Around the NHL 11 - 2023/24

[surixon]

Iafallo is an undrafred grinder. Nice bullshit comparison. I could just as well compare him to Mcdavid with your shit logic

Perfetti underacheived for a stretch

Or do you think that those 23 games were an accurate representation of what he's capable of?


Yeah, both him and Ehlers have largely been diefied by some people on here to a point where you can't even point out valid criticisms

Sure he had a rough patch, just like most every young player has, as @NA Hockey pointed out. No one is arguing he didn't have a rough stretch. Many are arguing that Bones handled it differently then a good many of his peers have with similar young players. Most elected to use the carrot, bones elected to use the stick to motivate.

Also that 23 games needs context. He had a rough 11 game stretch in the top 6 where he went pointless. He put up what 3 points in his next 12 games on the fourth line by that math. That is pacing around 20 points over a full year. That is right in line with what you'd expect production wise for that role and ice time. Usage plays a role in results, a player playing fourth line minutes will likely produce fourth line results which is what Cole did in that role, but he doesn't play the style of game Bones wanted for that role.

We are talking a lot about what is "earned" here. At the time of his demotion he was third in goals on the team and 5th in points (4th among forwards). Can you name many coaches that demote a player who has those results on the year as a whole over a small cold stretch? It's not like he was a liability, having one of the best goal differentials on the team. Many of Perfetti's fans on here believe he had earned a longer leash then he got. Or If the coach wanted a reset for him then he should have sat him a few games to clear his head and then put him right back into the top 6 to see if the reset worked.

 

[Buffdog]

Sure he had a rough patch, just like most every young player has, as @NA Hockey pointed out. No one is arguing he didn't have a rough stretch. Many are arguing that Bones handled it differently then a good many of his peers have with similar young players. Most elected to use the carrot, bones elected to use the stick to motivate.

Also that 23 games needs context. He had a rough 11 game stretch in the top 6 where he went pointless. He put up what 3 points in his next 12 games on the fourth line by that math. That is pacing around 20 points over a full year. That is right in line with what you'd expect production wise for that role and ice time. Usage plays a role in results, a player playing fourth line minutes will likely produce fourth line results which is what Cole did in that role, but he doesn't play the style of game Bones wanted for that role.

We are talking a lot about what is "earned" here. At the time of his demotion he was third in goals on the team and 5th in points (4th among forwards). Can you name many coaches that demote a player who has those results on the year as a whole over a small cold stretch? It's not like he was a liability, having one of the best goal differentials on the team. Many of Perfetti's fans on here believe he had earned a longer leash then he got. Or If the coach wanted a reset for him then he should have sat him a few games to clear his head and then put him right back into the top 6 to see if the reset worked.

I don't think Bones used the carrot or the stick with Cole. As I said in my original post on the topic that sort of set this off is that Bones' job isn't to "get players going"... it's to win

I also mentionned Shane Wright as an example of a young player that wasn't handled with kid gloves. I'm too lazy to go searching for more examples but I'm sure there are at least a few

I think Cole has a bright future as a perennial 70 point player but that doesn't negate the fact that his game fell off at some point last year, on a team that was pushing to be a top 5 team in the league for much of it. Teams trying to win a cup have their young players on shorter leashes

I'll also point out that he ended up with an overall average higher TOI than Stankoven and a few others. Not to mention the fact that he did have 6 points in his last 5 games, which one could argue (poorly) shows that Bones' approach actually worked lol

 

[raideralex99]

Sure he had a rough patch, just like most every young player has, as @NA Hockey pointed out. No one is arguing he didn't have a rough stretch. Many are arguing that Bones handled it differently then a good many of his peers have with similar young players. Most elected to use the carrot, bones elected to use the stick to motivate.

Also that 23 games needs context. He had a rough 11 game stretch in the top 6 where he went pointless. He put up what 3 points in his next 12 games on the fourth line by that math. That is pacing around 20 points over a full year. That is right in line with what you'd expect production wise for that role and ice time. Usage plays a role in results, a player playing fourth line minutes will likely produce fourth line results which is what Cole did in that role, but he doesn't play the style of game Bones wanted for that role.

