Around the NHL — Episode XLXVII

[StutzlingAway]

Korpisalo is 8/10 so far..

 

[Tuna99]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844030063152431480

Still say Coffey is better than Makar. It’s unbelievable to think Coffey went from playing with Gretzky straight to Lemieux

A proven commodity who DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY HERE. As Butchy pointed out Dorion tried to gauge his interest in discussing an extension in Ottawa and the Hawks declined to let him speak to DeBrincat's agent, which is all he should have needed to know.

You can't overlook that fact considering he was 2 years away from attaining UFA status and had a 9M QO in 23/24.

Dach was unproven but was 20 years old and was a recent 3rd overall pick that obviously had a lot of talent and upside. If the scouting staff didn't like the names available at 7 and Dorion was intent on trading the pick to speed up the rebuild, trading it for Dach would have been a far smarter way to do it as a Turris-esque buy-low move adding a talented former 3rd overall pick that was struggling.

He traded for DeBrincat because he thought it provided the best chance to push the team to the playoffs early, long-term success be damned. He didn't care about the eventual implications, as he wanted to be able to say he rebuilt the Sens into a playoff team to try to save his own job. It failed spectacularly and defending it is laughable at this point.

both are bad decisions, Dach is soft and always injured and DBC was a cat and cats can be annoying.

 

[Beech]

OHH Look.. 4 to 6 games in and we see what we have seen the last 5-7 years. Top is top, bottom is bottom. NOTHING EVER CHANGES.

Look at the Atlantic!!!! How many seasons have ended more or less with these 4 teams at the bottom.

Ground Hog season(s)

 

[BondraTime]

Wonder if we could make a play for Kekalainen to step in as GM, and bring his brother in from Nashville to head up Europe for our scouting staff and become our head amateur scout. He's been in Nashville doing fantastic for decades, both of his brothers have been among the best European scouts in the league over the past 25 years. ]

7 years as our European Scout/DOPP and Jarmo/Sens grabbed Hossa, Salo, Havlat, Dackell, Arvedsson, Rachunek, Volchenkov, Schubert. Highest pick was 12th. That's 7 full time cup contending players out of Europe in 7 years. Since he left, the only hits out of Europe (~20 years) are Silfverberg, Lehner, EK, Mika (6th), Stu (3rd), Mez and kind of Regin. Stu is the only guy in the past 13 years and was a gimme

Staios should delegate the GM position, and go back full time to the POHO role. Adding Jarmo and Janne would be great for the front office.

 

[Dan Patrick]

Wonder if we could make a play for Kekalainen to step in as GM, and bring his brother in from Nashville to head up Europe for our scouting staff and become our head amateur scout. He's been in Nashville doing fantastic for decades, both of his brothers have been among the best European scouts in the league over the past 25 years. ]

7 years as our European Scout/DOPP and Jarmo/Sens grabbed Hossa, Salo, Havlat, Dackell, Arvedsson, Rachunek, Volchenkov, Schubert. Highest pick was 12th. That's 7 full time cup contending players out of Europe in 7 years. Since he left, the only hits out of Europe (~20 years) are Silfverberg, Lehner, EK, Mika (6th), Stu (3rd), Mez and kind of Regin. Stu is the only guy in the past 13 years and was a gimme

Staios should delegate the GM position, and go back full time to the POHO role. Adding Jarmo and Janne would be great for the front office.

I don’t know how you look at what Columbus built over Jarmo’s tenure and get excited.

Pass

 

[BondraTime]

I don’t know how you look at what Columbus built over Jarmo’s tenure and get excited.

Pass

Pretty easy to look at his career and get excited about brining him in IMO

 

[Dan Patrick]

Pretty easy to look at his career and get excited about brining him in IMO

Over an 11 year term his team lost in the first round 4 times made the second round once and hasn’t been to the playoffs in almost half a decade.

Are you seeing something different than I am?

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Still say Coffey is better than Makar. It’s unbelievable to think Coffey went from playing with Gretzky straight to Lemieux


both are bad decisions, Dach is soft and always injured and DBC was a cat and cats can be annoying.

As a Karlsson-truther, I don't like points per game as a metric to judge offensive defensemen historically. The game changes so much. Things are even completely different now than they were when Karlsson was on our team.

I think that it is better to look at the context of the points. An extreme example is that in 14-15 when Jamie Benn won the Art Ross, it only took 87 points to lead the league in scoring. Last year, 87 points would have put Benn 21st in the league in scoring. Did everyone suck at scoring 10 years ago? No, it was a different game.

Karlsson is second all time in terms of greatest producer as a D. He finished first in assists, top 5 in points, etc, all while on a team with very few weapons. Not to mention, we weren't a basement team like the big season he had in San Jose, where winning didn't matter. While he had more freedom to play as he wanted, his production wasn't inflated by being on a really bad team. It's probably the opposite that it was kept down by having limited weapons to work with.

In terms of production, I'd argue Karlsson's 2016 season was leagues ahead of his 101 point season.

I don't think in terms of Karlsson's entire body of work that he is the second greatest offensive producing defenseman of all time, but in his prime seasons he was, nobody else has come close to those. Karlsson roughly matched (and in some ways outdid) what Coffey did playing with Gretzky and Lemieux/Jagr while Karlsson played with Kyle Turris and Zibanejad/Brassard.

