Around the league part 2

[All The Kings Men]

It's not like Dean didn't make his fair share of errors. Difference was Lombardi kept the ship selling in the right direction and focused on a cohesive roster and culture despite the mistakes he made.

It's more complicated than this BUT one of the biggest advantages Lombardi has was inheriting a clean slate.

It's the biggest advantage Vegas had in their expansion. When you don't already have a silo of mistakes on your property you have way more runway to make your own.

There's a reason "the straw that broke the camels back" is an idiom.

Any single mistake can usually be fixed or minimized. It's when they pile up that they start becoming dangerous.

Lombardi's first mistakes were made before the Cup runs but he had enough room to operate even with those mistakes.

And of course ultimately the final straw should be judged with the same scrutiny as the first, second and all following straws but because it's the final straw the last mistake is often completely overblown.

The fact that people continuously focus on the Sekera trade for example baffles me. It was one trade that cost one first round pick and returned nothing. That didn't make the 20166-17 team get bogged down with injuries. It didn't cost the Kings any depth in the 2015-2017 range (none that you can actually demonstrate... it's all theoretical)


BUT because Lombardi had already made a series of other mistakes that hamstrung his flexibility, depth and culture people will hyperfixate on the last few easily identifiable straws.

 

[johnjm22]

It's more complicated than this BUT one of the biggest advantages Lombardi has was inheriting a clean slate.

Of course. If Lombardi inherits Blake's situation he probably doesn't ever win a cup.

I don't hate Blake like a lot of others around here do (I've defended him often). It's not really his choice what direction the organization goes in. It's more complicated than that.

My main issue with Blake is team identity seems to lack cohesion, and the PLD trade. But even with the PLD trade we don't know how much of it he's responsible for. Regardless his name is on it, so he'll get the blame.

 

[bland]

Of course. If Lombardi inherits Blake's situation he probably doesn't ever win a cup.

I don't hate Blake like a lot of others around here do (I've defended him often). It's not really his choice what direction the organization goes in. It's more complicated than that.

My main issue with Blake is team identity seems to lack cohesion, and the PLD trade. But even with the PLD trade we don't know how much of it he's responsible for. Regardless his name is on it, so he'll get the blame.

I will argue with anyone at anytime that Blake and Co. would have had every opportunity to dictate their own course if they had traded Kopitar instead of re-signing him to a contract that guaranteed 8 years of mediocrity at best. I know that is was done in Lombardi's dying days but I know that he also had reservations about it at the time.

That team had no cost controlled assets, no difference makers in the system, a dearth of recent picks and already had a series of retirement contracts locked in. There was zero chance of success over the first half of that deal, if Cups were your definition of success - and a rebuild was inevitable in the second half of the deal.

They could have jump started their own new era, but chose to double-down on somebody else's work.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I will argue with anyone at anytime that Blake and Co. would have had every opportunity to dictate their own course if they had traded Kopitar instead of re-signing him to a contract that guaranteed 8 years of mediocrity at best. I know that is was done in Lombardi's dying days but I know that he also had reservations about it at the time.

That team had no cost controlled assets, no difference makers in the system, a dearth of recent picks and already had a series of retirement contracts locked in. There was zero chance of success over the first half of that deal, if Cups were your definition of success - and a rebuild was inevitable in the second half of the deal.

They could have jump started their own new era, but chose to double-down on somebody else's work.

LOL you call my takes ridiculous but you think an organization is not going to sign their best player long term.....Holy shit.....

Again, please show me anywhere in professional sports, that a team jettison's their BEST player, absent of a financial issue or dysfunctional issue etc..... I can wait.

 

[kingsfan28]

Can you imagine if the Wild were in the playoffs?

We'd be getting doubly mocked. "How bout that play by Faber? He's only 21. Boy the Kings sure could use him right now!"

But they're not. It's a stupid snarky comment by a couple of hasbeens trying to be edgy.

 

[Mattias]

.

 

[Mattias]

LOL you call my takes ridiculous but you think an organization is not going to sign their best player long term.....Holy shit.....

Again, please show me anywhere in professional sports, that a team jettison's their BEST player, absent of a financial issue or dysfunctional issue etc..... I can wait.

Brett Farve?
Hershell Walker?
Mark McGwire?
Donovan McNabb?
Randy Johnson?
Kevin Garnett?
...Wilt Chamberlain?

 

[kingsfan28]

How much better would we view this trade and Blake (not to mention the actual team success/future) had Blake held out for it being Grans instead of Faber. Heck, even if it were Spence or Durzi. So many options and he gave up Faber so easily. SMH.

Holly speculation batman. That's might be the longest reach I've ever read.

 

[kingsfan28]

,,

 

[kingsfan28]

I will argue with anyone at anytime that Blake and Co. would have had every opportunity to dictate their own course if they had traded Kopitar instead of re-signing him to a contract that guaranteed 8 years of mediocrity at best. I know that is was done in Lombardi's dying days but I know that he also had reservations about it at the time.

That team had no cost controlled assets, no difference makers in the system, a dearth of recent picks and already had a series of retirement contracts locked in. There was zero chance of success over the first half of that deal, if Cups were your definition of success - and a rebuild was inevitable in the second half of the deal.

They could have jump started their own new era, but chose to double-down on somebody else's work.

That's right, you wanted to trade him right after winning the cup in 2014 because his value was at an all time high, right?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

View attachment 858956

Billy Guerin must have really made it known to these guys that participating in this tournament might really help your chances in making it on to the 2025 4-Nations or the big one the 2026 Olympics. A good showing here and a big year in the NHL next year could get quite a few names on this roster some consideration.

They could fill out the roster with Nick Shore, John Zeiler, Noah Clarke, Scott Parse and Jamie McBain and it would still be the most stacked US roster ever for the worlds.