We are talking a lot about what is "earned" here. At the time of his demotion he was third in goals on the team and 5th in points (4th among forwards). Can you name many coaches that demote a player who has those results on the year as a whole over a small cold stretch? It's not like he was a liability, having one of the best goal differentials on the team. Many of Perfetti's fans on here believe he had earned a longer leash then he got. Or If the coach wanted a reset for him then he should have sat him a few games to clear his head and then put him right back into the top 6 to see if the reset worked.

I was at the game in February Jets at Canucks ... while many think Bones held Cole back the reality is Bones IMO was protecting Perfetti. Canucks were playing playoff hockey hitting and finishing their checks. Cole took a beating and on one play he looked like he was hurt after getting checked hard into the boards. He ended up only playing 12 shifts and 10 mins in that game. When a team finds out your weakness they attack it ... you want to know why Jets can't win in the playoffs ... toughness.

 

[surixon]

I was at the game in February Jets at Canucks ... while many think Bones held Cole back the reality is Bones IMO was protecting Perfetti. Canucks were playing playoff hockey hitting and finishing their checks. Cole took a beating and on one play he looked like he was hurt after getting checked hard into the boards. He ended up only playing 12 shifts and 10 mins in that game. When a team finds out your weakness they attack it ... you want to know why Jets can't win in the playoffs ... toughness.

I found Perfetti handled the physical play much better last year. He needed reps and time adapt.

The same is true for your example. How is one ever supposed to learn to play in a physical playoff environment if the coach holds you out and prevents you from learning. When he got into his one playoff game, he was perfectly capable of playing in that physicality.

Really it was the grizzled playoff vets brought in and Fly who let us down.

 

[KingBogo]

Speaking of Jarvis, he is an unsigned RFA.

Would love to somehow bring the Winnipegger home.

Does he want to come home? My guess most of the local kids prefer the cities they are in over playing and living in Winnipeg. I sure in the hell would. Not many want to be in a gossipy fishbowl where half the people you know want a free ticket to the next game.

 

[DRW204]

He was a non factor in the PO game. Actually worst Jet Fwd by the post game analytics that gets shared and commented often around here

If you want to be objective today, both the high priced TDL acquisitions can be sourced at Perfetti's underperformance and failure to play up to expectations.

Couldn't be a viable top 6C, eventually in comes Monahan. Can't produce at top6 wing months leading upto TDL, in comes Toffoli. Hopefully better play next year.

I found Perfetti handled the physical play much better last year. He needed reps and time adapt.

The same is true for your example. How is one ever supposed to learn to play in a physical playoff environment if the coach holds you out and prevents you from learning. When he got into his one playoff game, he was perfectly capable of playing in that physicality.

Really it was the grizzled playoff vets brought in and Fly who let us down.

 

[GNP]

I don't know what other posters think on this ? but I'm very interested in what the Jets do with Ehlers. He's very talented, very fast, and just right now in his prime. They really need a guy like this, but I think the question is "how much" $$$ Likely he could command $ 7.5 to $ 8 mil per season in the free agency market, and considering he's somewhat injury prone, I think the Jets are somewhat in a quandry as to what to do with Ehlers. I'd like to know what others on here think ?? Trade him, or step up, and sign him.

 

[bustamente]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1826258001793261803

2 year 4.5 m

 

[DRW204]

I don't know what other posters think on this ? but I'm very interested in what the Jets do with Ehlers. He's very talented, very fast, and just right now in his prime. They really need a guy like this, but I think the question is "how much" $$$ Likely he could command $ 7.5 to $ 8 mil per season in the free agency market, and considering he's somewhat injury prone, I think the Jets are somewhat in a quandry as to what to do with Ehlers. I'd like to know what others on here think ?? Trade him, or step up, and sign him.

iirc his contract projections were around that mark. I don't know if he's going to get traded now. Maybe at the TDL if the Jets are out of it and there's still no new extension.

 

[Weezeric]

I don't know what other posters think on this ? but I'm very interested in what the Jets do with Ehlers. He's very talented, very fast, and just right now in his prime. They really need a guy like this, but I think the question is "how much" $$$ Likely he could command $ 7.5 to $ 8 mil per season in the free agency market, and considering he's somewhat injury prone, I think the Jets are somewhat in a quandry as to what to do with Ehlers. I'd like to know what others on here think ?? Trade him, or step up, and sign him.

