Around the League Thread Part II: Final Stretch

[DoktorJeep]

What choice do they have? Chicago has done it and are closer to being a playoff team...

The Sens GM is no genius, but he made tough decisions to jettison overpaid, under performing vets. He hired a young coach and turned over the roster to youth. And the team ended last season with improved play. Who do you think gets more points next season, Ottawa or LA?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If the plan is to ease prospects into the lineup while keeping aging, expensive vets, then the plan stinks.

How many of those vets are left? Kopitar, Brown, Doughty and Quick? They’ve dealt all the ones with value, and retained the core veterans who came up internally, and Kopitar yet again led the team in scoring, Brown led the team in goals, Doughty led the blueline in every category, and Quick actually performed better than Petersen down the stretch.

They’re not going to trade every veteran, but they certainly moved all the ones who had any value. The team would somehow be even more lost without those vets. Just read Trent Yawney’s comments on Drew’s importance for example.

It also is no easy task to move some of those contracts, and in the next two summers, we’ll see Brown then Quick become UFAs. Kopitar has three years left, and Drew has the longest term remaining at six years, and these contracts aren’t preventing the team from getting better.

Now we wait on the new core to step in and take over. They eased in some of those players last season, but it’s unreasonable to expect a lineup of 20 rookies and inexperienced players to turn these Kings into a playoff team. On the plus side of the struggles is that the team has been able to stockpile multiple assets, which they desperately needed.

The off-season hasn’t even kicked off yet. Do any of you really believe that the roster we saw in the last game of season will be the same as the one that takes the ice in October? I don’t.

 

[Schmooley]

The Sens GM is no genius, but he made tough decisions to jettison overpaid, under performing vets. He hired a young coach and turned over the roster to youth. And the team ended last season with improved play. Who do you think gets more points next season, Ottawa or LA?

Not again with the Senators jock riding on this board… Their owner doesnt like to spend so he got rid of expensive players. Free agents dont want to sign there. And their locker room had issues between players and families. They are where they are because they had no other choice. Not because they have a genius gm with a great vision.

 

[SFKingshomer]

The Sens GM is no genius, but he made tough decisions to jettison overpaid, under performing vets. He hired a young coach and turned over the roster to youth. And the team ended last season with improved play. Who do you think gets more points next season, Ottawa or LA?

He was forced to by ownership. Who wants Doughty and Kopitar at their cap hits? They aren’t worth shit unless Blake retains.

 

[Schrute farms]

The Sens GM is no genius, but he made tough decisions to jettison overpaid, under performing vets. He hired a young coach and turned over the roster to youth. And the team ended last season with improved play. Who do you think gets more points next season, Ottawa or LA?

It's also easier as an owner/GM to jettison those vets and gut your team when those vets did zilch for your franchise. Kings traded their vets and kept the last four -- arguably the four most important franchise players who got you TWO stanley cups. But the Sens wouldn't know anything about that...would they.

 

[DoktorJeep]

How many of those vets are left? Kopitar, Brown, Doughty and Quick? They’ve dealt all the ones with value, and retained the core veterans who came up internally, and Kopitar yet again led the team in scoring, Brown led the team in goals, Doughty led the blueline in every category, and Quick actually performed better than Petersen down the stretch.

They’re not going to trade every veteran, but they certainly moved all the ones who had any value. The team would somehow be even more lost without those vets. Just read Trent Yawney’s comments on Drew’s importance for example.

It also is no easy task to move some of those contracts, and in the next two summers, we’ll see Brown then Quick become UFAs. Kopitar has three years left, and Drew has the longest term remaining at six years, and these contracts aren’t preventing the team from getting better.

Now we wait on the new core to step in and take over. They eased in some of those players last season, but it’s unreasonable to expect a lineup of 20 rookies and inexperienced players to turn these Kings into a playoff team. On the plus side of the struggles is that the team has been able to stockpile multiple assets, which they desperately needed.

The off-season hasn’t even kicked off yet. Do any of you really believe that the roster we saw in the last game of season will be the same as the one that takes the ice in October? I don’t.

What's left are the team's #1 center, winger and defenseman who are being left in to age out of their contracts, if not positions. My belief is that as long as the legacy vets are here, all prospects are inherently blocked in terms of taking over the leadership. I disagree with the idea that prospects have to earn a job on a cellar dweller. Especially if that cellar dweller has two of the highest paid players in the entire league.