I am interested that Faber turned it down, is he hurt? Does he think he's shown enough.

Did he turn it down? Genuinely asking, haven't seen reporting. This says it's the first fifteen though--theyr'e surely not going withonly 5 dmen and Faber would be at absolute worst the 4rd best on that list.

 

[Bandit]

That's right, you wanted to trade him right after winning the cup in 2014 because his value was at an all time high, right?

10 years later and we haven’t won a single playoff series.

 

[kingsfan28]

10 years later and we haven’t won a single playoff series.

So you would've traded an in his prime Kopitar the summer after winning the cup?

 

[Bandit]

So you would've trade an in his prime Kopitar?

10 years later and we haven’t won a single playoff series.

How useful has “prime Kopitar” been to this franchise’s success?

 

[bland]

That's right, you wanted to trade him right after winning the cup in 2014 because his value was at an all time high, right?

That's right, you think Lombardi was fired right after winning the Cup?

 

[kingsfan28]

10 years later and we haven’t won a single playoff series.

How useful has “prime Kopitar” been to this franchise’s success?

So 10 years ago you knew this would be the situation Nostradamus? The Hawks probably should've traded both Toews and Kane then too.

 

[bland]

So 10 years ago you knew this would be the situation Nostradamus? The Hawks probably should've traded both Toews and Kane then too.

Lol, are you new?

Even KP who cringes at the subject would tell you that the last 8 years have gone EXACTLY as described at the time this argument was made. It's not fortune telling, it's just knowing what you are talking about. They weren't going to win a single series over the course of his extension.

The only thing I was wrong about was that I stated that Anze would have fallen off sooner. His longevity has been remarkable, but the team results were easy to see.

 

[KINGS17]

Great play by Eichel there.

So you would've traded an in his prime Kopitar the summer after winning the cup?

Well, since several of us would have pulled the trigger during the 2015-16 season, yes.

 

[King'sPawn]

10 years later and we haven’t won a single playoff series.

How useful has “prime Kopitar” been to this franchise’s success?

That says more about management failing to construct a winning roster, not a single franchise player who has stayed on the roster.

That's like saying the Kings haven't won a cup since Willie Mitchell left. Correlation =/= Causation

 

[King'sPawn]

Even KP who cringes at the subject would tell you that the last 8 years have gone EXACTLY as described at the time this argument was made.

Nope. Nor do I cringe at the subject. I simply avoid it at times because arguing over it has escalated at times with you that I don't want or intend to.

I argued that if they didn't make other changes at a larger scale, then the org would be in trouble.

Your argument for the past 8 years has centered around Kopitar (you call it the old guard at times but you have made Kopitar the focal point) being the cause. If they traded Kopitar and kept their operational and procedural processes and attitudes, I submit the Kings would be just as bad off, if not worse.

If Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Quick, etc refused to go along with a rebuild, yes, they should have been traded. But you still need different types of leaders and winners to manage the team's pulse. 8 years is plenty of time to keep them on the roster but built around a different core.

Lombardi turned things around within 6 years. This is management's inability to fix holes in the team's infrastructure, establish an identity, and adhere to a plan.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Brett Farve?
Hershell Walker?
Mark McGwire?
Donovan McNabb?
Randy Johnson?
Kevin Garnett?
...Wilt Chamberlain?

Oh dear, I don't think you realized what happened,

Favre, retired, then unretired, then maybe retired,

Walker, sure, not coming off of a championship, but sure.

McGuire wasn't going to resign

McNabb might be one, but he played his way out of Philly that season for sure

Johnson, injury related

Garnett....3 years not making the playoffs, but ok

Chamberlain trade was financially related.....

Out of those, you have 3.....out of going back what now, 60 years in all major sports....

There's a reason why it RARELY happens.

 

[johnjm22]

Utah looks stoked for the NHL.

 

[YP44]

Never fails, whenever Toronto and Edmonton lose it is because of bad breaks and officiating. I really want to cheer for McDavid but the media for Edmonton (not even their fans) make it so god damn hard. Sick of hearing Debrusk call playoff games. I remember when CBC had the rights they would never have a local broadcaster cover that teams playoffs. Jim Houston in Vancouver for example. Unless the team made it to the finals, than it sometimes happened.

Sportsnet is BS home shit that basically spews propaganda and ignorance. It is sad with Bieksa is f***ing voice of reason.


Rant over.

 

[johnjm22]

At least hockey is popular somewhere.

I forget the NBA even exists sometimes. Totally forgot the NBA playoffs were going on.

 

[kovacro]

First remember listening to him call Leafs games on HNIC in the early 80's when I was a little dude. In his prime, he was stellar.

RIP, Bob.

Bob Cole, the voice of Hockey Night In Canada, passes away at age 90 | TSN

Bob Cole, a welcome voice for Canadian hockey fans for a half-century, has died at the age of 90. The voice of "Hockey Night in Canada" for more than 50 years called his final game in April of 2019.

www.tsn.ca

Never fails, whenever Toronto and Edmonton lose it is because of bad breaks and officiating. I really want to cheer for McDavid but the media for Edmonton (not even their fans) make it so god damn hard. Sick of hearing Debrusk call playoff games. I remember when CBC had the rights they would never have a local broadcaster cover that teams playoffs. Jim Houston in Vancouver for example. Unless the team made it to the finals, than it sometimes happened.

Sportsnet is BS home shit that basically spews propaganda and ignorance. It is sad with Bieksa is f***ing voice of reason.


Rant over.

Jeebus, the broadcast team for this series is brutal. The play by play voice was almost in shock when LA scored a couple of those goals last night, no enthusiasm. When the Oilers scored, he blew his load.