Around the League Thread Part III: Free Agent Frenzy Hangover

[Statto]

Our scouting department has improved significantly since the departure of Lombardi if we're being honest. Our player development, especially at forward, is still extremely suspect.

I wouldn’t say suspect, it’s unproven.

Only now do they actually have a number of skilled forwards to develop. If you look at Kempe for example, he’s pretty much heading into next season as the player he was projected to be. It’s not a development home run but it’s not a fail either and you could say his early, slower development took place prior to the current regime getting into place and changing how they want to build things.

Give it 2-3 years and we will have a much better idea on where we are at on development.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

It's not like they would, hypothetically, suspend a player indefinitely while they investigate and eventually wait for said player to self deport and never resolve it.

Yeah, I get it; I thought of the Voynov situation too (another movie we Kings' fans've seen - how come all our movies since 2014 have been 'Freddy Got Fingered' and sequels?) - but, there are a couple of significant differences between the two, not the least of which is the fact that Voynov was accused of a truly violent crime (in the precise era where this issue was under an intense microscope in pro sports, no less), whereas Kane's accused, at least for right now, of "merely" being a completely irresponsible self-sabotaging douchebag.

The locker room thing is another matter, and if that just gets too much for them to handle, maybe they'll try and cut him loose; my point is, unless more vile/illegal actions of his come to light, I don't think the NHL itself is going to be in a particular hurry to even "touch" this one (having said that, watch: the league will suspend him later this morning)...

 

[BigKing]

Our scouting department has improved significantly since the departure of Lombardi if we're being honest. Our player development, especially at forward, is still extremely suspect.

Proof of this? Mikey Anderson is the best draft pick they've made so far based on draft position and on-ice results. They've had a more impactful first draft but was the 2006 draft really Lombardi's draft? People on here say it wasn't. So was 2017 Blake's? All the same scouts that were doing the scouting all year under DL until he was canned not too long before the draft. Putting that aside, Anderson became a regular in his 4th season from the 4th round and Lombardi didn't have that...kind of with Lewis but not as impactful as Anderson. In 2007, he gets Martinez in the 4th who winds up being a regular in his 4th season.

That's really all there is as far as tangible NHL results so all of this belief that everyone in scouting and drafting is better than before is pure speculation and hope. Now, I hope it winds up being true but it is far too early to be making that statement as fact. I mean, Lombardi's last draft in 2016 sucked (only had picks in rounds 2, 4, 5, 7) but the one before in 2015 saw them walk out with Cernak, Wagner and Roy without a 1st round pick. Of course he effed up the Cernak thing but a six pick draft with Cernak and Roy without a 1st is pretty damn good.

I know Futa had a big say in drafting Simmonds, but I wonder if the uptick in positive press for the Kings drafting since Blake took over is due to Yanetti having more control over it since Futa left. Drafting in the top 5 is one thing, but I feel like public sphere prospect evaluators have loved all of our round 2-7 picks in the last 3-4 drafts too (which is great).

Development will still be the key, but I think we're starting to see that bear fruit with players like Iafallo, Anderson, Bjornfot, and Kaliyev.

The uptick in positive press is because there wasn't anything good to talk about since all of the good picks were traded during the back half of Lombardi's tenure. It's as if everyone wants to forget that Lombardi put together a highly ranked prospect pool as well with basically the same scouts, a pool that all of us--and the public sphere prospect evaluators--were fawning over as well just as much as we are this one.

I will also say that everyone loves when a team trades up for someone they like and they generally don't like it when they move down. Lombardi supposedly killed it with the Zykov trade up. Don't get me wrong: I love the Faber trade up as well as the entire Day 2 philosophy of this past draft but. Fagemo is another. Faber one has resulted in a great D+1 season so there is optimism for that but the 2021 draft is very much riding the high that is trading up for a faller or the guy you like. Might turn out, might not but the trade up is generally viewed favorably until we see the results.

As for development, I wouldn't include Iafallo at all since he was a UDFA that immediately played NHL hockey. It's kind of hard to discern what development is: is it your examples of Anderson and Bjornfot? Two years of college and 53 AHL games for the former and the latter being a guy that played some SHL in his draft season and was described as mostly a finished product that only has 44 games of AHL on his resume? Is Matt Roy the better example with three years in college and then 94 AHL games across two seasons plus some playoffs on top of it? It's just tough for me to really know what happens good because of development and what goes wrong because of it: I just feel so much of it comes down to the player and it isn't always a talent question.

 

[YP44]

"Kapril The Thrill" is going to be 'thrilling it up' in Moscow soon if Guerin is going to continue playing hard ball.

sounds like the Wild have offered north of $8M/year which is crazy for a guy who has played so little....also I think worth it.

 

[deeshamrock]

NHL Rumors: Henrik Lundqvist back on ice; Kirill Kaprizov to KHL not an idle threat; and Zibanejad for Eichel?


