Around the NHL — Episode XLXVI
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Which is why I agree with the rest of Xspyrit's post. Did Dorion not have discussions with Brown earlier on in the season? Teams were active all season long. Heck, Brown would've been a great pitch to calgary when they acquired Toffoli. He's a Sutter type player given his engine and would've been a cheaper option for them. Anaheim didn't retain fully for Rakell either during the deadline.
At some point when we fell out of the playoff picture, which lets face it, was pretty early on in the season. Dorion should have been having conversations with players about extensions. Very little moves were made with foresight for the coming season and the "not knowing how much money he had" isn't really applicable because he acquired Hamonic's $3 million which we did not need.
I’ll take Hamonic over 2M more in dead money.
But at what cost in assets? Traded a 3rd to add Hamonic and Brown 50% retained at the deadline EASILY gets a 1st + good prospect or a 2nd, possibly more.
Dorion bungled those moves. Has done well this off-season but it would have been nice to have extra assets and extra money in this buyer's market.
Tampa extends Philippe Myers, he'll be making $1.4 million next year. A bit of a pay cut, but I won't be surprised if the bolts turn him into a legit top 4 guy.
To each their own. I personally hate dead money, unless the "savings" are being used for something more important. If Brown was retained and we got a conditional first and B prospect, I wouldn't be too salty since we could use those assets to get another player.
But then there's dead money like the Ryan buy out. Absolutely awful decision considered we had no "replacement", he could have been a legitimate forward for us. Plus it just looked awful considered his journey of recovery.
Hutz
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Brown should’ve returned more, but if the team is in playoff position in february like we hope and we dealt Brown then most fans would riot. Purely asset management-wise you’re not totally wrong, but from a team make-up standpoint dealing him in feb is a bad message to send to a playoff hopeful team and at that point you stand to lose him for nothing. I still think there had to be a way to use him as a chip to upgrade the D, though.
Come on. This hindsight thing is out of control, should we have traded Zub at last year’s deadline, Debrincat at this year’s deadline maybe any NCAA prospect like Klevin who won’t sign before their Junior year.
Did I say we should have traded Zub? Not sure what you're going on about with DeBrincat and Kleven.
It's not hindsight. Brown wanted a fresh start and should have been dealt at the deadline when his value was at it's highest.
It was dumb and a waste of assets. Assets we could use right now in a deal for a guy like Chychrun.
Debrincat is 2 years from UFA as is Klevin. You specifically said Dorion should have known what Browns intentions regarding a new contract were earlier last year. Early last year Brown was 2 years from UFA, so if you are being consistent I’m assuming you think trading guys earlier than the summer before they are a year away from walking is the best course of action.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
I think it's very possible to have something called foresight. I personally use it in my personal life.
It's when you plan in advance, you visualize incoming deadlines and manage the situation ahead. It pays off in general
To make things clear - if DeBrincat won't re-sign by this off-season he should absolutely be traded.
Zub is a different case for me. He's a top 4 RD and that's our biggest need. There were none available (besides Marino, who should be a Senator right now
) in UFA this off-season and no one wants to trade them. Even if he's likely to test UFA I'd rather we hold onto him, at least until the deadline, as trading him would create a big hole in our D and kill any chance of making the playoffs.Brown was a different story. Not nearly as hard to replace a 2nd line forward and he isn't nearly as valuable to the team.
Dorion DID have foresight, which is why he didn’t trade Brown before securing adequate replacements.
Brown didn’t want to be relegated to a third line winger in a contract year and beyond on the Sens, so we traded him instead of being huge dicks and screwing him during last chance at a big contract. We also needed cash on hand for another D if we can get one, because we aren’t a cap team yet and have a budget.
It would have been worse trying to trade Brown near camp
When we are under pressure, and teams no longer have cap space. Guys would have ripped PD for sure!
We also have a solid third line without him, and solid prospects kicking at the door. PD has already said that he expects Formenton’ rap to be done soon, and we have Pinto and Joseph as well.
Trading Brown when we did was just fine. We were never going into the season with a guy who didn’t want to be here, and we were never going to trade him before we had brought in guys this off season.
I get a sense that the last few guys making this argument simply refuse to read all of the posts explaining the reasoning.
