Around the League 38: It was 3 to 1...

[moses malone 12]

What are they going to say about a top 5 team in wins the last 4 years? We suck? Seriously? They said we like our group but look to improve. They aren’t forced to do anything because there isn’t a need to force anything. We made it to the ECF and there isn’t a move over the last 3 years that would have changed anything. Because the playoffs are random.

If Eichel’s neck surgery didn’t go as planned, are we now worse off with a 10 million .5 ppg player and no necas?
If Tarasenko’s shoulder didn’t pan out would have been worse with a 7 million dude who can’t stay on the roster?

Those are likely the only 2 moves where we had a chance at winning.

looks like we found Wadell's burner account. welcome aboard Donnie Turtlenecks.

FWIW - the fan base expects a trip to the SCFs. Nobody remembers regular season wins or winning percentage. Get it done partner.
Also pool party as a reclamation project is a waste of a roster spot. stop playing in the discount aisle and nut up for christ sake.

 

[LakeLivin]

i hear she is nice and listens really well when its time to give that CC number.

She died in 2016. You can still talk to her, but now it's from the other side of the veil.

 

[Lempo]

In the meantime, they can still negotiate long term?

Yes. Quite often it actually feels that a party files for arbitration mainly to force a deadline for a proper negotiated SPC (and having the arbitrator awarded one is really just a plan B in case the negotiations fail).

I think it was recently changed that they can negotiate and agree on a SPC until the arbitration hearing.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

It's not unrelated to their high-end pipeline though.
1) The player they selected with the 20th OA pick on that list was a key piece of the deal for Meier. We, didn't have anyone of that draft pedigree in our system. We fans might argue that Morrow had more value, but SJ probably didn't think so. Only Jarvis, who was a full time NHLr had that draft pedigree (and more), and NJ wouldn't have traded Mercer like we likely wouldn't have done Jarvis.

2), having the 2nd OA pick the prior season and the 4th OA PICK 2 season's back, who were both defensemen, gave them depth so they could afford to move that defenseman that was drafted 20th OA. We don't have a Nemec or Hughes level defensemen in our system.

I buy point 1. But from a point 2 perspective, if it’s true that we were offering folks like Jarvis, I don’t really think it matters whether we had the depth to handle it. If we offered the players, we offered the players, regardless of whether we had higher end players in the system to soften the blow. Just because an offer might’ve “hurt” us more than them because the 20OA level guys are 8th in their system and 2nd in ours, doesn’t matter much when comparing trade packages side by side, does it?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I buy point 1. But from a point 2 perspective, if it’s true that we were offering folks like Jarvis, I don’t really think it matters whether we had the depth to handle it. If we offered the players, we offered the players, regardless of whether we had higher end players in the system to soften the blow. Just because an offer might’ve “hurt” us more than them because the 20OA level guys are 8th in their system and 2nd in ours, doesn’t matter much when comparing trade packages side by side, does it?

I think you are missing my point, or I did a bad job explaining it.

I don't think we were offering Jarvis, nor do I think NJ offered Mercer (as was being bantered around). We'll never know, but set that aside.

My point is this, our management basically said the only untouchable was Nikishin. As good as he's done over in Russia, he's not the caliber prospect as Nemec or Hughes. So because we didn't have a plethora of defensive prospects, the Canes would not include Nikishin. We likely included Morrow, our next best defensive prospect.

NJ, OTOH, had no problem offering Mukhamadullin because they had higher end prospects. If we had Nemec and Hughes in our system, I highly doubt we would have had Nikishin as an untouchable. If NJ didn't have those two, they may not have offered him in a trade. That's where my point 2 applies

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

looks like we found Wadell's burner account. welcome aboard Donnie Turtlenecks.

FWIW - the fan base expects a trip to the SCFs. Nobody remembers regular season wins or winning percentage. Get it done partner.
Also pool party as a reclamation project is a waste of a roster spot. stop playing in the discount aisle and nut up for christ sake.

interesting.....

 

[hockeynjune]

Also, last season we fans complained about too many changes to the roster as we let go/traded Trocheck, Nino, DeAngelo, Cole, Smith, Bear, Domi, and Lorentz. Now we are already complaining about WLOT before the offseason even begins.

So you think we should be reasonable? Have you met us …?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I think you are missing my point, or I did a bad job explaining it.

I don't think we were offering Jarvis, nor do I think NJ offered Mercer (as was being bantered around). We'll never know, but set that aside.

