Around the League Thread | Holiday Season!

[sandwichbird2023]

They're one of the worst teams in the league with every important player past his prime and declining and several of them on easily tradable contracts. It's absolutely crazy not to rebuild.

I think the best thing for the franchise is probably selling off some pieces and, ideally, their aging star players too, and begin the rebuild. However, their ownership probably feel they owe it to Sid to continue fighting on as a bubble team for all the success Sid brought to the city.

Like @JianYang said, they are in a similar spot as the Caps where, the current goal isn't to win cup or rebuild, more so to wind down the careers of their franchise players in a (hopefully) competitive environment. The Caps struck gold in Strome, Chychryn, and their goalies, the Pens didn't, thats the difference.

 

[Szechwan]

I think the best thing for the franchise is probably selling off some pieces and, ideally, their aging star players too, and begin the rebuild. However, their ownership probably feel they owe it to Sid to continue fighting on as a bubble team for all the success Sid brought to the city.

Like @JianYang said, they are in a similar spot as the Caps where, the current goal isn't to win cup or rebuild, more so to wind down the careers of their franchise players in a (hopefully) competitive environment. The Caps struck gold in Strome, Chychryn, and their goalies, the Pens didn't, thats the difference.

Pretty much. They are going to look across the road and see the Caps turnaround and double down. They don't really have much of a choice unless Sid decides he wants out.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I think the best thing for the franchise is probably selling off some pieces and, ideally, their aging star players too, and begin the rebuild. However, their ownership probably feel they owe it to Sid to continue fighting on as a bubble team for all the success Sid brought to the city.

Like @JianYang said, they are in a similar spot as the Caps where, the current goal isn't to win cup or rebuild, more so to wind down the careers of their franchise players in a (hopefully) competitive environment. The Caps struck gold in Strome, Chychryn, and their goalies, the Pens didn't, thats the difference.

Pens are too late to successfully retool around Crosby. Washington took the pain, and had a hard retool for a couple years. They sold off Orlov and used some of the assets on Sandin, fell in the standings in the deep 2023 draft, didn't gunk up their cap the last couple years and used it well this season to improve the team.

Meanwhile the Penguins last couple management teams have pretty much done what Benning would have done. Disappointing first round picks they probably liked in junior like Glass and Ty Smith( wasted Marino on), plus spending a first on Erik Karlsson and trading for Jeff Petey.

Washington took a couple years of pain to build assets and cap, and their old core gets another chance. Pittsburgh desperately tried to hold on and have zero chance of rebuilding around Crosby.

 

[StreetHawk]

Wash is getting a strong season from McMichael their 2019 first rounder. Plus a resurgence from Ovy to begin the season and stable goaltending.

That’s why teams and GMs will do retools vs tear downs that this site poster’s want teams to do, whenever they can. Not all will work out like Pitt getting EK. But GM would rather do this than likely not survive a 7 year rebuild which teams like Ana, SJ, Det, Ott, etc who have changed GMs though most were stepped downs by prior GM but unlikely Murray, Wilson, Holland, Bowman, etc would have made it through.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Wash is getting a strong season from McMichael their 2019 first rounder. Plus a resurgence from Ovy to begin the season and stable goaltending.

That’s why teams and GMs will do retools vs tear downs that this site poster’s want teams to do, whenever they can. Not all will work out like Pitt getting EK. But GM would rather do this than likely not survive a 7 year rebuild which teams like Ana, SJ, Det, Ott, etc who have changed GMs though most were stepped downs by prior GM but unlikely Murray, Wilson, Holland, Bowman, etc would have made it through.

What a lot of fans don't want to hear is that hockey is a business first and entertainment second from the management and owner perspective. Us squeezing into the second wild card spot and getting bounced in 5-6 games to Vegas is much better for them over selling assets. You can sell the underdog story, and the average fan cares more about that than Suter netting us a 2nd that may never turn into a meaningful NHL player.

And hey, who says we lose to Vegas if that were to happen?

 

[F A N]

Pens are too late to successfully retool around Crosby. Washington took the pain, and had a hard retool for a couple years. They sold off Orlov and used some of the assets on Sandin, fell in the standings in the deep 2023 draft, didn't gunk up their cap the last couple years and used it well this season to improve the team.

Meanwhile the Penguins last couple management teams have pretty much done what Benning would have done. Disappointing first round picks they probably liked in junior like Glass and Ty Smith( wasted Marino on), plus spending a first on Erik Karlsson and trading for Jeff Petey.

Washington took a couple years of pain to build assets and cap, and their old core gets another chance. Pittsburgh desperately tried to hold on and have zero chance of rebuilding around Crosby.

How has Washington’s “years of pain” led to their old core (i.e. Ovechkin) getting another chance to contend? Did Washington “fell in the standings in the deep 2023 draft” on purpose? Like Colorado ending up with the 3rd overall pick and selling because Joe Sakic got injured is not an intended retool/rebuild move.

I think Washington took steps to retool but I don’t see how those moves have led to Ovechkin and the old core getting another chance. In reality you really are talking about Ovechkin and Carlson when talking about the old core getting another chance. I don’t see the retool moves leading to a young core leading the way and allowing the old core another chance to contend. Which players drafted after the 2019 draft is giving Ovechkin “another chance?”