This is not some idle threat. The deal is believed to be at least $10,000,000 and Kaprizov could make even more in endorsements in his native Russia.

Per Kaprizov’s camp, they have not received an offer from the Wild after they rejected an 8 year deal. This KHL tactic may have worked as it seems GM Bill Guerin is willing to now do a short-term deal.

If the Wild give him an LTC at 10M, based on 50 games, they are crazy.

 

[YP44]

NHL Rumors: Henrik Lundqvist back on ice; Kirill Kaprizov to KHL not an idle threat; and Zibanejad for Eichel?


This is not some idle threat. The deal is believed to be at least $10,000,000 and Kaprizov could make even more in endorsements in his native Russia.

Per Kaprizov’s camp, they have not received an offer from the Wild after they rejected an 8 year deal. This KHL tactic may have worked as it seems GM Bill Guerin is willing to now do a short-term deal.

If the Wild give him an LTC at 10M, based on 50 games, they are crazy.

I don't see why Buffalo is interested in Zib, at least not with an extension.

 

[Brodeur]

Maybe, but every person that finally tastes success has some used car salesman moments along the way. It’s possible for Murray to have been not that great for us and then figured it out when he got to TB.

I forget which scout said it, but his observation went something along the lines of "this is the only profession where if you're right 15% of the time, you're doing a good job." Sometimes it's more random than we like to admit. David Conte had a long tenure with the Devils as head amateur scout. New Jersey had some amazing drafts in the 1990s and then had a bunch of misses in the 2000s. Colorado had a home run draft in 2009 (IIRC they had O'Reilly #15 and Barrie #22 on their list) then whiffed in 2010 presumably with the same scouting staff. Ditto Boston between 2006 and 2007, granted there was a GM change there.

We got a peek at Columbus' drafts in 2006 and 2007 thanks to a Gare Joyce book. Columbus had Claude Giroux #11 in 2006 but weren't in a position to grab him, so they don't get "credit" for that talent evaluation. And infamously, they would have ended up with Kopitar by default had somebody taken Gilbert Brule ahead of them. It can be a thin line between looking like a dummy/genius.

 

[Brodeur]

I don't see why Buffalo is interested in Zib, at least not with an extension.

I think the rumor is that it'd be an indirect three way trade where the Rangers would trade Zibanejad to somebody like Minnesota for picks/prospects. Then use that return plus more to send to Buffalo for Eichel. It'd be similar to the Duchene/Turris deal a few years back.

Nashville: Turris
Ottawa: Kamenev, Girard, Nashville 2nd rounder

Ottawa: Duchene (+Hammond contract dump)
Colorado: Kamenev, Girard, Bowers, Ottawa 1st rounder, Nashville 2nd rounder, Ottawa 3rd rounder

Similar in that Turris had a year left on his deal like Zibanejad has now. Ottawa paid a premium to get an extra year of Duchene but apparently Turris had rebuffed their extension offers. And I'll admit that I didn't think Colorado got enough for Duchene since I thought Ottawa was a playoff team and that 1st wasn't going to yield a blue chip prospect.

 

[YP44]

I think the rumor is that it'd be an indirect three way trade where the Rangers would trade Zibanejad to somebody like Minnesota for picks/prospects. Then use that return plus more to send to Buffalo for Eichel. It'd be similar to the Duchene/Turris deal a few years back.

Nashville: Turris
Ottawa: Kamenev, Girard, Nashville 2nd rounder

Ottawa: Duchene (+Hammond contract dump)
Colorado: Kamenev, Girard, Bowers, Ottawa 1st rounder, Nashville 2nd rounder, Ottawa 3rd rounder

Similar in that Turris had a year left on his deal like Zibanejad has now. Ottawa paid a premium to get an extra year of Duchene but apparently Turris had rebuffed their extension offers. And I'll admit that I didn't think Colorado got enough for Duchene since I thought Ottawa was a playoff team and that 1st wasn't going to yield a blue chip prospect.

This seems more likely

 

[Stimpythecat]

I can imagine the sabres would hate the idea of sending Eichel to the rangers. But a couple of other teams mentioned as destinations are simply not happening.

Sharks don't have the assets.
Wild have that cap bottleneck from the buyouts. They won't be competing during that time.

 

[YP44]

I can imagine the sabres would hate the idea of sending Eichel to the rangers. But a couple of other teams mentioned as destinations are simply not happening.

Sharks don't have the assets.
Wild have that cap bottleneck from the buyouts. They won't be competing during that time.

Flames keeps getting brought up, and, even though I have no clue how they make it work, I never count vegas out.

The number of teams is definitely dwindling. I would think the offers received to buffalo has to be as well.