Sign him to an extension during training camp. The Jets need some positive news after a quiet offseason.

 

[KingBogo]

Sign him to an extension during training camp. The Jets need some positive news after a quiet offseason.

I wouldn’t doubt if this was the plan. Just my opinion but if Chevy didn’t think he could re-sign Ehlers he would have been traded around the draft in June.

 

[SUX2BU]

WTF is taking so long with the Perfetti deal?

It's a process .........

 

[LowLefty]

Beniers got $50m over 7 years all whole producing less points, less goals, worse underlying statistics than Cole, last year. He also played 7 minutes a night more. So based on pure performance he should get something in that range. Did Beniers have a down year or is it who he is? That’s the bet that Seattle is making.

Doesn't matter what the bet Seattle is making - although for a true 6.2 center, it might make sense to some.
But comping Cole to this guy is not how Chevy is going to decide his next contract - and it likely won't be mentioned as a comp to begin with - they are different players playing different positions.
Cole is going to get signed one way or another - I just don't see Chevy being under pressure to match up with this guy when he has choices that include bridging - which is where I see this landing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I wouldn’t doubt if this was the plan. Just my opinion but if Chevy didn’t think he could re-sign Ehlers he would have been traded around the draft in June.

Or is he being kept as an own rental?
How do you tell until something happens?

 

[LowLefty]

With proper usage Perfetti seems to be pretty much a lock to be a 20G - 40A - 60P guy minimum as he matures. Likely he exceeds that to some extent, maybe really exceeds that. I don't see a long term deal as that much of a gamble as we know he is at worst a 2nd line winger.

I'm not quite as confident as you in Cole's production - he still has a few hurdles IMO and one of them being able to play the game at a higher pace.
I looks to me like he prefers to slow things down - and that game style can be a minus come PO's (and I think this team plays better when they incorporate speed).
Anyway - like I said, I'm in his corner - but not going to call a 60+ pt player a lock at this point - which is my point in preferring a bridge.

 

[KingBogo]

I'm not quite as confident as you in Cole's production - he still has a few hurdles IMO and one of them being able to play the game at a higher pace.
I looks to me like he prefers to slow things down - and that game style can be a minus come PO's (and I think this team plays better when they incorporate speed).
Anyway - like I said, I'm in his corner - but not going to call a 60+ pt player a lock at this point - which is my point in preferring a bridge.

What do you see a 2 year bridge deal coming in at?

Or is he being kept as an own rental?
How do you tell until something happens?

The Jets have yet to play the own rental route with any significant player. Not sure Ehlers will be the first.

 

[LowLefty]

What do you see a 2 year bridge deal coming in at?


The Jets have yet to play the own rental route with any significant player. Not sure Ehlers will be the first.

2 x 4M is where I would start

 

[KingBogo]

2 x 4M is where I would start

For me that seems on the high side for a 2 year bridge. Something in the $6 - $6.5 M for 6 - 7 years seems like a more cost effective play over the long term.

 

[LowLefty]

For me that seems on the high side for a 2 year bridge. Something in the $6 - $6.5 M for 6 - 7 years seems like a more cost effective play over the long term.

It might be - I went high to save a debate. I wouldn't sweat a 2 yr contract too much.

I'm not sold on the player for long term deals at this point - so I can't agree with what you are suggesting over 6/7.
I get that he is a valued player in the org and there are a lot of fans hoping this works out and we get the value you are pricing in.
But I don't see any reason to rush into this - I'm not convinced (yet) that he can play an up tempo game consistently.

His skating concerns me - he looks like he has to work really hard to generate anything resembling speed - and it's something that he may never work out (mechanics). And I feel that problem may impact his ability to be effective late in the season (and PO's).

This is just my opinion of the player - I'm not as convinced as some and it's not an attempt to bash the guy.
And I have a feeling Chevy will agree.

 

[KingBogo]

It might be - I went high to save a debate. I wouldn't sweat a 2 yr contract too much.