Ovechkin has been amazing but he can’t continue at this pace. Capitals will miss the playoffs once he’s gone or when he suffers a steep decline.

You mention Benning but the two first round picks he traded were for Miller and Garland who were key contributors to last year’s contending team. He didn’t trade away our first (Boeser) when we made the playoffs in his first year. Benning tried and failed to win but you can’t say he traded first round picks for aging players/rentals.

 

[wetcoast]

What’s crazy is that he’s for the most part stayed healthy since leaving here. It’s amazing how helpful not having to play high minutes for those dogshit Benning teams and blocking all those shots does for one’s health. Set I’ll playing great hockey at 35. f*** you Jim.

And yeah Tanev on the Leafs just feels dirty.

He has played the same way after he left we just had bad luck with his health here.

 

[StreetHawk]

He has played the same way after he left we just had bad luck with his health here.

who would have thought he would be signed for 10 years after his final year in Van?

 

[wetcoast]

How has Washington’s “years of pain” led to their old core (i.e. Ovechkin) getting another chance to contend? Did Washington “fell in the standings in the deep 2023 draft” on purpose? Like Colorado ending up with the 3rd overall pick and selling because Joe Sakic got injured is not an intended retool/rebuild move.

I think Washington took steps to retool but I don’t see how those moves have led to Ovechkin and the old core getting another chance. In reality you really are talking about Ovechkin and Carlson when talking about the old core getting another chance. I don’t see the retool moves leading to a young core leading the way and allowing the old core another chance to contend. Which players drafted after the 2019 draft is giving Ovechkin “another chance?”

Ovechkin has been amazing but he can’t continue at this pace. Capitals will miss the playoffs once he’s gone or when he suffers a steep decline.

You mention Benning but the two first round picks he traded were for Miller and Garland who were key contributors to last year’s contending team. He didn’t trade away our first (Boeser) when we made the playoffs in his first year. Benning tried and failed to win but you can’t say he traded first round picks for aging players/rentals.

Ovechkin is having a nice season stat wise for his record chase but his PDO of 111.5 and shooting % of 22.1 isn't sustainable and really the capitals are winning even when he isn't in the lineup.

That being said I don't think that they are a serious SC contender.

They are kinda having the perfect season we had last year and hey will fall back to earth somewhat.

who would have thought he would be signed for 10 years after his final year in Van?

Exactly but in reality his cap hit at the end won't hurt that much and he is worth every penny to the Leafs right now.

 

[Kryten]

who would have thought he would be signed for 10 years after his final year in Van?

Me

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

He has played the same way after he left we just had bad luck with his health here.

I've found that there are often no coincidences in life. Not a black and white rule, correlation and causation. Just best to observe and let it play out. Really is the healthiest way to be a fan.

I must be the only hockey fan in in the world that almost never thinks about the Leafs. I don't watch them, I don't really interact with one who cares about them, and they just exist on the periphery of my awareness as a pretty good but perennially soft and underachieving team that is fun to watch in the event that they happen to be on when I have nothing better to do.

I try not to. Only because they are being shoved down our f***ing throats. But you hear shit anyways by osmosis.

 

[wetcoast]

I've found that there are often no coincidences in life. Not a black and white rule, correlation and causation. Just best to observe and let it play out. Really is the healthiest way to be a fan.

Okay sure but what exactly does that have to do with my post?

I try not to. Only because they are being shoved down our f***ing throats. But you hear shit anyways by osmosis.

Funny that when I travel outside of greater vancouver that the rest of BC feels this way.

In many ways Toronto and Vancouver are very similar as are their fan bases.

 

[Jyrki21]

I must be the only hockey fan in in the world that almost never thinks about the Leafs. I don't watch them, I don't really interact with one who cares about them, and they just exist on the periphery of my awareness as a pretty good but perennially soft and underachieving team that is fun to watch in the event that they happen to be on when I have nothing better to do.

While I don’t want to see them win a Cup, they are the only Toronto team that I don’t despise, and I find it weird how fixated Vancouverites are on them.

And if it’s the media thing, well, they’re hypocrites for feeding the beast in all the other sports. Those things spill over and it kills local/regional coverage.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Okay sure but what exactly does that have to do with my post?



Funny that when I travel outside of greater vancouver that the rest of BC feels this way.

In many ways Toronto and Vancouver are very similar as are their fan bases.

It only carries the meaning you want. What did the post mean to you?

 

[wetcoast]

It only carries the meaning you want. What did the post mean to you?

Let me have a gummy and it might resonate more when I'm stoned but it sound like Big Bert saying "it is what it is"

 

[quat]

Wash is getting a strong season from McMichael their 2019 first rounder. Plus a resurgence from Ovy to begin the season and stable goaltending.

That’s why teams and GMs will do retools vs tear downs that this site poster’s want teams to do, whenever they can. Not all will work out like Pitt getting EK. But GM would rather do this than likely not survive a 7 year rebuild which teams like Ana, SJ, Det, Ott, etc who have changed GMs though most were stepped downs by prior GM but unlikely Murray, Wilson, Holland, Bowman, etc would have made it through.

