Around the League Thread | November Rain

[vadim sharifijanov]

i don’t think there was a scenario where you couldn’t bring back one of zad or myers. that’s the personality hire contract, and this team needed one.

in the end, they opted for the older and much cheaper dad guy over the younger, more expensive big brother who makes you play bigger knowing he’s behind you. term is a function of age, obviously, but giving zadorov five years isn’t such a big deal considering the projected cap rises over the last 2/5 of the contract. so really, it’s just the issue of paying an extra $3m over the next three years for your #5 dman who you probably will have to overplay as a top four.

anyway, i think it was a mistake. if you had to have one of the two, and again i think management knew they absolutely had to have one of those two guys returning, i would have preferred to come out of training camp with:

hughes hronek
zadorov friedman (assuming he is never sent down and therefore never got hurt)
soucy juulsen

and then post-poolman trade we would have lucked back-assward into

hughes hronek
zadorov brannstrom
soucy friedman
juulsen

even with zaddy, a smaller d corps than would be ideal, but there’s a whole season for allvin to manoeuvre, and with no myers, forbort, and desharnais, that’s $500k of extra cap, and assuming zad was actually wanting to come back would have taken, say, $5.5m, that’s $1m in extra cap that could well by the deadline into some real room.

to make a gillis-era comparison, this to me feels like cheaping out at the 2010 deadline to bring in AHLberts as the willie mitchell replacement, with seidenberg (whom ehrhoff specifically requested after the olympics) on the table if he’d acted quickly and decisively enough. the cheaper option not only costs you because he’s not as good as the expensive option, but in both cases are so bad they cost you extra by being net negatives in the role they have to play.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

i don’t think there was a scenario where you couldn’t bring back one of zad or myers. that’s the personality hire contract, and this team needed one.

in the end, they opted for the older and much cheaper dad guy over the younger, more expensive big brother who makes you play bigger knowing he’s behind you. term is a function of age, obviously, but giving zadorov five years isn’t such a big deal considering the projected cap rises over the last 2/5 of the contract. so really, it’s just the issue of paying an extra $3m over the next three years for your #5 dman who you probably will have to overplay as a top four.

anyway, i think it was a mistake. if you had to have one of the two, and again i think management knew they absolutely had to have one of those two guys returning, i would have preferred to come out of training camp with:

hughes hronek
zadorov friedman (assuming he is never sent down and therefore never got hurt)
soucy juulsen

and then post-poolman trade we would have lucked back-assward into

hughes hronek
zadorov brannstrom
soucy friedman
juulsen

even with zaddy, a smaller d corps than would be ideal, but there’s a whole season for allvin to manoeuvre, and with no myers, forbort, and desharnais, that’s $500k of extra cap, and assuming zad was actually wanting to come back would have taken, say, $5.5m, that’s $1m in extra cap that could well by the deadline into some real room.

to make a gillis-era comparison, this to me feels like cheaping out at the 2010 deadline to bring in AHLberts as the willie mitchell replacement, with seidenberg (whom ehrhoff specifically requested after the olympics) on the table if he’d acted quickly and decisively enough. the cheaper option not only costs you because he’s not as good as the expensive option, but in both cases are so bad they cost you extra by being net negatives in the role they have to play.

I'm assuming the factor tilting to Myers is that he is a natural RHD that plays the right side. After playing solidly for most of the year, the Soucy/Myers pairing are expected to continue as a viable 2nd pairing. While Zad can play the right side, they are probably looking at him as mainly a LSD, and the left side will be solid with Hughes/Z/Soucy, but the right side would be horrific with Hronek/Friedman/Juulsen to start. You are putting a lot of pressure and minutes on Hronek in that scenario.

I don't necessarily agree with the decision, but I'm guessing that is the rationale. I would like to bring Z back at roughly $5m, but I wouldn't go into the season with Friedman and Juulsen playing regular minutes, that's for sure. They had no way of predicting Brannstrom falling into their lap, and he would be as good as he has shown so far.

 

[Jyrki]

I'm assuming the factor tilting to Myers is that he is a natural RHD that plays the right side. After playing solidly for most of the year, the Soucy/Myers pairing are expected to continue as a viable 2nd pairing. While Zad can play the right side, they are probably looking at him as mainly a LSD, and the left side will be solid with Hughes/Z/Soucy, but the right side would be horrific with Hronek/Friedman/Juulsen to start. You are putting a lot of pressure and minutes on Hronek in that scenario.

