Around the League 2025-26 season

[Brownie to Pancakes]

A player of Spence's build is gonna get sonned now and again but overall he tilted the ice decisively in our favor. You keep players like that and build whatever homoerotic ideal of "toughness" you guys have elsewhere on the roster. Period

 

[Chaddeus Stevens]

The dude is soft as they come and it's hard to think those two guys are even softer. McKinnon last year hit Spence 3 times on the same shift, then danced around him and score. He had PTSD the rest of the season.

 

[Statto]

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Define ‘hit’… just interested in how you and everyone defines what a hit is.

 

[Chaddeus Stevens]

Define ‘hit’… just interested in how you and everyone defines what a hit is.

You, probably:

• "What is life, anyway?"
• "Is earth real?"
• "Are we living in a simulation?"

What an inane question for someone who apparently watches hockey, as if it's my definition that's at issue here. Here, knock yourself out: NHL Stats

Hits, Hits
Hits is the number of body checks delivered by a player on the opposing team's puck carrier. Hits is available since 1997-98.

Hits per 60 minutes, Hits/60
Player's average rate of hits per 60 minutes of ice time

 

[Statto]

Either way you go, his playoff numbers are crap compared to whatever he does in the regular season. I did his career totals, and everything before his big payday season. All of it is low.

As part of the analysis you need further context. Did his linemates perform better/worse, did his giveaways increase, x/G vary etc. The results matter, but so does why.

Without the extra context it’s hard to assess if it’s an Ehlers issue or more of a team one (of which he is a part). My impression is that it was, to some degree at least, a team issue given a large number of posters expected them to struggle in the PO, despite what they were doing in the regular season. The coveted Vilardi only had 1g in 9 games, Ehlers 5 in 8gp, leading the team based on having played fewer games than Connor (5g, 13gp) and Scheifele (5g, 11gp) . So the big picture is important, although I don’t have a meaningful view either way having not looked at all the details.

 

[Statto]

You, probably:

• "What is life, anyway?"
• "Is earth real?"
• "Are we living in a simulation?"

What an inane question for someone who apparently watches hockey, as if it's my definition that's at issue here. Here, knock yourself out: NHL Stats

Wow, ok.

It’s not an inane question because I’m telling you no team is giving a player credit for a hit when contact is made, if they just bounce off the guy they ‘body check’. Websites might, teams won’t.

I can’t tell you exactly what the team gives, but typically if you take yourself out of the play without separating man from puck, you won’t be getting credit for a hit. So the numbers the teams have/use will most likely vary quite a bit from nhl.com especially for the smaller players.

 

[Chaddeus Stevens]

Wow, ok.

It’s not an inane question because I’m telling you no team is giving a player credit for a hit when contact is made, if they just bounce off the guy they ‘body check’. Websites might, teams won’t.

I can’t tell you exactly what the team gives, but typically if you take yourself out of the play without separating man from puck, you won’t be getting credit for a hit. So the numbers the teams have/use will most likely vary quite a bit from nhl.com especially for the smaller players.

Yes, it is an excessively inane question, particularly when the contention at issue is that Spence is soft and the attendant implication is that Ceci isn't. Your suggestion that teams might (without actually providing empirical support, of course) have different numbers than the league website (from which other sites scrape data) offers nothing to counter or support the contention and implication.

Whether you look at the entire season, only home games, or only road games, Spence is consistently tracked as using his body against the puck carrier more than Ceci (i.e., hitting). Even more damning is that Ceci spent much more of his time in the defensive zone than Spence, which is a pretty good proxy for playing without the puck and having more opportunities to body-up a puck carrier (i.e., hitting).

And for someone who is supposedly a Kings fan who would have seemingly watched Spence the past several years, it would surprise me to learn that you think Spence was somehow notorious for taking himself out of the play in attempts to throw checks at players. If anything, Spence was consistently good at using his smaller frame to leverage puck carriers off pucks along the boards.

But because teams might have different numbers, Ceci is apparently physical and Spence soft, I guess?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Has anyone here watched Cody Ceci play for literally any length of time at all?

The next 'hit' he throws will be his first

If this forum was complaining about Gavrikov being big but not physical they're going to lose their shit on Ceci

And no I wouldn't call Spence a hitter but he's FAR more engaged physically and effective with his body. Him getting run over doesn't negate that. Maybe Ceci gets run over less but engages less too.

 

[King'sPawn]

Has anyone here watched Cody Ceci play for literally any length of time at all?

The next 'hit' he throws will be his first

If this forum was complaining about Gavrikov being big but not physical they're going to lose their shit on Ceci

And no I wouldn't call Spence a hitter but he's FAR more engaged physically and effective with his body. Him getting run over doesn't negate that. Maybe Ceci gets run over less but engages less too.

And people still don't realize how young Spence is. He's not big, but smaller players, especially defensemen, need to do more than build their physique. They need to learn how to leverage their bodies to separate the opponents from the puck along the boards.

Visnovsky had to learn that, and he STARTED in the NHL at the age Spence is now.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

And people still don't realize how young Spence is. He's not big, but smaller players, especially defensemen, need to do more than build their physique. They need to learn how to leverage their bodies to separate the opponents from the puck along the boards.

