Around The League Thread | Let the Games Begin

[MS]

He's been a pure PP merchant for a while. ES anchor like you said. Stamkos actively makes the Preds 2nd line worse.

Wonder how long until they realize it.

He scored at basically the same ES rate last year as Dakota Joshua despite playing mostly with 144-point Nikita Kucherov as a linemate.

They might realize he's shit already but he's signed for 4 more years so they have to just keep giving him minutes and cross their fingers.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Stamkos has basically been an ES boat anchor for the last two years with a broken motor who doesn't track the play back defensively. But because he played with Kucherov he was still able to fake his way to 80 points based on that and PP utility.

That he got 4 years/$32 million was absolutely insane.

I figured he'd probably put up 25-25-50 with a -20 this year and that might actually end up being generous.

Reminds me when Phil Kessel went from a PPG player next to Crosby/Malkin to only scoring 38 points in 70 games in Arizona and becoming unplayable 5 on 5 (although he was already a becoming a liability 5 on 5 with the Penguins).

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

tampa is attempting an orderly gradual retool replacing core pieces while remaining a contender. not sure any team has done that in the cap era. very few have ever done it.

I was thinking of Boston around 2014-16, but they didn't replace their core. Just had some wins in the mid-late first to retool around their existing core. Best example would probably be Dallas right now phasing out Benn-Seguin to a Robertson-Heiskenen-Hintz-Johnson-Oettinger core.

But yeah tough to do. You need high end, young players in important positions already in the organization. Which very few teams will have if they have been competing for years.

 

[StreetHawk]

I was thinking of Boston around 2014-16, but they didn't replace their core. Just had some wins in the mid-late first to retool around their existing core. Best example would probably be Dallas right now phasing out Benn-Seguin to a Robertson-Heiskenen-Hintz-Johnson-Oettinger core.

But yeah tough to do. You need high end, young players in important positions already in the organization. Which very few teams will have if they have been competing for years.

Point, Cernak, Cirelli, and Hagel were from 2014, 2015, and 2016 drafts. These are the 4 youngest core guys they have and they are 26/27/28 in 2024. Hedman is from 2009, so 33 going on 34 in 2024. Kuch is 31. McDonaugh is 35. Vasi is 30. Guenztal just turned 30.

That is their core group. It's win now age. Though the supporting group outside this core isn't as good as their cup teams.

So, if they don't believe Stamkos gives them much left in the next 2-3 years, best to move on. Personally, not too much into the retire with 1 team mindset. Would have liked to have seen Sid opt to move on, but he's made his choice with Pitt.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

He scored at basically the same ES rate last year as Dakota Joshua despite playing mostly with 144-point Nikita Kucherov as a linemate.

They might realize he's shit already but he's signed for 4 more years so they have to just keep giving him minutes and cross their fingers.

Kucherov should of won the Hart in my opinion. 60 more points than anyone else on the team. I wonder how many points he would of put up if he played with Point instead of Stamkos.

And yeah giving term was a huge mistake the second it was signed. I thought Nashville would turn into what San Jose was a few years eventually. It could be this year though if there other players can't make up for the anchor Stamkos is at ES now though

It's nice to see players like Stamkos play for 1 team but Tampa did the right thing. They still have a few years to compete while Hedman is still playing at a high level. If they were where Pittsburgh and Washington are than maybe you bring him back to finish out his career as a Bolt.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Reminds me when Phil Kessel went from a PPG player next to Crosby/Malkin to only scoring 38 points in 70 games in Arizona and becoming unplayable 5 on 5 (although he was already a becoming a liability 5 on 5 with the Penguins).

while that is true, not all players can be ppg with great players so he was contributing value.

i think stamkos will be fine in the regular season if they can sort out their pp. the whole team is so badly out of synch it is hard to assess him in isolation.

 

[MS]

Reminds me when Phil Kessel went from a PPG player next to Crosby/Malkin to only scoring 38 points in 70 games in Arizona and becoming unplayable 5 on 5 (although he was already a becoming a liability 5 on 5 with the Penguins).