My point is this, our management basically said the only untouchable was Nikishin. As good as he's done over in Russia, he's not the caliber prospect as Nemec or Hughes. So because we didn't have a plethora of defensive prospects, the Canes would not include Nikishin. We likely included Morrow, our next best defensive prospect.

NJ, OTOH, had no problem offering Mukhamadullin because they had higher end prospects. If we had Nemec and Hughes in our system, I highly doubt we would have had Nikishin as an untouchable. If NJ didn't have those two, they may not have offered him in a trade. That's where my point 2 applies

Did our management say that? I might’ve missed that. If so, point taken. If not, and we offered Nikishin, point not taken. Lol.


(I also think Mukh is way, way closer to Morrow than Nikishin, but that’s a separate point as well.)

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So you think we should be reasonable? Have you met us …?

No, but doesn’t mean I can’t make fun of the unreasonableness.

Did our management say that? I might’ve missed that. If so, point taken. If not, and we offered Nikishin, point not taken. Lol.


(I also think Mukh is way, way closer to Morrow than Nikishin, but that’s a separate point as well.)

Lebrun reported that Nikishin was untouchable.

Carolina Hurricanes Not Willing To Trade Alexander Nikishin

Get ready for another mid-round pick by the Carolina Hurricanes to become an impact player at the NHL level. Over …

www.prohockeyrumors.com

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

It's not unrelated to their high-end pipeline though.
1) The player they selected with the 20th OA pick on that list was a key piece of the deal for Meier. We, didn't have anyone of that draft pedigree in our system. We fans might argue that Morrow had more value, but SJ probably didn't think so. Only Jarvis, who was a full time NHLr had that draft pedigree (and more), and NJ wouldn't have traded Mercer like we likely wouldn't have done Jarvis.

2), having the 2nd OA pick the prior season and the 4th OA PICK 2 season's back, who were both defensemen, gave them depth so they could afford to move that defenseman that was drafted 20th OA. We don't have a Nemec or Hughes level defensemen in our system.

Mostly agree but Nikishin as it stands right now is a Hughes/Nemec caliber prospect. No guarantees and he's older but he's elevated himself to that level.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Mostly agree but Nikishin as it stands right now is a Hughes/Nemec caliber prospect. No guarantees and he's older but he's elevated himself to that level.

Yes and no.

Maybe on ice he has elevated himself, but there are other factors when it comes to trade value and impact on a team. I doubt most GMs think that he has similar TRADE VALUE for a few reasons. Draft Pedigree isn't as good. He's older. The reports of minor cardiac issues. He's not signed (unlike Hughes and Nemec) and won't be able to sign for a couple of years. Since he played for Putin's favorite team, there's a chance he won't sign even then. The concerns over Russian prospects due to the war. etc... Point being is there are a lot more unknowns when it comes to Nikishin.

What he's accomplished is remarkable so I'm not downplaying that and Nikishin could end up be as good or better than those two long term; but there are a lot of other factors that affect value in a trade.

Same goes for Morrow vs. Mukhamidullin. NJ's asset was already signed which adds value to the asset in a trade scenario. Morrow isn't and, as we've seen, has gone back to college for a 3rd year. That plays into the value equation from a trade perspective.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Yes and no.

Maybe on ice he has elevated himself, but there are other factors when it comes to trade value and impact on a team. I doubt most GMs think that he has similar TRADE VALUE for a few reasons. Draft Pedigree isn't as good. He's older. The reports of minor cardiac issues. He's not signed (unlike Hughes and Nemec) and won't be able to sign for a couple of years. Since he played for Putin's favorite team, there's a chance he won't sign even then. The concerns over Russian prospects due to the war. etc... Point being is there are a lot more unknowns when it comes to Nikishin.

What he's accomplished is remarkable so I'm not downplaying that and Nikishin could end up be as good or better than those two long term; but there are a lot of other factors that affect value in a trade.

Same goes for Morrow vs. Mukhamidullin. NJ's asset was already signed which adds value to the asset in a trade scenario. Morrow isn't and, as we've seen, has gone back to college for a 3rd year. That plays into the value equation from a trade perspective.

Don't disagree with any of this, just your point in your other post that we don't have a D prospect of Hughes/Nemec caliber. We do in Nikishin, agree his trade value is lower but I think his value to us right now is every bit as high as Hughes/Nemec's value is to the Devils, hence why he is reported to be untouchable. None of those 3 are or were ever getting traded obviously.