I'd say there's a broader scale than the black and white tear down vs retool that's argued over. You can take a patient approach to a retool, where you're not trying to rush things and some quality players are traded to increase or broaden your options for trades and of course your draft capital. For some reason that's often equated to a tear down, which clearly it's not.

 

[StreetHawk]

I'd say there's a broader scale than the black and white tear down vs retool that's argued over. You can take a patient approach to a retool, where you're not trying to rush things and some quality players are traded to increase or broaden your options for trades and of course your draft capital. For some reason that's often equated to a tear down, which clearly it's not.

One thing to trade you older guys in their 30’s who won’t have much in the take when you are done the retool. Take the isles. I can get them moving off Lee, Pageau, Nelson, Palmeri, and any of Pelech, Pulloch, Mayfield, Varly.
But makes little sense to move Barzal, Romanov, Dobson, Sorokin, and even Horvat.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Let me have a gummy and it might resonate more when I'm stoned but it sound like Big Bert saying "it is what it is"

Mpre word but yes

Do what your body feels is best. The hell do I know lol.

 

[quat]

One thing to trade you older guys in their 30’s who won’t have much in the take when you are done the retool. Take the isles. I can get them moving off Lee, Pageau, Nelson, Palmeri, and any of Pelech, Pulloch, Mayfield, Varly.
But makes little sense to move Barzal, Romanov, Dobson, Sorokin, and even Horvat.

Yes, in principal that would seems correct, but there's things like chemistry and dealing from positions of strength. Either way, my point was there's quite a wide scale that can accommodate a variety of approaches and still fall under the rubric of "retooling", despite there being a single move or two that may also be part of a more traditional "tear down". I would suggest that the Canucks trading Horvat, their captain and prime age Centre falls within that grey area.

 

[valkynax]

I dont think Chicago is that good. They probably aren't making the playoffs

The Bedards is constructed so poorly with so little thought, watching them feels like rubbing sand in my eyes.

It’s not so much the team for me, It’s the media. Both major sports networks are very Leaf centric, and Sportsnet no longer having regional content has only made it worse.

I see it as more evidence that mainstream media are just horseshit than anything else.

And yeah, f*** Commando Dimbo.

 

[VanJack]

L.A. won again tonight....sad fact is the Canucks are starting to lose touch with the top teams in the Pacific.

Edmonton, L.A. and Vegas just keep winning.....and once you get 8-10 points back in January, it's basically 'lights out'.

So a wildcard is probably the best this Canuck team can hope for......and I see the Canucks playoff odds are now below 50 percent.

I just have a gut feeling that a Canuck blockbuster trade is coming. And given the carnage around the Rangers these days, It wouldn't surprise me if the two teams hook up on something.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

L.A. won again tonight....sad fact is the Canucks are starting to lose touch with the top teams in the Pacific.

Edmonton, L.A. and Vegas just keep winning.....and once you get 8-10 points back in January, it's basically 'lights out'.

So a wildcard is probably the best this Canuck team can hope for......and I see the Canucks playoff odds are now below 50 percent.

I just have a gut feeling that a Canuck blockbuster trade is coming. And given the carnage around the Rangers these days, It wouldn't surprise me if the two teams hook up on something.

The good news is we've barely played any of them. We do have two games against Edmonton this month, but it's on the 16th and 23rd. Both Hughes and Pettersson should be back by then. We also have 3 games in hand over St. Louis

So we're still in the fight, but management needs to figure something out with our defense before we lose more ground.

 

[theguardianII]

The Bedards is constructed so poorly with so little thought, watching them feels like rubbing sand in my eyes.



I see it as more evidence that mainstream media are just horseshit than anything else.

And yeah, f*** Commando Dimbo.

That is the result of this monopoly. NHL rights owned by Rogers and the NHL restricting all NHL content in Canada, they are not allowed to do that in the States. Broadcast rights but not open conversations or scores and stats used for private shows. Down there if it is the public domain it is free to use.
Cheaper to just control and fulfil the Canadian mandate of Canadian content hence request to contribute to TO minor hockey etc for the rest of Canada.

 

[StreetHawk]

The Bedards is constructed so poorly with so little thought, watching them feels like rubbing sand in my eyes.

Them and SJ are barely going to get an average of 1/3 of the available points per season over these past 3 from 22/23 to 24/25 seasons. SJ at 60, 47 and pacing for 57 to arrive exactly at 164 points (max you can obtain in season). Chicago is 59, 52, pacing for 56. Forecasted to 167 points.

And they got blown out in the Winter Classic. 6-1 with like 3 minutes to go in the 2nd. Bedard, following the game said he wanted to apologize to the fans for their performance.

Whether either club gets pressure from the owner to make big improvements, we shall see. Chi tried for Guentzal, but were no where close to being competitive enough to convince players to join them in Free agency. Not much better this off-season. Those GMs are going to have to make some trades to really upgrade their rosters.

 

[Coffee]

We’ve had our fair share of hiccups in the past, but I want to say congrats on the big 100k, @NyQuil !!

HFBoards is a better place with you on board