Yeah, exact same general effect.

A guy who lost it as a 5-on-5 player but still put up lots of points due to linemates/PP usage suddenly getting exposed when they move to an average team and need to carry the mail a bit themselves, but can't.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Both Stamkos & Tampa wrecked an ideal situation, Stamkos more so. Nashville too talented to be this bad over the whole season but TB coming out looking better and a younger Guentzel is a no brainer, but could've had both.

(I bet TB to win the division, but also Nashville..)

 

[Nuckles]

North American pro sports is cooked

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847314666185523300

I don't think there's any possible way to put the genie back in the bottle at this point

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Both Stamkos & Tampa wrecked an ideal situation, Stamkos more so. Nashville too talented to be this bad over the whole season but TB coming out looking better and a younger Guentzel is a no brainer, but could've had both.

(I bet TB to win the division, but also Nashville..)

Are they though? Some regression is likely so they aren't going to be a bottom feeder, but their C depth is very bad, arguably one of the worst in the league. ROR is a decent 2 way player that had a really good season last year, but after that you have Novak, Sissons and McCarron. And this is a HEALTHY roster. There is no Point/Kucherov to help out Stamkos nor Eichel to boost up Marchessault here. There PP are almost all shooters with few natural playmakers. Seems like a lot of the same type of players that doesn't really compliment each other on the top 6. I wouldn't be surprise if they miss the playoff this year.

As previously stated, Stamkos isn't an effective 5 on 5 player anymore, and Marchessault wasn't and will not be a line driver. People look at their 40 goals last season and assumed the Preds just added 80 goals, but dig a little deeper and I think they overpaid on 2 declining and one-dimensional wingers. I was shocked that those 2 players went early in hockey pool drafts, I don't see them repeating their scoring in Nashville.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

North American pro sports is cooked

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847314666185523300

I don't think there's any possible way to put the genie back in the bottle at this point

It is so f***ing frustrating. Seems like everyone I know is hooked on parlay's right now. I had to beg my good friend to knock it off because his wagers started increasing.

 

[Jyrki]

North American pro sports is cooked

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847314666185523300

I don't think there's any possible way to put the genie back in the bottle at this point

At this point pirating broadcasts is more ethical than paying for the actual thing.

 

[Quinning]

This drop of the puck brought to you by PlayNow Sports

 

[quat]

Tampa went from Stamkos and Sergechev who make a combined 16.5 million to Guenztel, Moser and McDonagh who make just above 19mil.

Their cup window is solidly slammed shut if they re-sign Stamkos and double down on that Sergechev contract. Love how that franchise operates.

I detest them due to their acumen, success and that Bettman favours their existence.

 

[Coffee]

Hopefully the Penguins get the W here and keep things rolling
Blomqvist is showing promise

Also, Happy birthday @Ugene Magic !!

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Ian Cole Top 4D for Utah and playing really well.

3rd in ice time averaging 21:01 per game.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Are they though? Some regression is likely so they aren't going to be a bottom feeder, but their C depth is very bad, arguably one of the worst in the league. ROR is a decent 2 way player that had a really good season last year, but after that you have Novak, Sissons and McCarron. And this is a HEALTHY roster. There is no Point/Kucherov to help out Stamkos nor Eichel to boost up Marchessault here. There PP are almost all shooters with few natural playmakers. Seems like a lot of the same type of players that doesn't really compliment each other on the top 6. I wouldn't be surprise if they miss the playoff this year.

As previously stated, Stamkos isn't an effective 5 on 5 player anymore, and Marchessault wasn't and will not be a line driver. People look at their 40 goals last season and assumed the Preds just added 80 goals, but dig a little deeper and I think they overpaid on 2 declining and one-dimensional wingers. I was shocked that those 2 players went early in hockey pool drafts, I don't see them repeating their scoring in Nashville.

If that was it then sure, but besides those still very capable players are Forsberg Josi and Saros, and I'm not even a big saros fan. With decent to good depth behind that it should be good enough to make the playoffs, they nearly beat us last year. Could also go bad and they miss but that's true for every team.