I don't necessarily agree with the decision, but I'm guessing that is the rationale. I would like to bring Z back at roughly $5m, but I wouldn't go into the season with Friedman and Juulsen playing regular minutes, that's for sure. They had no way of predicting Brannstrom falling into their lap, and he would be as good as he has shown so far.

Also, as much as we have enjoyed shitting on Myers for over half a decade, he's generally been deployed in all sorts of situations and matchups. Now that Z has to hit the ice to put out fires instead of being sheltered from the worst, he's not having a good time either.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Fraser Minten first nhl goal & his reaction is way too good

 

[vancityluongo]

Also, as much as we have enjoyed shitting on Myers for over half a decade, he's generally been deployed in all sorts of situations and matchups. Now that Z has to hit the ice to put out fires instead of being sheltered from the worst, he's not having a good time either.

exactly

i'm not utterly convinced that zadorov isn't just myers but with a squarer jaw and a growl

i get the analogy but he is nowhere near the defenseman seidenberg was

 

[quat]

Having a bit of a chuckle listening to the Vegas announcers surprised when their guy turns into the boards at the last second doesn't draw a boarding call, and yet are all fine with Whitecloud putting his shoulder into Knies head while jumping into the hit.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i am starting to think zadorov/lindholm is our kharmic payback to boston for eriksson. our core made them look better than they were and so boston thought they were ideal for a retool.

 

[DFAC]

I am honestly cooked….. I just realized the Vegas helmet logo is the letter “V”….

 

[Nuckles]

I didn't know this was possible

Dimitri Filipovic (@dimfilipovic.bsky.social)

The Predators just got a penalty for starting the game with the wrong lineup lmao

bsky.app

https://x.com/i/web/status/1859438161874547009

 

[StreetHawk]

I recall years ago, under Quinn when the Canucks had Jimmy Carson, either they wrote his name down wrong or with a wrong number that he was forced to leave and thus the Canucks played with 1 man short on the bench.

 

[valkynax]

I didn't know this was possible

Dimitri Filipovic (@dimfilipovic.bsky.social)

The Predators just got a penalty for starting the game with the wrong lineup lmao

bsky.app

https://x.com/i/web/status/1859438161874547009

Don't forget, back then they thought doing THIS was somehow a good idea:

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

I am honestly cooked….. I just realized the Vegas helmet logo is the letter “V”….

I went like ten years without noticing the animal head in Minnesota's logo

 

[MS]

I recall years ago, under Quinn when the Canucks had Jimmy Carson, either they wrote his name down wrong or with a wrong number that he was forced to leave and thus the Canucks played with 1 man short on the bench.

I almost made a post about this but I couldn’t remember the player. I was thinking Dixon Ward or Adrian Plavsic but Carson sounds right.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Don't forget, back then they thought doing THIS was somehow a good idea:

 

[valkynax]

I went like ten years without noticing the animal head in Minnesota's logo

I STILL have no goddamn clue what the f*** the Anaheim Ducks logo was.

The new one looks so so so so so much better. The new jersey color scheme also looks light years improved.

 

[HelloCookie]

Don't forget, back then they thought doing THIS was somehow a good idea:

Way of the road buddy

 

[HelloCookie]

I STILL have no goddamn clue what the f*** the Anaheim Ducks logo was.

The new one looks so so so so so much better. The new jersey color scheme also looks light years improved.

It was a webbed foot. As a kid i thought the coyotes' kachina logo was a one eyed torso-head cyclops, and i thought people in Quebec live in igloos because the logo looked like one

 

[valkynax]

It was a webbed foot. As a kid i thought the coyotes' kachina logo was a one eyed torso-head cyclops, and i thought people in Quebec live in igloos because the logo looked like one

Ducks old logo - webbed foot, yeah that will strike FEAR into your enemies. This shit was marinated as a drunken snack for Chinese people.

Coyotes old logo - looked like a homeless guy who had one too many Guatemala insanity pepper.

Nordiques old logo - wait you mean to tell me the thing is NOT an igloo??? It's shaped like one and colored like, not to mentioned themed like one too.

 

[HelloCookie]

Ducks old logo - webbed foot, yeah that will strike FEAR into your enemies. This shit was marinated as a drunken snack for Chinese people.

Coyotes old logo - looked like a homeless guy who had one too many Guatemala insanity pepper.

Nordiques old logo - wait you mean to tell me the thing is NOT an igloo??? It's shaped like one and colored like, not to mentioned themed like one too.