It creates a poor environment in the club. Prospects know they aren't counted on and at the same time see the guys driving Ferrari's getting beat all over the ice during games. I don't think Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Quick, et. al. are going to teach the kids anything. That line of thought is lip service to a feel good notion, but when you look at the results, they don't support that when you look for production. Playing Mikey Anderson for 800 minutes next to Drew Doughty just teaches him to play things safe and not cause issues for his partner who only cares about making the next Team Canada roster.

I think if you put talented kids in their early 20's into prominent roles they can find ways to improve as individuals and raise the play of the team over time. Surround them with vets who know they are second fiddles and a patient coach who can teach. And Kings fans should know this more than any other fan base. They saw it first hand a decade ago.

This approach of the Kings is trying to have their cake and eat it too. Keep the vets as long as possible. Keep the kids insulated from any responsibility. This type of plan only does one thing well, protect management from true accountability. So yes, I think we will mostly see the same roster. Especially when it comes to the players who get the most ice time and lead this team to losses.

Not again with the Senators jock riding on this board… Their owner doesnt like to spend so he got rid of expensive players. Free agents dont want to sign there. And their locker room had issues between players and families. They are where they are because they had no other choice. Not because they have a genius gm with a great vision.

So which team gets more points next year, LA or the Sens? Because this year, the Sens has a slightly higher points percentage, with a bunch of kids and no salary.

I think it's pathetic that a major market like LA with all the resources in the world ended up worse than the team from a foreign backwater with terrible ownership. I didn't point at Ott. to praise their GM.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

https://thehockeywriters.com/kings-ben-bishop-trades-revisited/

An old article but still good summation. I forgot how well Budaj did that year after Quick went down. Should have let him stay. The deal made no sense unless DL had ideas to resign Bishop before he was fired. I think it was a terrible trade. One of DLs worst with hindsight.

Quick suffered a serious injury, trade made total sense. Who would you rather have Bishop or Budaj in the playoffs? Quick was a total question mark for the stretch.

In fact since that trade, Bishop has posted stellar numbers compared to Quick. My theory was that DL was going to move on from Quick. There was too many similarities with Mike Richter where he faded when his athleticism dwindled.

 

[DoktorJeep]

It's also easier as an owner/GM to jettison those vets and gut your team when those vets did zilch for your franchise. Kings traded their vets and kept the last four -- arguably the four most important franchise players who got you TWO stanley cups. But the Sens wouldn't know anything about that...would they.

I root for the team, not the players. Players are great as long as the team is winning. If the team isn't winning, then thank you for your service but it's time to find new blood.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Doughty was 4th in Norris voting.

 

[KINGS17]

Quick suffered a serious injury, trade made total sense. Who would you rather have Bishop or Budaj in the playoffs? Quick was a total question mark for the stretch.

In fact since that trade, Bishop has posted stellar numbers compared to Quick. My theory was that DL was going to move on from Quick. There was too many similarities with Mike Richter where he faded when his athleticism dwindled.

I think you are making a pretty good assumption regarding moving on from Quick.

 

[redcard]

Doughty was 4th in Norris voting.

Somehow still 37th on Team Canada's depth chart

 

[Reclamation Project]

Mark Stone should have won the Selke. But he's a west coast player, a winger, and it's not about the outright best player but more about who is "due".

Doughty was excellent last season but I don't see one team that would trade for him and that contract. Maybe if the Kings retained, but that is a monster deal. Let's just hope he continues that pace and stays healthy.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

I think you are making a pretty good assumption regarding moving on from Quick.

Its a theory of mine, but again I’ve said it repeatedly for years now that Quick’s career is very much like Mike Richter of the New York Rangers, it’s uncanny.

You could say Quick is better but the point is they both relied heavily on their athleticism and once they slow down, they won’t be effective anymore and become injury prone.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Sens GM is no genius, but he made tough decisions to jettison overpaid, under performing vets. He hired a young coach and turned over the roster to youth. And the team ended last season with improved play. Who do you think gets more points next season, Ottawa or LA?

I must have missed the Senators multiple Cups, can you help me find them?

They jettisoned vets because the owner is famously f***ing cheap.

