Around the League Thread | Pre-Season Approaches

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MS

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I'm old enough to remember him as a player as well. And you're correct that he started off as a lazy skill guy who leeched points off of playing with Palffy (an all time favorite of mine). But when that stopped working, you will also recall, he reinvented himself as a defensive center which takes humility and hockey sense to do.

His stint in Utica we went from being hapless in the minors to going to the finals. What was he given to work with? We were a team with horrendous depth and (after 2020) a broken culture from way above.
His stint in New Jersey with some of the worst goaltending and all of their D injured doesn't tell me anything.

I'm not saying he's the best coach in the league. But he's a sharp guy and I think he's a decent coach who will probably improve as he continues to wet his feet.

Green was part of the cancerous Darcy Tucker/Shayne Corson clique in Toronto and was hardly considered any sort of character player during his career.

To me he was in the same kind of group of player as guys like Corson and Chris Gratton - players who because they were Canadian and facewashed guys in scrums got away with lazy play that any European would have been crucified for.
 

MarkusNaslund19

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Green was part of the cancerous Darcy Tucker/Shayne Corson clique in Toronto and was hardly considered any sort of character player during his career.

To me he was in the same kind of group of player as guys like Corson and Chris Gratton - players who because they were Canadian and facewashed guys in scrums got away with lazy play that any European would have been crucified for.
I know he was part of that clique, whatever that means since we don't know the team from that era. All we know is that they were ostracized.
Not sure if it was at precisely the same time, but Corson did something terrible to betray a teammate around that time.

It may be that Green stuck by him, which helped lead to a fractured dressing room.

But I'm also willing to believe that over 20 year span a guy can mature in that way.
 
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Nick Lang

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a bunch more injuries and maybe the NHL will realize that the slight money grab is not worth it and reduce the amount of preseason games.

Is it a money grab though ... or are they legit trying to get ready for the season? I mean if injuries during the pre-season are a serious problem to hockey clubs it wouldn't be very hard to just dress your AHL team the entire time or not try hard and put yourself in a dangerous situation like Doughty did.

I mean, this is pretty normal. A few guys get hurt in preseason every year just like any other similar sample size of games.

Yeah, this seems normal in hockey. Players get injured all the time. Should they shorten the regular season too or start flipping a coin for wins instead?

I'd argue a lot of that is overblown and romanticized. Dude wasn't winning any Selkes or have an Yzerman or Malhotra level reinvention. Like, c'mon.



So anything that puts him in a bad light isn't to be considered, while everything that could be cause for celebration is? Nothing I see from his coaching career really highlights a good coach, even the stuff you touted as positives, and everything I've heard/seen from him is just the same arrogant POS he was as a player.

I legit don't get what people see in him beyond someone who is part of the old boy's club. Good coaches have to contend with injuries, too, and they usually don't crater to the level they did under Green on numerous teams.



I know you didn't say that, but I'm still curious as to what constitutes a bad coach for you.

I don't see him as particularly sharp and is rather more of an outmoded dinosaur.

When reading your posts it seems like you're just out to vilify him. I know you didn't ask me but a bad coach is one who doesn't know the X's and O's, subtilties (finer points) of the game, or is unable convey them to his team, can't control his players, motivate them, keep the team on task, set up proper training, build them up, win games, and have care, concern and personally build relationships. Stuff like that.

The funny thing that I see when these criticisms come up is these are all things you can't see through your TV screen. You have absolutely no idea what he's teaching them, what his "pillars" are, how their training is set-up, what he's asking them individually, the finer points on instruction, and whether the players are responding appropriately or not on a losing team. In short it's very difficult to judge coaching through your TV. So whenever people start piling on like this it's usually just a bias or collective frustration they've formed, which appears to very prevalent with Green for Vancouver fans.

Just like any other coaching situation it would be fairer to start judging his results moving forward, not his first kick at the can with a horrible hockey team, or a mercy finish on an already floundering team. I can remember all the people calling RT garbage because of his previous record and "apparent" coaching ability too. Recall the same with Torts here and then he won the Jack Adams the next year with Columbus. You can gain hockey knowledge by watching ... coaching not so much.

I know he was part of that clique, whatever that means since we don't know the team from that era. All we know is that they were ostracized.
Not sure if it was at precisely the same time, but Corson did something terrible to betray a teammate around that time.

It may be that Green stuck by him, which helped lead to a fractured dressing room.