Semi related note:
Ppl are getting a little trigger happy, big changes take time to settle in and adjust, we saw it with Lindholm last year too, and we're seeing it now with Desharnais, Forbort, sprong, Heinen etc... These are good players, already playing better than game one, give it another fifteen games and practices and I'm sure this team gonna rake just like last season.

 

[bossram]

North American pro sports is cooked

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847314666185523300

I don't think there's any possible way to put the genie back in the bottle at this point

I mean, there is: Legislation.

But politicians don't really want to touch it, and if they do, the books will be lobbying them 24/7 and throwing buckets of money at them to make sure they can still rip people off.

Obviously I think most people on the forum know I like betting. But how it's been introduced in North America is horrible. Legislation needs to be passed to limit it's promotion:
- No gambling ads between the hours of 7AM/11PM or during any sports broadcast
- No promotion of individual bets or mention of odds during any segment of a sports broadcast
- No promos/freebets for big losers or problem gamblers, to lure them back in
- Automatic deposit freezouts if a bettor's account runs out of funds

...at a minimum.

 

[Nuckles]

I mean, there is: Legislation.

But politicians don't really want to touch it, and if they do, the books will be lobbying them 24/7 and throwing buckets of money at them to make sure they can still rip people off.

Obviously I think most people on the forum know I like betting. But how it's been introduced in North America is horrible. Legislation needs to be passed to limit it's promotion:
- No gambling ads between the hours of 7AM/11PM or during any sports broadcast
- No promotion of individual bets or mention of odds during any segment of a sports broadcast
- No promos/freebets for big losers or problem gamblers, to lure them back in
- Automatic deposit freezouts if a bettor's account runs out of funds

...at a minimum.

I wouldn't hold my breath, because as you said both the gambling companies (making absolute bank) and the pro sports owners (billionaires) have all the funds and influence they need to prevent any meaningful changes that will impact their bottom line.

Society has already normalized incredibly accessible gambling and are okay with it being a part of pro sports. There probably won't be enough push back from the masses until it's done a lot of damage economically, socially, etc.

 

[bossram]

I wouldn't hold my breath, because as you said both the gambling companies (making absolute bank) and the pro sports owners (billionaires) have all the funds and influence they need to prevent any meaningful changes that will impact their bottom line.

Society has already normalized incredibly accessible gambling and are okay with it being a part of pro sports. There probably won't be enough push back from the masses until it's done a lot of damage economically, socially, etc.

I don't think it'll change at all, certainly not in the short-medium term.

But I think some relatively easy changes could be passed via legislation (or via regulation if there were an actually competent regulator) that could help a lot while still allowing sports betting to be legal.

 

[MS]

I don't think it'll change at all, certainly not in the short-medium term.

But I think some relatively easy changes could be passed via legislation (or via regulation if there were an actually competent regulator) that could help a lot while still allowing sports betting to be legal.

It's absolutely insane that elementary school-age kids get blanketed with gambling ads if they want to follow their sports team, and that's the first thing that absolutely needs to be changed.

 

[Quinning]

It's absolutely insane that elementary school-age kids get blanketed with gambling ads if they want to follow their sports team, and that's the first thing that absolutely needs to be changed.

Money rules all, my friend.

 

[MS]

Money rules all, my friend.

It does, but you can't advertise for beer during Paw Patrol or Marlboro smokes during a Canuck game. At some level common sense has to take over.

 

[Coffee]

Money rules all, my friend.

Sure, but in actuality this just oversimplifies the complex issues surrounding gambling ads.
We can't just overlook the impact it has on vulnerable populations.
It's fine to consider both the balance between economic interests and social responsibility, and keep advocating for a healthier balance

 

[timw33]

Ian Cole Top 4D for Utah and playing really well.

3rd in ice time averaging 21:01 per game.

That's until you look under the hood and realize that he's ceding chances, shots, and high dangers at an alarming rate. Go read through the Utah game reports, they are not fans of his and complain about his lack of mobility.