Around the NHL — Episode XLXVII

[Boud]

What a complete A-hole.. With a list of bad decisions that extend from the time he was made GM to the time he was let go... Accelerating the rebuild is what he choses to try to defend himself with. No mention of the back to back to back wasted 1st round picks plus the one they have to forfeit.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843414241904337372

Well I wouldn't say this is entirely accurate.

Few years back he signed Dadonov to a 3 years 15M contract. He then signed Matt Murray to a 6 year 24M contract.

He signed Korpisalo to a 5 year 20M contract.

He signed Claude Giroux to a 3 year 19.5M contract.

He signed Tarasenko to a 5M contract.

While Ottawa and Montreal are not comparable, it's not just about having money. It's about using the money that you have appropriately, which is something Dorion rarely did in Ottawe whether through trade or signing UFAs. Taking Boedker in the Hoffman trade, trading for Gudbranson instead of keeping Demelo. There's a lot.

Every GM will make mistakes, Dorion had big and constant blunders, that's the difference. The organization was run like a clown show, in parts because of Dorion. This organization wasn't nearly as disgusting when Bryan Murray was here - even with Melnyk. Dorion failed miserably to take this team forward after we had our young core locked in.

 

[Loach]

Well I wouldn't say this is entirely accurate.

Few years back he signed Dadonov to a 3 years 15M contract. He then signed Matt Murray to a 6 year 24M contract.

He signed Korpisalo to a 5 year 20M contract.

He signed Claude Giroux to a 3 year 19.5M contract.

He signed Tarasenko to a 5M contract.

While Ottawa and Montreal are not comparable, it's not just about having money. It's about using the money that you have appropriately, which is something Dorion rarely did in Ottawe whether through trade or signing UFAs. Taking Boedker in the Hoffman trade, trading for Gudbranson instead of keeping Demelo. There's a lot.

Every GM will make mistakes, Dorion had big and constant blunders, that's the difference. The organization was run like a clown show, in parts because of Dorion. This organization wasn't nearly as disgusting when Bryan Murray was here - even with Melnyk. Dorion failed miserably to take this team forward after we had our young core locked in.

You guys can both be right

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Habs pregame ceremony like they are raising the banner

 

[Boud]

You guys can both be right

Was replying to Dorion's comments not SoA. Realizing it wasn't super clear

 

[Senovision]

Sportsnet loves Matthew Knies.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

barre boulet is an insane passer.

Like legitimately top end vision for the NHL.

 

[UglyPuckling]

That’s the Cup winner, a Western playoff team and the Habs.

2 points should be expected, anything else should be considered a good outcome.

Thought maybe with the Kings being on the road, that might result in a win. Those road trips from one side of the continent to the other can be rough.

Anyhow, we’ve addressed our often discussed weakness and yet expectations seem muted.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

One thing that always bothered me about the punishment was that we only ever got information that Dorion acted alone. It's a hefty fine due the actions of 1 person. Would have made more sense to fine/punish Dorion directly as it holds him solely responsible.

Now, if there's some information in the report that multiple people knew about the mistake and didn't act to resolve it, I can understand the punishment being that substantial because it indicates a level of carelessness that's pervasive throughout the organization. However, there have been no rumours or any additional fallout that points in that direction so the penalty seems extremely excessive.

It's like if a player punched out a referee and the NHL fined the organization in addition to suspending the player. Why does the organization bear responsibility for the actions of 1 person?

I can see the logic with punishing both the club and the executive.

If a GM were on their way out, the owner or top manager could ask them to lie on a trade call and provide them with some sort of exit bonus, or provide them with some sort of additional incentive down the road that cannot be tied back to the situation. They are going to be fired anyways, and the consequence of being caught is being fired. If there is another Pierre Dorion, they might look at it like they have one foot out of the league anyways and aren't guaranteed another GM or AGM job, so they better play ball with the one connection they have and hope they don't get caught. If the team doesn't get punished, it can create those kind of incentives.

It's similar to Arizona breaking the rules in regards to fairness with the draft and testing prospects. The league wants to ensure that organizations as a whole have incentive to follow the rules.

The primary criticism of the draft pick is that if you go by what Andlauer claims, it wasn't communicated to him properly during the sale process, because that may have reflected negatively on the value of the team. I would have to go back and check to see if he straight up said that the opposite was communicated to him (it was resolved and over with). The criticism is not that the NHL should not on paper punished an organization.

Ironically, a more appropriate punishment would have been fining Melnyk while he was still alive. Because the entire purpose of the trade was to clear cash. If you want to really break it down, giving up a 1st multiple years in the future to get back a 3rd and dump 10 million dollars of cap isn't bad value. So even from a punishment perspective, it was pretty light. Had the Senators given up the 7th overall this year, that might have been different.

 

[Knave]

The spotters should take Nylander out of the game. Domi hit him in the head and he was way too slow getting back. It's clear he was shaken up and his head was scrambled even though he fought through it.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

That ole chant by Canadiens fans is one of the most dumbest shit I've heard in an NHL arena

 

[mianjo]

Leafs lose 1-0 so sad

 

[UglyPuckling]

The mighty Leaf scorers were blanked. Love it.

