Around The League Thread | Let the Games Begin

[Bojack Horvatman]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844006238885187802

Seems a bit....much.

Playing For Ottawa tax. Ottawa is desperate for goaltending. They aren’t going to get a better goaltender playing there and Ullmark’s camp probably knows it. Plus there should have to be at least a million dollar a year surcharge for having to play in front of a Travis Green team

 

[VanillaCoke]

Overdrive gonna be hillarious today over this

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844006238885187802

Seems a bit....much.

I like this for Ottawa more than Swayman deal for Boston, especially once the sens get a real coaching staff.

 

[StreetHawk]

Overdrive gonna be hillarious today over this


I like this for Ottawa more than Swayman deal for Boston, especially once the sens get a real coaching staff.

Sens do have that 6'7 goalie prospect form 2019 don't they?
Too much up and down between NHL and AHL for him in his 3 years in North America pro.
22-23 was a bad year for him at both levels. Sub 0.9 save percentage and GGA over 3.3.

Bounced back with a good season last year in the A with a 0.916 and 2.45. But only 32 games. Needs to shoulder a 45 game load this season in the A and repeat those numbers.

Then he can push for the backup role in 25-26.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Overdrive gonna be hillarious today over this


I like this for Ottawa more than Swayman deal for Boston, especially once the sens get a real coaching staff.

 

[tantalum]

Does he need to be mentioned in every thread? I hate the er with every fiber of my being. But it's cathartic to me to mention his name as little as possible. Not telling you you how to do business but for me the less I hear about that fat prick, the better. Sideshow Elmer.

Are you new to canuck fandom?



And well the canucks have (necessary) dead cap for many years still because of that move. The hard feelings are not going to go away. It is the Benning Neely trade that has a long lasting effect on the organization.

 

[StreetHawk]

no surprise JB made a massive roll of the dice move. Under big time pressure.
But it fell on FA to decide to keep him or refresh that position since the coaching staff was also without contracts. So it was a scenario where the team could have gotten a reboot.
New eyes would have been given the year to wash out the $12 mill in bad contract in 21/22.

But no. FA brought the gang back. So really more on him than JB. Knew a risky move was coming when FA kept him.

 

[supercanuck]

I know there was "generational" talk with Bedard, but if his career turns out to be "Patrick Kane", I don't think Hawks fan would be really sad about that (3 Cups, Art Ross, Hart, Conn Smythe, Lindsay, Calder).

 

[arttk]

December 5th, 2024. We remember liberation.

should be a national holiday, Benning liberation day

 

[MS]

This was a problem even in junior. I remember watching him at the WJC and thinking this dude is playing pond hockey. He’s a Patrick Kane.

His skillset is mixed in with guys like Kane/Panarin/Kucherov. And those are great players. But none of them play C because they are small and play pond hockey and would get defensively exposed. Chicago tried with Kane once and it was a disaster.

When you watch Bedard in the defensive zone there are a few plays every game where even Kuzmenko would be like LOL WTF man. He'll obviously get better over the next few years but even huge improvements are still going to leave him below-average. And you can't fix his size and inability to ever win a puck/board battle.

The thing with Crosby/McDavid/Matthews is that those guys, in addition to being insane offensive talents, are all good-sized, strong dudes (Crosby is a tank even if his measurements don't look huge) and all have a massive competitive streak and some grit and Crosby/Matthews were actually really good defensive players in the NHL even at 19 or 20. McDavid could have been one if he wanted to but was always cheating for offense. Bedard is just something else entirely and is basically a Zegras off the puck.

 

[StreetHawk]

I know there was "generational" talk with Bedard, but if his career turns out to be "Patrick Kane", I don't think Hawks fan would be really sad about that (3 Cups, Art Ross, Hart, Conn Smythe, Lindsay, Calder).

Kane was a key part of those cups, but so were Keith, Seabrook, Toews, Hossa, etc. So, still a long ways to go to surround Bedard. The rest of the individual awards, he has a shot of winning for sure.

End of the day, Bedard is still a sub 5'10 C, though he looked physically strong for his size at the combine. Bedard is going to have to figure out how to play better Defence at his size. He'll never be a Selke candidate like Datsyuk or Bergeron. And doesn't need to be.

 

[timw33]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844030518570127379

I'll be honest, I don't know what the Kraken are doing here. $10.9MM locked up on one horrible goalie, and a goalie with very very small sample size of good play.

 

[MS]

I know there was "generational" talk with Bedard, but if his career turns out to be "Patrick Kane", I don't think Hawks fan would be really sad about that (3 Cups, Art Ross, Hart, Conn Smythe, Lindsay, Calder).