Brown didn’t want to be relegated to a third line winger in a contract year and beyond on the Sens, so we traded him instead of being huge dicks and screwing him during last chance at a big contract. We also needed cash on hand for another D if we can get one, because we aren’t a cap team yet and have a budget.
It would have been worse trying to trade Brown near camp
When we are under pressure, and teams no longer have cap space. Guys would have ripped PD for sure!
We also have a solid third line without him, and solid prospects kicking at the door. PD has already said that he expects Formenton’ rap to be done soon, and we have Pinto and Joseph as well.
Trading Brown when we did was just fine. We were never going into the season with a guy who didn’t want to be here, and we were never going to trade him before we had brought in guys this off season.
I get a sense that the last few guys making this argument simply refuse to read all of the posts explaining the reasoning.
I second this. Look I want DeBrincat and Zub to retire as Senators, but let's say we start sucking this season and are out of the playoff picture by December like we were last year. If any player indicates they don't want to extend their contract here, I sure as hell hope Dorion moves them sooner than later.
And let me reiterate, I want DeBrincat and Zub to have great seasons, and sign long term with the Sens.
Absolutely valid point, but we were out of the playoff picture by January with all of our injuries (including Brown).
If DBC doesn’t sign an extension by the end of next off season, or perhaps even a sooner deadline like the TDL or pre draft, then he will be traded.
I’ll go on record saying that there is ZERO chance that Dorion goes down that road ever again. He has the return from EK, vs Stone and Duchene to fuel the common sense approach regardless of how difficult it is.
Masked
(Super/star)
And in this case you're using something called hindsight. I don't personally use it my personal life.
It's when your understanding of a situation or event is based upon what has already has happened. It doesn't pay off at all.
assennayo
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
Nah, not at all, don't have time to explain in deep but I say a lot of things that are not based on hindsight. Like when I was repeating that we have to trade Tierney in 2019 and 2020. See what happened? Multiple examples of things I have said that ended up being like I was saying.
I am assuming a NHL GM knows what his salary cap situation is now and going forward. You have all the board in front of you. If you intend to trade a 7th OA pick, you can surely get a good & expensive player. Worst case scenario, you get a Pacioretty basically for free. You can also go hard at the UFA market as you have money to spend and can even get a short term deal like Hall or Klingberg. You have to decide IN ADVANCE what you are going to do with a player of Brown's caliber. If you want to extend him, KEEP HIM. If he wants to test the UFA market or he doesn't fit the salary cap structure going forward, trade him when his stock is the highest, which was before the last deadline
thisisnotrocketscienceyo
One thing we know for sure is that no team in the league makes these kinds of endless micro transactions in hopes of potentially adding a late round pick here and there, while also having to replace the endless parade of outgoing players.
The only time we had that amount of turn over was during a planned phase of our rebuild.
They are spreadsheet data crowd transactions. Can be interesting, but are not realistic.
The only time we had that amount of turn over was during a planned phase of our rebuild.
They are spreadsheet data crowd transactions. Can be interesting, but are not realistic.
The funny thing is that even in hindsight it makes no sense because Brown only became fully expendable after we acquired both better forwards. Trading him at the last TDL would have looked like a big step back for our young progressing team, and the return wasn’t even guaranteed to have been better.
Imagine the exit interviews lol….
We got solid value for the guy; a second round pick with no retention and no contract coming back. We traded him at a time where not only was there a market, but it gave us more cash to play with for the rest of the off season.
Sweatred
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Micklebot
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I'd say we need him if we don't add a top 4 RD, but if he's our 3rd pair RD, we have options in Holden, Zaitsev, Thomson and JBD.
Not saying Hamonic doesn't make us better, just that the importance of a 3rd pair d is pretty low in the scheme of things. We went to the ECF with Claesson, Harpur, and Wideman playing games.
Exactly.
We're a budget team and unfortunately tough decisions need to be made and money needs to be saved wherever possible.
We traded Paul because we didn't want to spend 3M+ on a bottom 6 forward with a bunch of cheap LWs on ELCs on the way.
Can't really justify paying 3.25M to Hamonic to be our 6th D when Brannstrom/JBD/Thomson should be able to do a decent job in the same role for 1M.
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