Yeah the webbed foot logo was corporate mess by new owners. I like the coyotes logo but i'm a sucker for the art style. And yes when i was like six years old i thought because of the igloo logo people there lived in igloos

 

[bossram]

Also, as much as we have enjoyed shitting on Myers for over half a decade, he's generally been deployed in all sorts of situations and matchups. Now that Z has to hit the ice to put out fires instead of being sheltered from the worst, he's not having a good time either.

This was why I didn't want Zadorov re-signed either. He's never actually played a tough leverage role for any real stretch of time. Boston tried it with McAvoy and immediately pulled the plug because it didn't go well.

Z had a great 10 or 11 game stretch in the playoffs. That is the entirety of the evidence that he can be a real top-four defenseman.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

This was why I didn't want Zadorov re-signed either. He's never actually played a tough leverage role for any real stretch of time. Boston tried it with McAvoy and immediately pulled the plug because it didn't go well.

Z had a great 10 or 11 game stretch in the playoffs. That is the entirety of the evidence that he can be a real top-four defenseman.

Would love it if those who were lamenting signing Petey and saying we would be better keeping Zadorov and Lindholm would remember this moment and show a little humility.

As you said, and I felt at the time as well, those contracts were just ticking time bombs with a low chance of paying off.

I would have given Zadorov 4.5 for 4 years or so, and maybe given Lindholm 6 million x 5. I say this knowing, and knowing at the time, that those weren't going to be competitive unless those players prioritized something over money, and I don't blame them for chasing the respective bags at this point in their careers.

Lindholm was never fast, but he's looked like he's losing foot speed for 3 years. He's also never been a true number 1 center. He was a fantastic top 6 center who could fill the cracks of elite wingers, like a (stylistically different) Brendan Morrison.

And Zadorov, he was a fantastic acquisition but why would you bet on a good 11 games over a decade of being occasionally a competent #4 when deployed carefully, but often a bottom pair D (occasionally a brutal one)?

The fit here was good, and he might be doing better here. But no thank you on that contract.

-
Making a strange prediction. I think if things continue to go poorly there's a greater than zero chance that Boston ends up retaining a million and dealing him back to us within the next year and a half. No intel, just a feeling it's possible.

 

[bossram]

Would love it if those who were lamenting signing Petey and saying we would be better keeping Zadorov and Lindholm would remember this moment and show a little humility.

As you said, and I felt at the time as well, those contracts were just ticking time bombs with a low chance of paying off.

I would have given Zadorov 4.5 for 4 years or so, and maybe given Lindholm 6 million x 5. I say this knowing, and knowing at the time, that those weren't going to be competitive unless those players prioritized something over money, and I don't blame them for chasing the respective bags at this point in their careers.

Lindholm was never fast, but he's looked like he's losing foot speed for 3 years. He's also never been a true number 1 center. He was a fantastic top 6 center who could fill the cracks of elite wingers, like a (stylistically different) Brendan Morrison.

And Zadorov, he was a fantastic acquisition but why would you bet on a good 11 games over a decade of being occasionally a competent #4 when deployed carefully, but often a bottom pair D (occasionally a brutal one)?

The fit here was good, and he might be doing better here. But no thank you on that contract.

-
Making a strange prediction. I think if things continue to go poorly there's a greater than zero chance that Boston ends up retaining a million and dealing him back to us within the next year and a half. No intel, just a feeling it's possible.

I thought both were excellent rental deals by Allvin that filled needs for the team. Allvin then made the correct decision to not re-sign them, identifying that it was very unlikely they could live up to the deals.

Z at least I think would have had a chance of not being a "bad" contract. Lindholm's deal was an outright disaster and anyone even having an inkling of a thought that trading Petey and re-signing Lindholm as a "replacement" was a good idea...just laughable. My absolute ceiling on bringing back Lindholm was 4 x $5M and even then, I didn't really like that. My ceiling for Z was 4 x $4M, maybe slightly higher for cap inflation.

If BOS wants to send Z back at around $3.75M...I'm down for that!

 

[MS]

The mistake on Zadorov was not extending him during the regular season last year when he wanted to re-up at $4 million or so.

Lindholm I didn't want to touch with a 10-foot pole. This was a player that was on total cruise control the past two seasons in Calgary and with us and not competing and not getting results. Then he checked in and competed in the playoffs (check out his hit totals relative to the regular season, it's absolutely insane) and of course got results when that happened, but the regression back to the player we saw in the last regular season was very predictable.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1859610897880113650

Seems a bit random...

 

[Wayward Son]

I didn't realize Minnesota was 12-3-3. What a start for them.