But I'm also willing to believe that over 20 year span a guy can mature in that way.

Yup, I absolutely hated him as a player. Partially because of how dimwitted that organization was to target him in the first place with all their money to spend.

I was impressed by how he became a student of the game during his later years and really bought into being a team player, helping young players, and learning from his coaches. Surely people can mature.
 
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arttk

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Is it a money grab though ... or are they legit trying to get ready for the season? I mean if injuries during the pre-season are a serious problem to hockey clubs it wouldn't be very hard to just dress your AHL team the entire time or not try hard and put yourself in a dangerous situation like Doughty did.



Yeah, this seems normal in hockey. Players get injured all the time. Should they shorten the regular season too or start flipping a coin for wins instead?



When reading your posts it seems like you're just out to vilify him. I know you didn't ask me but a bad coach is one who doesn't know the X's and O's, subtilties (finer points) of the game, or is unable convey them to his team, can't control his players, motivate them, keep the team on task, set up proper training, build them up, win games, and have care, concern and personally build relationships. Stuff like that.

The funny thing that I see when these criticisms come up is these are all things you can't see through your TV screen. You have absolutely no idea what he's teaching them, what his "pillars" are, how their training is set-up, what he's asking them individually, the finer points on instruction, and whether the players are responding appropriately or not on a losing team. In short it's very difficult to judge coaching through your TV. So whenever people start piling on like this it's usually just a bias or collective frustration they've formed, which appears to very prevalent with Green for Vancouver fans.

Just like any other coaching situation it would be fairer to start judging his results moving forward, not his first kick at the can with a horrible hockey team, or a mercy finish on an already floundering team. I can remember all the people calling RT garbage because of his previous record and "apparent" coaching ability too. Recall the same with Torts here and then he won the Jack Adams the next year with Columbus. You can gain hockey knowledge by watching ... coaching not so much.
My buddy has season tix to the Kraken and they are making him buy preseason games at full price which is like 80bucks per. So yeah it’s a money grab.
 

valkynax

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Random story - one time while he was a Canuck, we got whooped by the Stars like 7-1 or something, and he scored. I tweeted something stupid like “yes, Dalpe scored! He’s in my fantasy pool…said no one ever”.

He liked the Tweet. :laugh: I felt like a huge dickhead.

Yes, in my culture that's considered a dick move.
:laugh:
 
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JT Milker

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That sounds like a ligament repair for Reinbacher, that sucks. However, 5-6 months would be incredibly aggressive for something big like an ACL, must be meniscus which should be a 100% recovery.
 

StreetHawk

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My buddy has season tix to the Kraken and they are making him buy preseason games at full price which is like 80bucks per. So yeah it’s a money grab.
Nfl is the same. Assume nba and nhl would be as well. Will charge full price for pre season games to their season ticket base which is insane.

DD the closet knight to him when he got hurt was Pearson who is a decade plus nhl vet. Vs the 25 year old ahler that kneed Laine.

Nfl can get ready with scrimmages vs other clubs. Full contact in pads save for hitting the QB.

Not sure the nhl can do the same as its more of a flow game vs set plays.

I agree that PS is too long. Should be just 4 games to get your regulars their action plus the few youngsters who are pushing for spots.
 
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Just A Bit Outside

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Was just in Vegas and their preseason tickets were cheap (for upper bowl).

Sub $30.

Lower bowl pricing was expensive though.
 

StreetHawk

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i think season tickets holders have to pay full price and they end up trying to unload it on stubhub for like half or quarter of what they paid for.
No pre-season game in North America is worth their price or time for the most part.

NFL - at best in game 3, there are teams that want to play their starters through to the start of the 2nd half to get their games exposure to coming out at the half.

NHL/NBA probably the final game or two is when the full actual lineup plays. These would be the only PS games I'd actually go and watch.
 

arttk

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No pre-season game in North America is worth their price or time for the most part.

NFL - at best in game 3, there are teams that want to play their starters through to the start of the 2nd half to get their games exposure to coming out at the half.

NHL/NBA probably the final game or two is when the full actual lineup plays. These would be the only PS games I'd actually go and watch.
i know, it's f***ed up. my buddy got charged like $80ish per ticket and the quality of game is so shit for that price. I could get those tix for like 20bucks on stubhub and that feels more in line with the quality on the ice.
 

Nick Lang

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May 14, 2015
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My buddy has season tix to the Kraken and they are making him buy preseason games at full price which is like 80bucks per. So yeah it’s a money grab.