Probably not, although those teams were a lot more than Kane.

My question would be how many Cups the Blackhawks would have won if they would have played Kane 20 minutes/game at C for his entire tenure there instead of hiding him on the wing with responsible linemates to maximize his skillset.

 

[Josepho]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844030518570127379

I'll be honest, I don't know what the Kraken are doing here. $10.9MM locked up on one horrible goalie, and a goalie with very very small sample size of good play.

Seattle (aside from maybe Nashville) has easily been the most irresponsible team with their money in the past few years and I have a tough time seeing them as anything other than Minnesota 2.0.

 

[MS]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844030518570127379

I'll be honest, I don't know what the Kraken are doing here. $10.9MM locked up on one horrible goalie, and a goalie with very very small sample size of good play.

I'm endlessly confused by teams rushing to sign players a year early based on small sample sizes of success where they don't even really get a discount for doing so.

Daccord basically had a 2 month crazy hot streak in December-January of last year and has been a fringe backup for the rest of his career. He'll be 29 next summer. If he drops a .910 this year, was he really signing for that much more than this? And is the reward there justifiable relative to the risk he regresses to a .898 guy this year and you've wasted $20 million?

 

[JT Milker]

His skillset is mixed in with guys like Kane/Panarin/Kucherov. And those are great players. But none of them play C because they are small and play pond hockey and would get defensively exposed. Chicago tried with Kane once and it was a disaster.

When you watch Bedard in the defensive zone there are a few plays every game where even Kuzmenko would be like LOL WTF man. He'll obviously get better over the next few years but even huge improvements are still going to leave him below-average. And you can't fix his size and inability to ever win a puck/board battle.

The thing with Crosby/McDavid/Matthews is that those guys, in addition to being insane offensive talents, are all good-sized, strong dudes (Crosby is a tank even if his measurements don't look huge) and all have a massive competitive streak and some grit and Crosby/Matthews were actually really good defensive players in the NHL even at 19 or 20. McDavid could have been one if he wanted to but was always cheating for offense. Bedard is just something else entirely and is basically a Zegras off the puck.

And McDavid arguably doesn’t need to be because he’s the most talented offensive player in NHL history. Bedard is very good offensively but he’s not as dominant.

 

[timw33]

I'm endlessly confused by teams rushing to sign players a year early based on small sample sizes of success where they don't even really get a discount for doing so.

Daccord basically had a 2 month crazy hot streak in December-January of last year and has been a fringe backup for the rest of his career. He'll be 29 next summer. If he drops a .910 this year, was he really signing for that much more than this? And is the reward there justifiable relative to the risk he regresses to a .898 guy this year and you've wasted $20 million?

One of the big advantages Seattle had was that their cap structure was relatively clean and open long term aside from Grubauer. After their offseason moves, they've ceded that advantage to give 5-7 year contracts to multiple 30 year olds and a goalie with 69 NHL games under his belt.

 

[StreetHawk]

I'm endlessly confused by teams rushing to sign players a year early based on small sample sizes of success where they don't even really get a discount for doing so.

Daccord basically had a 2 month crazy hot streak in December-January of last year and has been a fringe backup for the rest of his career. He'll be 29 next summer. If he drops a .910 this year, was he really signing for that much more than this? And is the reward there justifiable relative to the risk he regresses to a .898 guy this year and you've wasted $20 million?

I agree. I don't think other clubs that signed Power, Sanderson, and even Faber really shifted much of the risk from the team to the player when those guys got $8 mill per. Seider put in the full 3 years of his elc and got just slightly more per year.

I doubt either Power/Sanderson get much different had their clubs signed them this past summer.

Especially with goalies who haven't shown consistency over their career.

 

[MS]

One of the big advantages Seattle had was that their cap structure was relatively clean and open long term aside from Grubauer. After their offseason moves, they've ceded that advantage to give 5-7 year contracts to multiple 30 year olds and a goalie with 69 NHL games under his belt.

I have no idea what they're doing. It's just a recipe for mediocrity.

I agree. I don't think other clubs that signed Power, Sanderson, and even Faber really shifted much of the risk from the team to the player when those guys got $8 mill per. Seider put in the full 3 years of his elc and got just slightly more per year.

I doubt either Power/Sanderson get much different had their clubs signed them this past summer.

Especially with goalies who haven't shown consistency over their career.

I just don't get it.

To me, the whole point of committing to a guy early based on a small sample size should be that you get a big discount if that small sample size turns out to be legit sustainable play. Alex Burrows as an example.