 

[YP44]

Kaprizov for Eichel....who says no

 

[kilowatt]

Proof of this? Mikey Anderson is the best draft pick they've made so far based on draft position and on-ice results. They've had a more impactful first draft but was the 2006 draft really Lombardi's draft? People on here say it wasn't. So was 2017 Blake's? All the same scouts that were doing the scouting all year under DL until he was canned not too long before the draft. Putting that aside, Anderson became a regular in his 4th season from the 4th round and Lombardi didn't have that...kind of with Lewis but not as impactful as Anderson. In 2007, he gets Martinez in the 4th who winds up being a regular in his 4th season.

That's really all there is as far as tangible NHL results so all of this belief that everyone in scouting and drafting is better than before is pure speculation and hope. Now, I hope it winds up being true but it is far too early to be making that statement as fact. I mean, Lombardi's last draft in 2016 sucked (only had picks in rounds 2, 4, 5, 7) but the one before in 2015 saw them walk out with Cernak, Wagner and Roy without a 1st round pick. Of course he effed up the Cernak thing but a six pick draft with Cernak and Roy without a 1st is pretty damn good.

Yannetti in one of his recent interviews (perhaps with Hoven, I can't remember which) mentioned that during the Lombardi years, they overcompensated towards a specific kind of player — hard-working, two-way types — and mentioned that they have a bit more purchase to break out of that box. I guess I shouldn't have said that our scouting department has improved, but that I feel we are making more diverse picks in terms of types of players.

The obvious follow up to this is that during the Lombardi years, once we started seeing success, we were picking later in the first and second rounds if at all. We'll hit that wall at some point here too. But I look at picks like Teubert and Forbort and can't help but wonder if those were the consensus best picks from the whole scouting staff.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Yannetti in one of his recent interviews (perhaps with Hoven, I can't remember which) mentioned that during the Lombardi years, they overcompensated towards a specific kind of player — hard-working, two-way types — and mentioned that they have a bit more purchase to break out of that box. I guess I shouldn't have said that our scouting department has improved, but that I feel we are making more diverse picks in terms of types of players.

The obvious follow up to this is that during the Lombardi years, once we started seeing success, we were picking later in the first and second rounds if at all. We'll hit that wall at some point here too. But I look at picks like Teubert and Forbort and can't help but wonder if those were the consensus best picks from the whole scouting staff.

Along that same note, Yannetti now feels like the restraints are taken off. He was able to execute his plan last draft to a T. It's like he felt liberated on being able to move up on numerous targeted picks and go the quality vs quantity route.

Talk about a new love for your job... dude's sex life probably increased tenfold.

 

[TwzKing]

This leafs goalie coach hiring and firing is hilarious.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Life comes at you fast.


He can go join Dustin Penner and Bernie Nicholls as part of their lunatic crew.

 

[YP44]

Olympic decision deadline end of the month.

 

[BigKing]

Yannetti in one of his recent interviews (perhaps with Hoven, I can't remember which) mentioned that during the Lombardi years, they overcompensated towards a specific kind of player — hard-working, two-way types — and mentioned that they have a bit more purchase to break out of that box. I guess I shouldn't have said that our scouting department has improved, but that I feel we are making more diverse picks in terms of types of players.

The obvious follow up to this is that during the Lombardi years, once we started seeing success, we were picking later in the first and second rounds if at all. We'll hit that wall at some point here too. But I look at picks like Teubert and Forbort and can't help but wonder if those were the consensus best picks from the whole scouting staff.

Lombardi definitely had his preferences on a type of player v. Blake which led to some questionable picks. Right or wrong though, you knew what Lombardi was looking for and what type of player they wanted to bring in whereas I'm not sure what a "Rob Blake player" is at this point in time except for that player being a center. I'm not saying that Lombardi was right since there were definitely more talented players passed on in favor of his type of dudes. Maybe Blake will show that more moving forward since the cupboard is stocked and they can be more specific, like Helenius for example.

I just can't say they are better now because I don't have much in the way of any tangible results and it is hard to argue with Lombardi's 2nd round and beyond results over the years from mostly the same scouting staff. I sure hope we can look back in a couple of years and say that they are much better now than before, however.

 

[YP44]

Life comes at you fast.


He can go join Dustin Penner and Bernie Nicholls as part of their lunatic crew.

i wonder how he did not mesh wit hthe company protocols

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

i wonder how he did not mesh wit hthe company protocols

I’m guessing the retweeting/liking of homophobic and racist posts is probably not a good sign.

 

[BigBrown]

He had liked a bunch tweets that among other things supported the capitol riots, were anti vaxx, some comments about trans-people competing in sports, something regarding Lebron James and a cop (I'm out of the loop) and so on. Not a great look for any team that hires him.

 

[Stimpythecat]

Someone mentioned there was also a like for a tweet for killing Pence.

I'm very disappointed in Dusty Imoo. This explains why the kings let him go.

 

[YP44]

I’m guessing the retweeting/liking of homophobic and racist posts is probably not a good sign.

first i have heard of that.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

wow Dusty got milkshake duck'ed

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

first i have heard of that.

People dug through his history and did the background check for the Leafs. He has since deactivated his account, but the receipts are there. He can go back to Russia now.