 

[Herby]

I just find it funny how there are certain fans who need to have their hands held and be given bullet points in order to grasp what the team is attempting to do, as if it isn’t obvious they’re rebuilding and buying time until the young players can take on bigger roles.

Did you guys fail to see that Mikey Anderson and Tobias Bjornfot took on pivotal roles, or the ice time and responsibilities Gabe Vilardi earned? You guys whining about the lack of a plan need this to be explained to you?

They’re going to have their ups and downs with such a young and inexperienced squad, and the team also has a better frame of mind of what they have to work with when the prospects are worked into the lineup.

What else needs to be explained to you guys who fail to comprehend what’s happening? I thought you guys have been around long enough to figure this out yourselves, but I guess not.

I want to know who they are modeling this rebuild after?

Who is the #1 d-man of the next era?

Who is the #1 goalie of the next era?

Who are the projected star forwards other than QB?

Is there any contingency plan if QB is say, a Ryan Johanssen instead of an Alexander Barkov? Os is the rebuild dead?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I want to know who they are modeling this rebuild after?

Who is the #1 d-man of the next era?

Who is the #1 goalie of the next era?

Who are the projected star forwards other than QB?

Is there any contingency plan if QB is say, a Ryan Johanssen instead of an Alexander Barkov? Os is the rebuild dead?

Is there a perfect plan that solves all of that? Who have they missed out on drafting who could accomplish all of that?

These are positions that will take a long time to replace. Look at Colorado, they didn’t have anyone take over for Sakic, Forsberg, Roy, Blake, etc., and struggled for the longest time until they rebuilt themselves, and that rebuild took quite some time.

MacKinnon also wasn’t the player he is today in his first four years in the NHL. With the exception of Tampa Bay, look at where all of the recent Cup champs are now: St. Louis, Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA, Boston. How many of those teams have prospects ready to succeed their current stars?

 

[Herby]

I must have missed the Senators multiple Cups, can you help me find them?
.

He didn't say that Ottawa had won any cups, just that they rebuilt in a more traditional and proven way than Rob Blake has done with his attempted rebuild with two $10m a year players.

If we all agree it's harder to get top-6 guys and top 4 d-man they are kind of on their way. Stutzle (19), Tkachuk (21), Norris (22), Chabot (24), Batherson (23). Even Pinto (20) looked pretty impressive jumping straight in from NoDak and should be a lock to make their roster next fall.

If we are playing the fill in the box game, they have many of their important boxes filled with NHL proven players, and largely on the back of trading an expensive veteran who wasn't going to be a useful asset the next time they were going to contend.

 

[Steve Zissou]

After his season this year kinda thought this was implied...

 

[KINGS17]

Just got back from checking on a home I am having renovated, checked the score, and man Tampa must have come out guns ablazing.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I must have missed the Senators multiple Cups, can you help me find them?

They jettisoned vets because the owner is famously f***ing cheap.

They traded Duschene, Stone and EK after bottoming out when expecting to build off a deep run. The owner being cheap helped them by preventing the resigning of two players who ended up being albatross contracts.

Since 2015, the Sens are 13-12 in the playoffs and the Kings are 1-8. Don’t get me wrong, both teams suck. But one team is following a traditional rebuild and has a modicum of results to show for it.

The other team has shown worst results in the most recent season. And has more questions in the offseason. The Sens are looking for quality depth players to help their kids make progress. The Kings are looking for difference maker to help make the playoffs. Which team is actually rebuilding? Which one is paying lip service to the idea because the best players expect to win?

The majority of us agree that the path forward depends on the prospects. It’s unfortunate that sentiment towards legacy players is coloring the difficult decisions to be made.

 

[BigKing]

That was some world class acting by the Lightning player there. Looked like LeBron. Still got Barzal a game misconduct though. Joke store league.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Now playing on the record player:

'Shades of Mark Scheifele' by Matt Barzel.

 

[Herby]

Tampa had some nerve going for 2 and not just kicking the extra-point.

Now playing on the record player:

'Shades of Mark Scheifele' by Matt Barzel.

"Atleast get your money's worth kid" - Jonathan Marchessault

 

[Schmooley]

Now playing on the record player:

'Shades of Mark Scheifele' by Matt Barzel.

Dumb play but didnt Lightning get a 2 minute penalty for the same thing?

 

[Reclamation Project]

"imagine the road rage on Long Island right now"