Yeah that's different though. It's season tickets ... that's from the team side not the league. They shouldn't be charging full price for that rubbish. It's criminal really. They basically make their money in pre-season by forcing the season ticket holders to purchase those games as part of their discounted package, when no sane individual should waste their money like that.

Certainly anyone that willingly pays that much for a pre-season game deserves to lose their bank. I'm pretty sure all NHL teams are in on that season ticket scam job. It's like hidden fees when you think you're getting a great deal. It's not the league though. They would just run them as a regular season game then if it's a league money grab since pre-season is not well attended.

At the end of the day you have to be a nimrod or just ignorant regarding hockey and sports to purchase pre-season tickets on purpose.
 

arttk

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Feb 16, 2006
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At the end of the day you have to be a nimrod or just ignorant regarding hockey and sports to purchase pre-season tickets on purpose.
i don't know about that, 20 bucks for a ticket to an exhibition game is not that bad. It's like cheaper than going to the theater and the kids enjoy it.

teams probably make a couple million off those games easy and since pre-season is the same as playoffs in the sense that the players aren't getting paid for it, it's just pure gravy for them.
 
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ChilliBilly

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My buddy has season tix to the Kraken and they are making him buy preseason games at full price which is like 80bucks per. So yeah it’s a money grab.
My family had great seats since 1970. We let 2 of them go in 2018 because of Benning. I can't afford the seats, and the preseason games are like $180 each now. There were years where there were 5 preseason games, at a cost of roughly $3500 in todays pricing.
 

Nick Lang

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May 14, 2015
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Was just in Vegas and their preseason tickets were cheap (for upper bowl).

Sub $30.

Lower bowl pricing was expensive though.

That's how it should be. It's a team exercise they need (not us) to get ready without much entertainment for the fans. They should change just a token amount to keep the lights on and staff paid.

When I lived in Cowtown just about all pre-season tickets were give aways, season ticket holders, and corporate seats. Super easy to find free tickets.

i don't know about that, 20 bucks for a ticket to an exhibition game is not that bad. It's like cheaper than going to the theater and the kids enjoy it.

teams probably make a couple million off those games easy and since pre-season is the same as playoffs in the sense that the players aren't getting paid for it, it's just pure gravy for them.

Oh heck yeah. $20 is very reasonable, you can't do much of anything for less these days. Full price ($80) is just crazy dumb money though. People should only look down on themselves if they willingly pay that kind of silly money. Just don't buy tickets for crap hockey.

Everyone is on conspiracies these days ... I just see pre-season games and regular business practice but if it's a money grab to you than just don't be a sucker I would say. If you're well off enough to buy season tickets good for you but just realize you're also buying 6 crap pre-season games at exorbitant prices.
 
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arttk

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That's how it should be. It's a team exercise they need (not us) to get ready without much entertainment for the fans. They should change just a token amount to keep the lights on and staff paid.

When I lived in Cowtown just about all pre-season tickets were give aways, season ticket holders, and corporate seats. Super easy to find free tickets.



Oh heck yeah. $20 is very reasonable, you can't do much of anything for less these days. Full price ($80) is just crazy dumb money though. People should only look down on themselves if they willingly pay that kind of silly money. Just don't buy tickets for crap hockey.

Everyone is on conspiracies these days ... I just see pre-season games and regular business practice but if it's a money grab to you than just don't be a sucker I would say. If you're well off enough to buy season tickets good for you but just realize you're also buying 6 crap pre-season games at exorbitant prices.
well the people paying full price are season ticket holders who are forced to do it in order to buy season tix.
 

Hansen

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Random story - one time while he was a Canuck, we got whooped by the Stars like 7-1 or something, and he scored. I tweeted something stupid like “yes, Dalpe scored! He’s in my fantasy pool…said no one ever”.

He liked the Tweet. :laugh: I felt like a huge dickhead.
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ Praise Dalpe! ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ @Pip @tc23
 

StreetHawk

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$92.5 mill is about 5% increase from the $88 mill. 5% per the MOU was the stated annual increase unless the 2 sides agreed to something different. Don't think the NHL wants to make the same mistake the NBA did when it jacked up their cap when their last new TV deal kicked in. That's when guys like Kelly Olynyk got $50 mill over 4 years. Don't think the PA would ok an 8% increase, but will keep in the 5% range until they catch up with the benefit of really low escrow to the players as the main reason for not jacking up the cap.
 
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