinion.

 

[GellMann]

The league is honestly pissing me off right now. NYI are pacing for 101 points and aren't in a playoff spot - we could finish with 100 and miss at this rate that's held up for half a season now. Meanwhile a team pacing for 90 in the west sits incredibly comfortably. So irritating.

 

[ZZamboni]

The league is honestly pissing me off right now. NYI are pacing for 101 points and aren't in a playoff spot - we could finish with 100 and miss at this rate that's held up for half a season now. Meanwhile a team pacing for 90 in the west sits incredibly comfortably. So irritating.

The “on pace” for argument is weak.

Anyone who has watched hockey for more than 10 games knows that “on pace” almost never pans out to be accurate come April. Too many variables.

Hell, I was on pace to spend $8,500 for all gifts for calendar year 2018. If you only looked at my December spending.

 

[enthusiast]

When you have half the season put away, there's a rough idea of who's going to place where. Of course there's variance, but there's predictive value

 

[Rowley Birkin]

The “on pace” for argument is weak.

Anyone who has watched hockey for more than 10 games knows that “on pace” almost never pans out to be accurate come April. Too many variables.

Hell, I was on pace to spend $8,500 for all gifts for calendar year 2018. If you only looked at my December spending.

The conf/divisional/playoff structure has been a joke since Thrashers moved to Winnipeg IMO.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

The “on pace” for argument is weak.

Anyone who has watched hockey for more than 10 games knows that “on pace” almost never pans out to be accurate come April. Too many variables.

Hell, I was on pace to spend $8,500 for all gifts for calendar year 2018. If you only looked at my December spending.

The conf/divisional/playoff structure has been a joke since Thrashers moved to Winnipeg IMO.

 

[joshjull]

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jim Bob]

The conf/divisional/playoff structure has been a joke since Thrashers moved to Winnipeg IMO.

The geography of North America doesn't allow for a single table format that makes sense.

To make things truly fair, you would need to have a single table with a 62 game schedule where you play every team in the league home and away.

That won't work for a variety of reasons.

Personally, I would like to see things go old school once Seattle joins the league.

Go back to the 4 divisions where the first two rounds of the playoffs are for the division title. Then the division champs face off in the conference championship series and the two conference champs playing in the Stanley Cup finals.

 

[7even]

Has anyone ever explained why/how Barzal fell to 16th in the 2015 draft? And don't say "teh Bruins lol." I mean, how did he end out outside of the top 5, top 10? 2015 wasn't the dark ages - small, skilled, skating players had already emerged, as early mammals after the dinosaurs. Marner went 4th. How did everyone in NHL scouting **** up this badly?

edit: scouting and/or management

My 2¢, sometimes guys just get "overscouted." I think Barzal was one of those guys. Many people may not remember but D-3 Barzal was talked about as potentially rivaling McDavid for #1 in 2015. His numbers coming into the WHL were gaudy. His rookie WHL year was great. At the beginning of his draft year I believe he was rated top 5. His draft year was still good but I think scouts expected him to take more of a jump and he just kind of stagnated, which makes it easier to focus on your flaws. Going into draft weekend I remember him still being rated at the lower end of the top 10 with some chatter about him going as high as 4 to Toronto. 10-13 would've been a reasonable slip but then you had Boston who I guess just really didn't like him and exaggerated the fall.

 

[TehDoak]

I hope Buffalo sneaks in offers a 3 year, 12M OS to Kapanen. Just to f*** up their cap a liiiiittle bit more.

 

[joshjull]

 

[Jim Bob]

My 2¢, sometimes guys just get "overscouted." I think Barzal was one of those guys. Many people may not remember but D-3 Barzal was talked about as potentially rivaling McDavid for #1 in 2015. His numbers coming into the WHL were gaudy. His rookie WHL year was great. At the beginning of his draft year I believe he was rated top 5. His draft year was still good but I think scouts expected him to take more of a jump and he just kind of stagnated, which makes it easier to focus on your flaws. Going into draft weekend I remember him still being rated at the lower end of the top 10 with some chatter about him going as high as 4 to Toronto. 10-13 would've been a reasonable slip but then you had Boston who I guess just really didn't like him and exaggerated the fall.

Mathew Barzal's former junior GM knew the Isles drafted a gem

But even Farwell was surprised to see the uniquely gifted Mathew Barzal, one of the best players in Seattle history, go unselected for 15 picks - including selections 13, 14 and 15 by the Boston Bruins - before Garth Snow and the Islanders snapped him up in the 2015 NHL Draft.

"We were aware of teams across the NHL that had Mathew as high as fourth or fifth overall in their rankings," Farwell said in a phone conversation from Seattle. "I know Carolina liked him a lot, but decided to go with a good defenseman [Noah Hanfin, fifth overall]. And sure, I was bit surprised he went by those picks Boston had."

So what do you think happened, Russ?

"I'm not sure," said Farwell. "Maybe some teams saw Mat as a star in junior and a potential one in the NHL, but questioned whether he could adjust his style for the pros."