I'm not sold on the player for long term deals at this point - so I can't agree with what you are suggesting over 6/7.
I get that he is a valued player in the org and there are a lot of fans hoping this works out and we get the value you are pricing in.
But I don't see any reason to rush into this - I'm not convinced (yet) that he can play an up tempo game consistently.

His skating concerns me - he looks like he has to work really hard to generate anything resembling speed - and it's something that he may never work out (mechanics). And I feel that problem may impact his ability to be effective late in the season (and PO's).

This is just my opinion of the player - I'm not as convinced as some and it's not an attempt to bash the guy.
And I have a feeling Chevy will agree.

I won't debate you on Perfetti, as I have some reservations in some areas as well. Mostly I've been trying to pin down his comparables and what he might sign for. I've been looking through Puckpedia at RFA signings for the top tier or 2 of players this summer and with the exception of the offer sheet for Broberg they have trended 2 ways. Longer term deals of 5 - 7 years in the $5 - $7M range or 2 or 3 year sub $3 M contracts. There just haven't been the big 2 year deals that push closer to the long term deals in AAV. It seems to me GMs are low balling 2 year bridge deals pushing their top RFAs towards affordable longer term deals.

 

[LowLefty]

I won't debate you on Perfetti, as I have some reservations in some areas as well. Mostly I've been trying to pin down his comparables and what he might sign for. I've been looking through Puckpedia at RFA signings for the top tier or 2 of players this summer and with the exception of the offer sheet for Broberg they have trended 2 ways. Longer term deals of 5 - 7 years in the $5 - $7M range or 2 or 3 year sub $3 M contracts. There just haven't been the big 2 year deals that push closer to the long term deals in AAV. It seems to me GMs are low balling 2 year bridge deals pushing their top RFAs towards affordable longer term deals.

It's interesting to hear you say they are low balling bridge deals for better long term deals -
I haven't looked at it from that angle - I've never known Chevy to cheap out on bridge deals so I didn't factor that in.

 

[KingBogo]

It's interesting to hear you say they are low balling bridge deals for better long term deals -
I haven't looked at it from that angle - I've never known Chevy to cheap out on bridge deals so I didn't factor that in.

Just my opinion, but I think GMs got burnt on the big 2 - 3 year bridge deals that weren't much below long term deals, and then lost all leverage on the next UFA deals. I think more and more GMs are playing RFAs like which was the original intention of the cap system was and that is to hold the line on 2nd contracts for all but the most elite players.

 

[LowLefty]

Just my opinion, but I think GMs got burnt on the big 2 - 3 year bridge deals that weren't much below long term deals, and then lost all leverage on the next UFA deals. I think more and more GMs are playing RFAs like which was the original intention of the cap system was and that is to hold the line on 2nd contracts for all but the most elite players.

That makes sense - and leaves me thinking the bridge is still the best option.
I don't consider Cole elite

 

[KingBogo]

That makes sense - and leaves me thinking the bridge is still the best option.
I don't consider Cole elite

Then why pay $4 M AAV on a 2 year deal when a player has no leverage other than an offer sheet or holding out? Chevy is smartly sitting there with more than enough cap space to ward off other GMs thinking of an offer sheet.

Not sure if you caught any Armstrong interviews after the Broberg and Hallaway successful offer sheets, but he said GMs don't try to screw each other but rather look for teams that are in cap space trouble before they even consider the offer sheet. If they know a team can easily match they don't even try.

 

[LowLefty]

Then why pay $4 M AAV when a player has no leverage other than an offer sheet or holding out? Chevy is smartly sitting there with more than enough cap space to ward off other GMs thinking of an offer sheet.

Not sure if you caught any Armstrong interviews after the Broberg and Hallaway successful offer sheets, but he said GMs don't try to screw each other but rather look for teams that are in cap space trouble before they even consider the offer sheet. If they know a team can easily match they don't even try.

Like I said, I didn't realize the 4M was high based on todays standards - Chevy has usually paid decent on bridge deals.
So if it's less, all the better.
Yes, I was following the offer sheet discussions lately - and I do not see an offer sheet issue in this discussion - but maybe I'm missing something.