 

[BondraTime]

Over an 11 year term his team lost in the first round 4 times made the second round once and hasn’t been to the playoffs in almost half a decade.

Are you seeing something different than I am?

Using some context that I think should apply rather than looking at their records. He's dealing with the Sens of the US. Same reason I think Bill Armstrong has been fantastic and would be a huge add, even though the Yotes are 0/4 with regards to the playoffs while he was there.

He took over a team that had been to the playoffs 1 time in the previous 11 years, brought them to the playoffs in 4 of his 6 first seasons. Wheels fall off when guys head to UFA, losing a guy like Panarin for nothing, dealing with the Dubois headache (and then Laine headache), etc.

Even in their downyears the past few, their drafts have added some fantastic players. Chinikov, Fantilli, Lindstrom, Sillinger, Brindley, Jiricek, Matechyk, etc. He has made moves when they are looking to compete, and sold for good value when they aren't a good team.

Made some great trades that never worked out because the team isn't a hot spot. Got Panarin for a song, he wanted to get to UFA. Got Seth Jones for Johanson, got a haul for a very expensive Jones.

He'd be a very nice add to a team in the Sens position with a team full of signed guys, with moves needed to be made to shore up the team

 

[Dan Patrick]

Using some context that I think should apply rather than looking at their records. He's dealing with the Sens of US. Same reason I think Bill Armstrong has been fantastic and would be a huge add, even though the Yotes are 0/4 with regards to the playoffs while he was there.

He took over a team that had been to the playoffs 1 time in the previous 11 years, brought them to the playoffs in 4 of his 6 first seasons. Wheels fall off when guys head to UFA, losing a guy like Panarin for nothing, dealing with the Dubois headache (and then Laine headache), etc.

Even in their downyears the past few, their drafts have added some fantastic players. Chinikov, Fantilli, Lindstrom, Sillinger, Brindley, Jiricek, Matechyk, etc. He has made moves when they are looking to compete, and sold for good value when they aren't a good team.

Made some great trades that never worked out because the team isn't a hot spot. Got Panarin for a song, he wanted to get to UFA. Got Seth Jones for Johanson, got a haul for a very expensive Jones.

He'd be a very nice add to a team in the Sens position with a team full of signed guys, with moves needed to be made to shore up the team

While I appreciate the write-up a counterpoint is obviously that he was able to bring in fantastic players because he has had so many high picks. When you look past the 1st round he has a pretty dreadful record of drafting players with what looks like no impact players taken outside the 1st round in nearly his entire tenure with Columbus.

You could debate in circles whether it was due to player evaluation or simply luck that he got out of Seth Jones and PLD but a serious fact remains, he's had a number of high profile and impact players simply refuse to sign long-term with the team or request a trade and he needs to accept some fault for that. He is in charge of building the culture and signing players and letting go of a #1 goalie and #1 wing for nothing and with no solid plan to replace them is brutal.

Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

As a Karlsson-truther, I don't like points per game as a metric to judge offensive defensemen historically. The game changes so much. Things are even completely different now than they were when Karlsson was on our team.

I think that it is better to look at the context of the points. An extreme example is that in 14-15 when Jamie Benn won the Art Ross, it only took 87 points to lead the league in scoring. Last year, 87 points would have put Benn 21st in the league in scoring. Did everyone suck at scoring 10 years ago? No, it was a different game.

Karlsson is second all time in terms of greatest producer as a D. He finished first in assists, top 5 in points, etc, all while on a team with very few weapons. Not to mention, we weren't a basement team like the big season he had in San Jose, where winning didn't matter. While he had more freedom to play as he wanted, his production wasn't inflated by being on a really bad team. It's probably the opposite that it was kept down by having limited weapons to work with.

In terms of production, I'd argue Karlsson's 2016 season was leagues ahead of his 101 point season.

I don't think in terms of Karlsson's entire body of work that he is the second greatest offensive producing defenseman of all time, but in his prime seasons he was, nobody else has come close to those. Karlsson roughly matched (and in some ways outdid) what Coffey did playing with Gretzky and Lemieux/Jagr while Karlsson played with Kyle Turris and Zibanejad/Brassard.

I think it is often overlooked how sub par those teams Karlsson played on were. The Melnyk and budget issues had started to rear their head early on.

 

[BondraTime]

While I appreciate the write-up a counterpoint is obviously that he was able to bring in fantastic players because he has had so many high picks. When you look past the 1st round he has a pretty dreadful record of drafting players with what looks like no impact players taken outside the 1st round in nearly his entire tenure with Columbus.

You could debate in circles whether it was due to player evaluation or simply luck that he got out of Seth Jones and PLD but a serious fact remains, he's had a number of high profile and impact players simply refuse to sign long-term with the team or request a trade and he needs to accept some fault for that. He is in charge of building the culture and signing players and letting go of a #1 goalie and #1 wing for nothing and with no solid plan to replace them is brutal.

Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I mean, you can't get rid of your best player and #1 goalie when you are in the playoffs, that would make absolutely no sense. And 4 of those guys were taken outside the top 10 picks. Chinakhov (especially considering he wasn't ranked), Brindley and Matechyk is just very good scouting.

Agreed