Drafted by Islanders, Mathew Barzal slips into ideal situation

Konowalchuk was in attendance Friday night and also expressed that he was a bit surprised by Barzal slipping to where he did.

“I believe he’s a top player that could have gone higher,” he says. “I know there were teams that were debating him close to the top 5. But it’s funny, one guy gets taken out of order and everything shifts. I think he’s a good player and he could have been up in that area but I also understand that drafts never go according (to plan). Where he’s picked is a very big honor. Not too many players get that honor so he should be very proud of himself.”

The most obvious reason for Barzal getting taken where he did was the knee injury that forced him to miss a couple of months during the WHL regular season. While it wasn’t a hockey-related injury as it occurred in the locker room during a road trip, it could have caused some teams to shy away from spending a valuable first-round selection on him.

I believe that Barzal's size combined with the knee injury was the #1 reason for his falling to 16 on draft day.

Too many scouts believe that smaller players are less durable. Add in a draft year injury and that feeds that thought process.

 

[7even]

Mathew Barzal's former junior GM knew the Isles drafted a gem



Drafted by Islanders, Mathew Barzal slips into ideal situation



I believe that Barzal's size combined with the knee injury was the #1 reason for his falling to 16 on draft day.

Too many scouts believe that smaller players are less durable. Add in a draft year injury and that feeds that thought process.

Good call, forgot about the injury. Still though, guys have missed the majority of seasons and still gone top 5 -- 2012 comes to mind. And like, Barzal isn't big but he was never really slight either, unlike say Conor Garland, who posted 130pts and went in the 5th round that year. I just can't see it being predominantly a size bias when Marner went 4th. Probably contributed but I think they just flat out read him wrong.

 

[sufferer]

I remember reading Barzal didn't interview well as in his confidence wasn't taken the right way. He also fell because Boston decided to boof three straight picks

 

[Jim Bob]

I remember reading Barzal didn't interview well as in his confidence wasn't taken the right way. He also fell because Boston decided to boof three straight picks

He shouldn't have lasted to the Boston picks (13-15).

The real irony is how good picks 16-18 were (Barzal, Connor, & Chabot) right after those three straight Bruins picks.

Thank goodness the Bs didn't take that trio!

 

[Member 308457]

Here's a minor observation. This season, I've noticed Mittlestadt and Pilut getting pushed around well after they had scored. There might be more players I have missed but it keeps happening. For one, I saw the 18 y.o. Mtl. player Kotkaniemi pushing Mittlestadt around after Casey had scored. Casey did not stand up for himself.. Then there was Pilut getting pushed around by Yandle last night. These are smaller/younger players who probably won't fight back. I think it's an intimidation tactic.

The Sabres don't have too many fighters on the team to stick up for these smaller/younger players. The forwards especially are pacifists. Several of the forwards have had multiple concussions. They certainly will avoid scrums and avoid sticking up for a teammate. They are afraid of more concussions, which could be devastating to a player.

Take a look at the Brad May-Rob Ray-Barnaby highlights for a good contrast. The were not afraid. I don't think they would have let a Yandle get away with pushing a smaller player after they had scored. I wonder if pushing after a goal is a league-wide trend. The fact that it's uncontested and the Sabres don't fight back is disturbing and brings back bad memories of Lucic-Miller.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

The geography of North America doesn't allow for a single table format that makes sense.

To make things truly fair, you would need to have a single table with a 62 game schedule where you play every team in the league home and away.

That won't work for a variety of reasons.

Personally, I would like to see things go old school once Seattle joins the league.

Go back to the 4 divisions where the first two rounds of the playoffs are for the division title. Then the division champs face off in the conference championship series and the two conference champs playing in the Stanley Cup finals.

Lopsided divisions & the BS divisional playoff matches are a joke.

Honestly there was nothing wrong with the setup before - 6z5 team divisions & 1-8seeds in the playoffs with only divisional winners guaranteed to make it with a free for all after that.

Of course it has to change with the eventual expansion to LV/seattle but that has come way after.

I've had some thoughts about how I'd like to have the structure of the league with Seattle - I'll post later as at work but it's essentially not dissimilar from the NFL in the sense it's 8z4 team divisions - but with 1-8 seeds in playoffs.

 

[GellMann]

The “on pace” for argument is weak.

Anyone who has watched hockey for more than 10 games knows that “on pace” almost never pans out to be accurate come April. Too many variables.

Hell, I was on pace to spend $8,500 for all gifts for calendar year 2018. If you only looked at my December spending.

It's not an argument, it's an observation based on half of a season. The sample size is large enough to note that our conference is stronger at the top than the west, and that there's a decent chance that an East team misses the playoffs with a record that could have had them comfortably in in the west, which happens on occasion. If I had said that we're doomed and will miss with 100 points, well, that'd be foolish, but I just made the observation that it's annoying to not have any breathing room right now as a fan watching the standings, when we'd be sleeping soundly if we were a western conference team.

People were standings-watching here and hooraying a playoff position before October was even over