But instead we see these deals where the player is getting signed a year early, the team is assuming all the risk ... and they're getting zero discount if the player sustains their play and only small discount if the player absolutely explodes, while they might waste $millions in cap space if the player has a regression.

And I guess I can sort of get it as a 'statement' with a young player that you believe in him, although something like the Guenther deal is still nuts to me. Even if Guenther scores 30-35 goals this year ... he wasn't going to be getting more than that deal next summer.

But where I really don't get it is with middling players like this. What are you actually gaining here? How do the odds here make sense?

 

[Jerry the great]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844030518570127379

I'll be honest, I don't know what the Kraken are doing here. $10.9MM locked up on one horrible goalie, and a goalie with very very small sample size of good play.

It's kind of funny though. Grubauer had 6 season of consistently good numbers and growing responsibility. Then he signed a long term deal for starter $$ and his numbers fell off a cliff. Daccord has one NHL season of good numbers and two decent AHL seasons (though wasn't a workhorse there) so maybe he'll be an all-star. WTF knows. I think it's absolutely fair to question their process though....seems panicky to me.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I'm endlessly confused by teams rushing to sign players a year early based on small sample sizes of success where they don't even really get a discount for doing so.

Daccord basically had a 2 month crazy hot streak in December-January of last year and has been a fringe backup for the rest of his career. He'll be 29 next summer. If he drops a .910 this year, was he really signing for that much more than this? And is the reward there justifiable relative to the risk he regresses to a .898 guy this year and you've wasted $20 million?

Even if he was more proven, I am not a fan of giving contracts with term to 32-15 ranked starters when they are UFA age. That’s how you get Campbell, Korpisalo, Grubauer, Kuemper type contracts on your books. He probably has a 1% of being positive value.

 

[Ernie]

Not that I necessarily agree with it, but I'll point out that Demko got this same contract 3 years ago with a similar record. This is the kind of money an average starter makes. Worthwhile to remember that SV% has dropped about 10% over the past few seasons, and the .916 he put up last season is tied for 3rd amongst all goalies who played at least 41 games last season.

Goalies are voodoo and while the Demko contract has worked out, it could have easily been another Benning screwup.

It's going to be interesting to see what this management group does with Demko when his contract expires. If he's healthy and maintains his numbers he's priced himself in the $8-10m range.

 

[StreetHawk]

term more than AAV concerns me with Demko with his injury history.
He turns 29 later this year. Even 5/6 years will take him to 35/36. His deal is up after 25/26 season. He’d be like 30.5 in July 2026.

If you go 7/8 he goes to 37/38.

 

[Nucker101]

Would you guys shut up about Guenther? It's like an ex talking about the one that got away. It's over - move on. You all say the exact same thing too 'oh gee Guenther would look great here'.

Bad contract for Ullmark. I think he's an okay goalie but was perfectly supported and insulated in Boston. If Green doesn't fix the cultural rot the Sens are dealing with, Ullmark is going to have the same problems Korpisalo had.

I love Guenther

 

[Jerry the great]

I have no idea what they're doing. It's just a recipe for mediocrity.



I just don't get it.

To me, the whole point of committing to a guy early based on a small sample size should be that you get a big discount if that small sample size turns out to be legit sustainable play. Alex Burrows as an example.

But instead we see these deals where the player is getting signed a year early, the team is assuming all the risk ... and they're getting zero discount if the player sustains their play and only small discount if the player absolutely explodes, while they might waste $millions in cap space if the player has a regression.

And I guess I can sort of get it as a 'statement' with a young player that you believe in him, although something like the Guenther deal is still nuts to me. Even if Guenther scores 30-35 goals this year ... he wasn't going to be getting more than that deal next summer.

But where I really don't get it is with middling players like this. What are you actually gaining here? How do the odds here make sense?

In the case of Burrows, we signed that deal after a really solid 2 year stretch, when he was already an extremely valuable defensive player and one of the best penalty killers in the game......and we still got his ink on an extremely team friendly contract.

I love Guenther

who?

 

[strattonius]

Ron Francis is a lousy GM.

Goalies are largely a product of their environment. I get there are an elite collection of goalies that could put up decent numbers regardless of their sutuation; but for the mushy middle it's all a giant pit of interchangeable goalies that are either successful or kit up depending on the defense and system they are playing for.

I think Ullmark is a decent goalie but he was also well insulated in Boston and played tandem minutes with Swayman. What is going to happen when he's relied on to put up 60+ starts on a team that's been struggling in every zone for the last 5+ years. He probably won't loo lk much better than Korpisalo, who was also left to dry.

And of course you have Daccord now who is hugely unproven. What a way to not learn from past mistakes on the Grubauer deal.