Actually, he had a chat with one of the greatest coaches of the past 30 years, who told him that he needed to start putting team success above individual success, and he fully bought in and changed his game to become a more responsible player for the benefit of his team. He didn't just suddenly grow into one of the best 2-way leaders of the '90s because he'd matured - Expecting other players to just do that probably isn't the safest bet.
Around the League: Capitals and Ovie are Stanley Cup Champions
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Happens all the time with superstars. Granted they may not win Stanley Cups if they don’t have the supporting cast.
It’s a little early to cast Stamkos as “he can’t win guy”.
While I agree that it's too early to determine Stamkos' future, I think it's disingenuous to suggest that the kinds of transformations Yzerman underwent in the '90s happen "all the time" - We're talking about one of the greatest players of all time here, and while some superstars may mature and become more responsible with age, turning themselves from pure scorers into elite 2-way players is not exactly common.
The point is that Stamkos, like Yzerman, might need a real "come to Jesus" moment before he ever comes close to doing what Yzerman did.
ShaneFalco
Registered User
The stamkos thing is overdone. Ultimately you hate when a player doesn’t come to your team and I would rather ovy win then him. It is more about the “Tampa tax” situation that their fans pretend doesn’t exist.
Stamkos liked posts about coming here. He was playing on the wing, he was offered 8.5. He might not have been playing the leafs the whole time, as some assume. He may have expected more money and the leafs offered him less than expected with sponsorship to make it up.
People here act like it is sacriledge for a person to have competing emotions involving millions of dollars and a decade of their lives. It all seems so easy on the internet but I bet most can’t even decide what they want for dinner
Stamkos liked posts about coming here. He was playing on the wing, he was offered 8.5. He might not have been playing the leafs the whole time, as some assume. He may have expected more money and the leafs offered him less than expected with sponsorship to make it up.
People here act like it is sacriledge for a person to have competing emotions involving millions of dollars and a decade of their lives. It all seems so easy on the internet but I bet most can’t even decide what they want for dinner
According to Mark Madden of 105.9 FM, the Pittsburgh Penguins are going to attempt to move Phil Kessel this off-season and the 30-year-old is “OK with that.”
https://www.tsn.ca/off-season-watch-kessel-pens-headed-for-a-split-1.1094853
https://www.tsn.ca/off-season-watch-kessel-pens-headed-for-a-split-1.1094853
Daisy Jane
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okay but people are still allowed to feel upset (even if you don't like it/understand it) that he didn't choose to come here. like. okay. i respect the fact he had a tough decision, i respect the fact he didn't choose to come here and wanted to do what was best for him. that doesn't mean i have to like him for not choosing to come here and help my team be better. you can respect the process, and be upset at the decision. it's part of fandom.
No I agree with that exactly. What I have an issue with is people acting like stamkos was purposely using the leafs just to ratchet up the price. He could have very easily wanted to sign or was seriously considered it. Or he could have been planning to sign and the meeting went bad.
I didn’t like that he didn’t come. I would rather he didn’t win. But I don’t think he had some evil plan to mess with the leafs
Daisy Jane
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well i find (sometimes) that is the case.
i mean we'll never ultimately know but i just find it very interesting that the deal that Yzerman offered, was the deal that Stamkos accepted. and I don't (personally) believe that you go through everything he did during his UFA (including the nudge nudge, wink wink likes, etc of several articles pertaining to him being a leaf) if there wasn't some of "hey well you know the Leafs will take me..."
but from everything that we've heard the Leafs offer was very similar (or less, they never offered him 10++), so it was sponsors + similar to the yzerman offer and it could have been again overwhelming etc (or just not for him). then he takes the Yzerman offer.i can see why that could leave a sour taste in some people's mouth (it did in mine). but ultimately, regardless of what happened (or what people want to believe) - i think ultimately it would have been nice to have Stamkos, but he didn't choose us and like most players in that same situation for me, he's dead to me LOL regardless of the why
well i find (sometimes) that is the case.
i mean we'll never ultimately know but i just find it very interesting that the deal that Yzerman offered, was the deal that Stamkos accepted. and I don't (personally) believe that you go through everything he did during his UFA (including the nudge nudge, wink wink likes, etc of several articles pertaining to him being a leaf) if there wasn't some of "hey well you know the Leafs will take me..."
but from everything that we've heard the Leafs offer was very similar (or less, they never offered him 10++), so it was sponsors + similar to the yzerman offer and it could have been again overwhelming etc (or just not for him). then he takes the Yzerman offer.i can see why that could leave a sour taste in some people's mouth (it did in mine). but ultimately, regardless of what happened (or what people want to believe) - i think ultimately it would have been nice to have Stamkos, but he didn't choose us and like most players in that same situation for me, he's dead to me LOL regardless of the why
Sure but he must have been considering it. He only met with us. He had meetings lined up with buffalo and Detroit if I recall and he didn’t even go through with them. If all you are doing is trying to drive the price up. Why not take those meetings. He walked out of the to meeting and signed that day. We don’t know. We never will. But it doesn’t seem like a guy who just wanted to stay in Tampa and was trying to make the lighting pay up.