 

[JungleBeat]

Dach might be taking the next step

 

[Senscore]

Can't imagine anyone had a 1-0 finish in the betting pool

 

[Blotto71]

The real losers in the Tor - Mtl game are us...because one of those garbage teams had to win!

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Edmonton being reminded that they still don't have a goalie is kind of hilarious.

 

[OD99]

Dach might be taking the next step

He looked good before his injury and in our preseason matchup.

He is a pretty significant cog for the Habs.

The spotters should take Nylander out of the game. Domi hit him in the head and he was way too slow getting back. It's clear he was shaken up and his head was scrambled even though he fought through it.

They ran into each other accidentally?

 

[CDN24]

Edmonton being reminded that they still don't have a goalie is kind of hilarious.

Avs as well, 5G on 16 shots., which to be fair is better than skinner's 5 on 13.

 

[Knave]

They ran into each other accidentally?

Yeah, Nylander was in the Montreal corner fighting for the puck with a couple of Montreal players and Domi went in for a hit on one of them, pulled up last second as he realized he was about to hit Nylander.

If the aftermath didn't exist you'd think it was a nothing play. But Nylander after taking the hit just stood there not doing anything and it took 20-30 seconds before he skated out. He stayed on the ice to play the puck back into the Montreal zone and immediately went off. Those next few shifts he looked really tentative. Like a drunk guy trying to focus on walking in a straight line and doing an okay job of it but everyone knows he's drunk because of how focused he is on walking in that straight line.

Maybe I'm wrong and it's something else but it was a weird play. It looked like a nothing accidental contact albeit with the head too but Nylander took a while to get back into the play and he didn't look the same after.

 

[Silencio]

Edmonton being reminded that they still don't have a goalie is kind of hilarious.

"Frankly, I've proven that I deserve the starter's job." - Stuart Skinner

 

[NyQuil]

The real losers in the Tor - Mtl game are us...because one of those garbage teams had to win!

Just want to avoid 3 point games.

 

[Icelevel]

Sportsnet loves Matthew Knies.

Whatever.
We got Ben Roger

(Passed on knies)

 

[BankStreetParade]

I can see the logic with punishing both the club and the executive.

If a GM were on their way out, the owner or top manager could ask them to lie on a trade call and provide them with some sort of exit bonus, or provide them with some sort of additional incentive down the road that cannot be tied back to the situation. They are going to be fired anyways, and the consequence of being caught is being fired. If there is another Pierre Dorion, they might look at it like they have one foot out of the league anyways and aren't guaranteed another GM or AGM job, so they better play ball with the one connection they have and hope they don't get caught. If the team doesn't get punished, it can create those kind of incentives.

It's similar to Arizona breaking the rules in regards to fairness with the draft and testing prospects. The league wants to ensure that organizations as a whole have incentive to follow the rules.

The primary criticism of the draft pick is that if you go by what Andlauer claims, it wasn't communicated to him properly during the sale process, because that may have reflected negatively on the value of the team. I would have to go back and check to see if he straight up said that the opposite was communicated to him (it was resolved and over with). The criticism is not that the NHL should not on paper punished an organization.

Ironically, a more appropriate punishment would have been fining Melnyk while he was still alive. Because the entire purpose of the trade was to clear cash. If you want to really break it down, giving up a 1st multiple years in the future to get back a 3rd and dump 10 million dollars of cap isn't bad value. So even from a punishment perspective, it was pretty light. Had the Senators given up the 7th overall this year, that might have been different.

This scenario is so extraordinarily unlikely, I'd say it's virtually impossible. The blowback from this getting out is the deterrent to it not happening. Just for comparison, the Chicago incident involved a meeting that convened all of the most senior decision makers in the organization who collectively decided that repeated sexual assault was less important than the playoff games they were playing. That incident, which kicked off the firestorm of controversy around sexual misconduct in the NHL and involving hockey players, resulted in a monetary penalty that is worth considerably less than a first round pick.

Again, all we know is this was the action of a single individual with no detailed connection to anyone else in the organization. Whether he was given bad information because their record-keeping is not up to par is a different discussion but he alone acted and provided the false information during the trade call. The scenario you are describing does not even remotely match this scenario. So it would make more sense to discuss the punishment in this instance rather than arguing hypotheticals that are likely to never occur. Again, apart from losing his job (he was in the final year of his contract anyway), what punishment did this individual face for their own actions?

I'm willing to be more open-minded about the punishment if it's revealed that the issue involved multiple people in the organization, as that reveals a level of complicity across the entire team. Until that comes out though, this continues to be a wildly excessive punishment considering it was one person's actions. I don't have a problem with the organization bearing some responsibility but the person who was most liable didn't suffer nearly enough of a punishment, which is ultimately the most appropriate deterrent for this kind of action in the future.

 

[armani]

Whatever.
We got Ben Roger

(Passed on knies)

You mean we got Bent Dover?

 

[Senovision]

I didn't know where to put this picture. Tropicana Stadium in Tampa.