Morrow is close enough to Mukh that the value there could've been made up for with pick(s) and having Nikishin would allow us to offer Morrow which I bet we did. Completely agree with your overall larger point that NJ had more assets to offer in a trade because of how bad they were and the picks they got and that's a big factor. The deal that wound up getting it done for Timo I think is something we could've beaten with the assets we have if we wanted to (even not touching Jarvis, Nikishin) but we were never going to win a bidding war with the Devils. Which I'm glad about as I'm not high on Timo at all.

 

[hblueridgegal]

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

now just sign over to 8.5+ million per so they can be a wonderful Edmonton team.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Don't disagree with any of this, just your point in your other post that we don't have a D prospect of Hughes/Nemec caliber. We do in Nikishin, agree his trade value is lower but I think his value to us right now is every bit as high as Hughes/Nemec's value is to the Devils, hence why he is reported to be untouchable. None of those 3 are or were ever getting traded obviously.

Fair enough. I should have stated it more clearly that by "caliber", I was referring to the entire package, both on ice and probability of him coming over/contributing.

Morrow is close enough to Mukh that the value there could've been made up for with pick(s) and having Nikishin would allow us to offer Morrow which I bet we did.

Maybe, maybe not. If there's a real concern about him signing, a pick or two wouldn't have made up the difference.

Again, point being we fans think: "We offered this prospect and a few more picks could have made the difference" could be completely wrong (we don't know). If SJ liked Mukh better and had some concerns over getting Morrow signed, a few picks wouldn't have made the difference IMO.

The deal that wound up getting it done for Timo I think is something we could've beaten with the assets we have if we wanted to (even not touching Jarvis, Nikishin) b

Again, not if SJ didn't like the centerpiece of our deal as much as NJ's.

 

[Canes]

now just sign over to 8.5+ million per so they can be a wonderful Edmonton team.

Palat is really their only brutal contract. Unless Mercer or L. Hughes sign an offer sheet I think they'll be fine cap wise.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Palat is really their only brutal contract. Unless Mercer or L. Hughes sign an offer sheet I think they'll be fine cap wise.

hamilton and palat.

their defense is very, very young and their goalie are very, very mediocre. not a good recipe for success

 

[bleedgreen]

hamilton and palat.

their defense is very, very young and their goalie are very, very mediocre. not a good recipe for success

Hamilton is worth at least 8. You talk about him like he’s Nurse or Jones.

Palat was unhealthy this year and played exactly how they wanted him to in the playoffs. He’s also only overpaid by maybe one mill and one year.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Hamilton is worth at least 8. You talk about him like he’s Nurse or Jones.

Palat was unhealthy this year and played exactly how they wanted him to in the playoffs. He’s also only overpaid by maybe one mill and one year.

Hamilton's value isnt an issue now, its a bad contract in the future. Same with Palat. Right when NJ is really hitting their stride is when Hamilton and Palat will be declining and now NJ Is trying to compete win 15 million of dying weight.

Btw: Nurse is slightly worse offensively than hamilton but better defensively. So they have pretty similar values. Again it isnt his value now that is the concern but his value in the later half of his deal.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Hamilton is worth at least 8. You talk about him like he’s Nurse or Jones.

Palat was unhealthy this year and played exactly how they wanted him to in the playoffs. He’s also only overpaid by maybe one mill and one year.

Agreed with all of this.

The issue is just going to become that they have a bunch of "more-or-less" fair deals on their team for pretty darn good players. But eventually you just run out of space for more $8m contracts. We're talking a Tampa Bay-level contract landscape for a team that's still trying to build.

I don't think it's a result of doing anything "wrong", per se. But typically you have to have contracts of all sorts of value. McDavid is worth $15m, but you can only fit like 5 of those in before you have no cap space left for your other 15 players. What are you going to do, tell a team to stop having so many McDavids? Probably not. Obviously we're not talking McDavids here but we're talking legit $7-9m players. Those are good guys to have, but get too many and it's tough.

Mercer will be up next year, Luke Hughes the year after, and Nemec the year after that. They will have no meaningful cap relief from expiring contracts in those 3 years.

Now, the positive side is, they will also have an absurdly young and talented core locked up for a long time. If they can figure out how to fit the whole feast on the plate, they'll have "solved" it and won't have to negotiate again for years, which would be scary.

Probably one of the teams most hoping for a big cap hike in the next year or two.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Hamilton is worth at least 8. You talk about him like he’s Nurse or Jones.