Visnovsky had to learn that, and he STARTED in the NHL at the age Spence is now.

Visnovsky was 15lbs heavier than Spence.

 

[KingsFan7824]

And people still don't realize how young Spence is. He's not big, but smaller players, especially defensemen, need to do more than build their physique. They need to learn how to leverage their bodies to separate the opponents from the puck along the boards.

Visnovsky had to learn that, and he STARTED in the NHL at the age Spence is now.

Bigger players, especially defensemen, need to do more to build their physique. All those larger projects, like Byfield. Or Karlsson. Or Biron. Or whoever else. It's all the same stuff.

By 24, you know what these are going to be. Other than the rare true late bloomer, Spence is what he is. One of the smaller defensemen on the team, and we criticized the team for being small on defense.

 

[Chaddeus Stevens]

Bigger players, especially defensemen, need to do more to build their physique. All those larger projects, like Byfield. Or Karlsson. Or Biron. Or whoever else. It's all the same stuff.

By 24, you know what these are going to be. Other than the rare true late bloomer, Spence is what he is. One of the smaller defensemen on the team, and we criticized the team for being small on defense.

“We” did?

 

[KingsFan7824]

“We” did?

That's right. This board wasn't on Blake's ass the last few years for building the team the way it was built. Nor has it been looking at Florida bullying everyone, and saying, yes, we need guys under 6-0 tall.

 

[Chaddeus Stevens]

That's right. This board wasn't on Blake's ass the last few years for building the team the way it was built. Nor has it been looking at Florida bullying everyone, and saying, yes, we need guys under 6-0 tall.

I’m sure you have collected many posts from a majority of posters saying that Spence should be discarded because he’s too small, right?

 

[KingsFan7824]

I’m sure you have collected many posts from a majority of posters saying that Spence should be discarded because he’s too small, right?

If the defense was too small to withstand the rigors of playoff hockey, Spence should be one of the first to go.

Are we really playing this game? The Kings haven't been criticized for being too small?

 

[Chaddeus Stevens]

If the defense was too small to withstand the rigors of playoff hockey, Spence should be one of the first to go.

Are we really playing this game? The Kings haven't been criticized for being too small?

Small? No. Soft and lacking mental fortitude? Only every other Johnny Utah or bland post. You’re conflating the criticisms about team toughness and having a penchant for wilting under the slightest pressure with being small. You’re, once again, building up a strawman for you to bat away based on some inscrutable ulterior motive you seem to have about team building under Lombardi, Blake, and now Holland.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Small? No. Soft and lacking mental fortitude? Only every other Johnny Utah or bland post. You’re conflating the criticisms about team toughness and having a penchant for wilting under the slightest pressure with being small. You’re, once again, building up a strawman for you to bat away based on some inscrutable ulterior motive you seem to have about team building under Lombardi, Blake, and now Holland.

And Spence was part of all that. If being 6-3 will make Hiller play a 3rd pair, then that's how it's gotta be.

 

[Chaddeus Stevens]

And Spence was part of all that. If being 6-3 will make Hiller play a 3rd pair, then that's how it's gotta be.

Weird how you went from "everyone said Spence is too small and everyone said the Kings are too small" (which, of course, isn't something everyone has been saying) to "Spence is a big part of the problem based on criticisms I didn't actually put forth and no person worth taking seriously has said about Spence" in just a few posts.

Although you've apparently abandoned your ventriloquized argument about the Kings being too small, here's evidence to the contrary in case you decide to use it again:

Sizing up the NHL: Analyzing 2024-25 teams by age, height, weight and nationality

It's been a few years since The Athletic's last demographics breakdown and league composition has shifted in the meantime.

www.nytimes.com

 

[KingsFan7824]

Weird how you went from "everyone said Spence is too small and everyone said the Kings are too small" (which, of course, isn't something everyone has been saying) to "Spence is a big part of the problem based on criticisms I didn't actually put forth and no person worth taking seriously has said about Spence" in just a few posts.

Although you've apparently abandoned your ventriloquized argument about the Kings being too small, here's evidence to the contrary in case you decide to use it again:

Sizing up the NHL: Analyzing 2024-25 teams by age, height, weight and nationality

It's been a few years since The Athletic's last demographics breakdown and league composition has shifted in the meantime.

www.nytimes.com

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View attachment 1062142

Next you'll tell me that people haven't been complaining about Kopitar and Doughty being here for the last 10 years.

 

[Chaddeus Stevens]

Next you'll tell me that people haven't been complaining about Kopitar and Doughty being here for the last 10 years.

And why would I do that considering it is actually something a number of people here have complained about?

 

[kingsfan28]

Visnovsky was 15lbs heavier than Spence.

And from the Russian getto . The dude could throw if needed.

Edit; Slovakian getto

 

[DoktorJeep]

Is Gavrikov the #1 c u fckn later loss of all time? The guy would rather live in a 1500 sq ft pent house than play for Jim Hiller and behind Drew Doughty. In that light, hard to blame him for the choice.

 

[KingsHockey24]

I read somewhere that the Kings were interested in Byram still?

How would this work? Who moves out?

 

[santiclaws]

And from the Russian getto . The dude could throw if needed.

He wasn't Russian

 

[kingsfan28]

He wasn't Russian

My bad. Slovakian getto.