The most logical scenario to me is:
“Hey I want to play in my hometown, but they are last place. The media is nuts, and I get tons of tax breaks here. Also we are a cup contender”. so he goes to see wha the leafs offer and they don’t offer more in actual money but in sponsorships. Which aren’t gauranteed..... decides he doesn’t want to leave and goes back to Y and signs.
If you just want to use someone. You don’t care who you are using. He could have met with buffalo too and said they are offering me 12.....
Ultimately I think we mostly agree.and there is a small part of Me that is glad he got bounced for not picking us. But I understand why he might have. If I was in his shoes i probably would have stayed in Tampa to be honest
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
All those pre-expansion claims/concerns about hockey not thriving in the desert look pretty silly now
Daisy Jane
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because they are winning
Florida had packed houses too
Carolina was the place to be when they were on their cup run
when - not if - vegas has a dry patch, will it be the hottest ticket, should be the question.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
We’ll see, but the evidence so far seems to Suggest Vegas is very much a hockey town.
One thing to buy tickets to games, another to show up to practices like this.
Daisy Jane
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right.
again because they are winning and in the finals.
honestly just watch any retrospective of the Panthers cup run. they were rock stars
now, not so much.
i mean, i' hope that this means good thing for vegas, but they haven't even suffered real adversity yet (as in oh no, we suck kind). once they do (and we knows it's gonna happen), and people still respond like this, then, for sure we can argue that it was silly to think that.
but having 1 team in the desert (that sucks) and a market that had zero sports teams i dontt hink it was silly to think it wouldn't work. (and we don'tknow if it will again because everything is coming up amazing. let's see after there are storm clouds coming their way)
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No, Detroit doesn’t, Montreal doesn’t, Ottawa doesn’t.......good fans in any sport wont support a losing franchise, or they’ll get a losing franchise.
Also the Vegas fans have apretty good hockey knowledge.
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Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Yeah I never really understood why folks think fans should support bad teams financially.
Like my fandom doesn’t change, but I won’t give my money to a team that hasn’t earned it.
Daisy Jane
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and how much of that is due to Detroit and Ottawa's financial situation (and for Ottawa, Ottawa's location) more than the team winning or losing? and note. I didn't say losing. I said dry patch, and that could be anything from just being vanilla average (always just missing the playoffs), or being 1st round wonders. I don't mean being like Buffalo bad (but i mean eventually that will happen too, it's the natural order of things). I also never said they didn't have good hockey knowledge.
all I am saying it's very hard to judge anything when your very first year your team is amazing. when their team is not amazing, how 'thriving' and 'popular' will it be. we can agree to disagree on your last statement.
well of course that's your opinion. but i feel (personally) you're never going to be a powerhouse all the time. there are going to be lean times (ie: Blue Jays 22 years or Football might have some doozies, hell the Leafs in particular), but it's easy being supportive when your team is good. i think it speaks a lot for fandom if you also support your team during lean years, because all teams have them.
how many people on this very board became fans of the team in the last 10 years when things weren't so rosy (and a lot of people aren't born in Toronto/Canada), so it's not even like to say oh it's a 'hometown' thing. i mean it's a collective 'your' money, but i just feel if you are a fan there shouldn't be conditions. but. each their own.
LaPlante94
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Ovechkins criticism was mainly because he could beat Crosby and had many 1st and 2nd round exits though. Stamkos has been to the finals already.
Liminality
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Yes. When Vegas misses the playoffs they will not be lining up to watch practice.
But right now they are out drawing baseball teams and they are building a fan base which is absolutely the key the season.
Nashville took awhile but now you see several cars with Preds stickers and licence tags all over TN.
As an NHL fan living in the south it’s great to be able to talk to people about hockey.
But right now they are out drawing baseball teams and they are building a fan base which is absolutely the key the season.
Nashville took awhile but now you see several cars with Preds stickers and licence tags all over TN.
As an NHL fan living in the south it’s great to be able to talk to people about hockey.
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ULF_55
Moderator
It has been easy this year.
1st. year
winning games
Wait until it is year 15-30 and they go through a decade of nothing to brag about.
That's when you can decide if it is a hockey town.