Palat was unhealthy this year and played exactly how they wanted him to in the playoffs. He’s also only overpaid by maybe one mill and one year.

He was worth 8 last year and probably will be this upcoming year, but after that...? Also as much as I loved Dougie his playoff performance here was a concern and he did nothing to alleviate it last year with the Devils. That contract is definitely an anchor all things considered.

 

[moses malone 12]

hamilton and palat.

their defense is very, very young and their goalie are very, very mediocre. not a good recipe for success

I think people overlook how bad their goaltending might be. Their goalie in our series was horrific. maybe he saved them in the NYR series but he was awful against us.

 

[bleedgreen]

Hamilton's value isnt an issue now, its a bad contract in the future. Same with Palat. Right when NJ is really hitting their stride is when Hamilton and Palat will be declining and now NJ Is trying to compete win 15 million of dying weight.

Btw: Nurse is slightly worse offensively than hamilton but better defensively. So they have pretty similar values. Again it isnt his value now that is the concern but his value in the later half of his deal.

They’re hitting their stride right now, as well as into the future. We were in our window during Rod’s second year of coaching and I don’t think we realized it. We've been thinking we have another year in this window but we may trade Pesce now which can change our current group significantly. Of course another window can open, the point is that NHL timelines have sped up in recent years and Dougie is a perfectly appropriate contract for that team. Not only have NHL windows come on quicker, they can leave quicker too. NJ doesn’t care about Dougie‘s last couple of years right now, not should they. He’s there to push them right now, as is Palat. They’re such a young team Palat makes a lot of sense. If you want to play the ufa game you have to accept the last couple of years of any of these contracts are rough. Teams move money every year, after everyone says they’ll never be able to do it.

I think you’d have a hard time finding a GM who if they had to choose between the contracts would choose Nurse over Dougie.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

They’re hitting their stride right now, as well as into the future. We were in our window during Rod’s second year of coaching and I don’t think we realized it. We've been thinking we have another year in this window but we may trade Pesce now which can change our current group significantly. Of course another window can open, the point is that NHL timelines have sped up in recent years and Dougie is a perfectly appropriate contract for that team. Not only have NHL windows come on quicker, they can leave quicker too. NJ doesn’t care about Dougie‘s last couplee of years right now, not should they. He’s there to push them right now, as is Palat. They’re such a young team Palat makes a lot of sense. If you want to play the ufa game you have to accept the last couple of years of any of these contracts are rough. Teams move money every year, after everyone says they’ll never be able to do it.

I think you’d have a hard time finding a GM who if they had to choose between the contracts would choose Nurse over Dougie.

NJ isnt in their window now with that defense or goal-tending. They over-achieved last season. they are likely to take a step back with back half of their roster.

I think you would have a hard time finding GMs who would pay either Nurse or Dougie that much for that long. One did and that is all that matters.

 

[bleedgreen]

He was worth 8 last year and probably will be this upcoming year, but after that...? Also as much as I loved Dougie his playoff performance here was a concern and he did nothing to alleviate it last year with the Devils. That contract is definitely an anchor all things considered.

I think our need for Dougie to be some anchor is embarrassing. He got paid, he had earned a big contract, good for him. I root for him because he was a really great Hurricane, and I miss him. Nothing about him was more overblown than his playoffs here, which I thought he did really well at times and others he needed help. He had to learn how to not have Slavin in the playoffs, which would be rough on anyone and the damage his rep took from just those few games was not equivalent to whatever crime was committed there. We wouldn’t have gotten past Nashville without Dougie, he was the hero in the clinching game.

Almost all skill/offensive minded players who aren’t a Tkachuk type need help in the playoffs, and they almost always have their efficiency reduced. It’s not the same style. A guy like Dougie offensively becomes a pp specialist. I think their youth showed and they ran out of gas. It doesn’t reduce how great he played all season to get them there, he was really clutch all season.

I think we sound like petty main board fans when we talk about Dougie. If he was making 8 for us he’d still be a perfect fit. I think he’s perfect for them and y’all have to keep modifying your zingers every year. First he was a money grubbing merc who intentionally went to a team that clearly sucked (and was going to continue to) just for the payday even though many of pieces were already there. Wrong. Then, he was never going to be able to play at the same high level without Slavin and us to carry him. Wrong. Now all you’ve got is waiting every year for his play to slip so you can say you were right all along. It’s a lot of effort for a pretty limited payoff.

Better luck next year guys.