Daisy Jane
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Albert Iafrate
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I have to say, I despise all this whining about Vegas. They are a good team. They have been all season. Their goalie is amazing, but he was hurt for 25 games and they still were a great team. They won the next 5 games after he went down. They were winning with 5th string goalies. Rather than seeing Fleury making the team look better, you could also conclude that the system that they play is making Fleury look all-world.
It all just reeks of jealousy and is pretty sad and pathetic if you ask me. Just because our city hasn't produced at this level of success in 3 of the major sports in the 21st century doesn't mean you can't enjoy when another city does. People tend to forget that success in the US is good for the game, especially in "non-hockey" markets. The more the game grows south of the border, the larger the pool of young talent will be to choose from every year at the draft, the better the game will get. For all the griping about Arizona/Phoenix over the last 10 years, we of all teams should realize the benefit of having that team in that area of the world, and if I have to explain why, well, you've completely missed my point.
My personal theory on the surprise success of Vegas is based on this question...
Is it better to have a team with a handful of amazing players but also a handful of terrible players, or is it better to have a team with no amazing players but also no terrible players? What I mean to say, is that because hockey is such a team sport, is having a slow unskilled bottom six is worse than not having a fast skilled top line? 3/4 of the NHL has at least 4 or 5 players that just don't belong in the NHL any more. They are part of the "old NHL". The advantage Vegas had was a clean slate. They were able to pick players that are what I would call "future capable". They all fit in the "new NHL". They might not be amazingly skilled, but they ALL play in a way that reflects the present and future of the NHL. There are no lumbering slow players that slow others down. They are no players on that team that you would consider having a low "hockey-IQ". Every other team in the NHL is transitioning from the old NHL to the new NHL. Vegas was able to just flip a switch. There is nothing more symbolic of this than watching the way in which Vegas begins their games. The light shows, the cheesy but fun theatrics. What do we bring out? Old dudes and veteran soldiers. We've been living in the past, and so has most of the rest of the NHL.
This obviously means that once other teams catch up with the evolution of the game, Vegas will not have that advantage, but by that time, they will have attracted some top end talent that match with what they've got going on, so I'm not convinced this is a one off. Don't be surprised to see a Erik Karlsson or an Artemi Panarin end up there as a free agent in 2019.
I'll be happy if either team wins, but I feel like Washington is one of the last of the "old-NHL" style teams that has not fallen off drastically (see Chicago, Anaheim, LA), so I wouldn't mind seeing some young blood put a nail in that coffin.
It all just reeks of jealousy and is pretty sad and pathetic if you ask me. Just because our city hasn't produced at this level of success in 3 of the major sports in the 21st century doesn't mean you can't enjoy when another city does. People tend to forget that success in the US is good for the game, especially in "non-hockey" markets. The more the game grows south of the border, the larger the pool of young talent will be to choose from every year at the draft, the better the game will get. For all the griping about Arizona/Phoenix over the last 10 years, we of all teams should realize the benefit of having that team in that area of the world, and if I have to explain why, well, you've completely missed my point.
My personal theory on the surprise success of Vegas is based on this question...
Is it better to have a team with a handful of amazing players but also a handful of terrible players, or is it better to have a team with no amazing players but also no terrible players? What I mean to say, is that because hockey is such a team sport, is having a slow unskilled bottom six is worse than not having a fast skilled top line? 3/4 of the NHL has at least 4 or 5 players that just don't belong in the NHL any more. They are part of the "old NHL". The advantage Vegas had was a clean slate. They were able to pick players that are what I would call "future capable". They all fit in the "new NHL". They might not be amazingly skilled, but they ALL play in a way that reflects the present and future of the NHL. There are no lumbering slow players that slow others down. They are no players on that team that you would consider having a low "hockey-IQ". Every other team in the NHL is transitioning from the old NHL to the new NHL. Vegas was able to just flip a switch. There is nothing more symbolic of this than watching the way in which Vegas begins their games. The light shows, the cheesy but fun theatrics. What do we bring out? Old dudes and veteran soldiers. We've been living in the past, and so has most of the rest of the NHL.
This obviously means that once other teams catch up with the evolution of the game, Vegas will not have that advantage, but by that time, they will have attracted some top end talent that match with what they've got going on, so I'm not convinced this is a one off. Don't be surprised to see a Erik Karlsson or an Artemi Panarin end up there as a free agent in 2019.
I'll be happy if either team wins, but I feel like Washington is one of the last of the "old-NHL" style teams that has not fallen off drastically (see Chicago, Anaheim, LA), so I wouldn't mind seeing some young blood put a nail in that coffin.
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