Around the League 2022-23 season thread - part II

[HBK27]

Yeah it's f***ing ironic from the same fanbase that has a "Rangers suck, Flyers swallow and Crosby watches chant" every game being worried about what is being shoved into their faces at a game.

So all of the fanbase is now responsible for the actions of a few?

I personally despise that chant, which one of my kids would attempt to repeat at a young age before he knew what any of it meant.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Correct, Chilling Dissent. Very effective tactics.

"I get to say what I want but other people have to let me without criticism" isn't a system that works. It's "freedom for me but not for thee."

You're chilling my right to call people bigots,

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I wouldn’t actually. He wasn’t born here. He has no obligation to support a foreign military or police force.

There's been screenshots of a Provorov military appreciation jersey that was sold by the Flyers as an auction, so he clearly does support them.

 

[glenwo2]

That's a stretch.

sigh....yeah.

It really is.

We don't really know what Provorov's own thoughts are nor should we pretend to know.

Only thing we do know is that he sucks as a Defenseman.

THAT should be the focus. lol

 

[mdj12784]

There's been screenshots of a Provorov military appreciation jersey that was sold by the Flyers as an auction, so he clearly does support them.

I meant Hischier since ZBC brought him up

 

[Guttersniped]

All in all, I think it's a lame move and I also think he misunderstood the assignment and perhaps his religion as well.

Like, the whole stated point of these nights is to show underrepresented and marginalized communities that they're welcome to play and enjoy hockey.

And this dude is like, my religion doesn't allow that.

I'm no Russian Orthodox expert, but I'd be willing to bet that it doesn't mention anything about welcoming the LGBTQ community to play hockey with you. Probably doesn't say that you can't wear a rainbow jersey. I've read the Bible and I could have missed those parts, sure, or maybe they translate differently.

Total lack of nuance here from Provorov. No one's saying you have to be gay or anything, just that the door's open for gay folk to play hockey, too. Your religion doesn't say anything about a Pride night in Philadelphia.

Just to be clear I’m pissy because this is politicized Religion.

Homophobia and the Culture Wars have been best pals for decades and it’s been a real blast dealing with it for my entire adult life.

That’s why have zero tolerance for JAQOFFs with this sort of stuff. And if you’re a civilian and actually don’t know this bullshit, it’s too hard and headachy to unpack for this dumb news item.

Just the worst stuff is being said in the wild over this, god bless moderated sites.

 

[HBK27]

Then that's fine, it's either all or nothing except I'd be remiss to not mention that one is a choice (job) v just being simply existing. But it's all or nothing within sports in regards with politics.

I thought we had a deal? Don't start trying to add fine print in after the fact - scrap all these stupid theme nights.

There's been screenshots of a Provorov military appreciation jersey that was sold by the Flyers as an auction, so he clearly does support them.

And...?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I thought we had a deal? Don't start trying to add fine print in after the fact - scrap all these stupid theme nights.

Hey I'm agreeing with you man but there's a still a slight difference between them. Have all of them or scrap all of them.

 

[NJDevs26]

sigh....yeah.

It really is.

We don't really know what Provorov's own thoughts are nor should we pretend to know.

Only thing we do know is that he sucks as a Defenseman.

THAT should be the focus. lol

That and the hilarity over the Flyers (and Provorov) even letting this get out there. They could easily have come to an agreement not to let this get public and throw out a phony baloney excuse over why he didn’t take warmups but clearly he or the Flyers thought it was better to air the dirty laundry in the first place with no real benefit to anyone, especially if his trade value tanks over this

 

[MasterofGrond]

That and the hilarity over the Flyers (and Provorov) even letting this get out there. They could easily have come to an agreement not to let this get public and throw out a phony baloney excuse over why he didn’t take warmups but clearly he or the Flyers thought it was better to air the dirty laundry in the first place with no real benefit to anyone, especially if his trade value tanks over this

to be fair, he'd need to have trade value for his trade value to tank

 

[Tundra]

If you had to hang out with Provorov or Sebastian Bach. Who would you choose?

 

[njdevils1982]

george carlin would've had a field day with all of this

 

[OmNomNom]

PSA

be careful about labelling a whole religion -- you don't know what peoples' beliefs are in here, and we've already technically personally attacked someones' beliefs. Provorov's beliefs doesn't == all Russian Orthodox Christians and vice versa

 

[HBK27]

That and the hilarity over the Flyers (and Provorov) even letting this get out there. They could easily have come to an agreement not to let this get public and throw out a phony baloney excuse over why he didn’t take warmups but clearly he or the Flyers thought it was better to air the dirty laundry in the first place with no real benefit to anyone, especially if his trade value tanks over this

I don't think there was any way to avoid it coming out (ba-dum-tss) and trying to cover it up would've made the Flyers look worse.

 

[My3Sons]

Ultimately it may make you feel better blasting someone for what you consider an exclusionary or bigoted point of view but it will almost certainly not harm the other person or change their mind. If people were truly upset with Provorov I’d expect them to first try to learn to understand his views with some depth and then try to have communication aimed at exploring his beliefs and hopefully modifying them or at least understand what he was/was not attempting to say. My guess is that he is not beyond reason but would you agree with anyone just reflexively vilifying you even if you were wrong on some level? Communication and compassion might work. Harassment and threats almost certainly won’t and at a a certain point cross the line to criminal activity depending upon the threat.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Ultimately it may make you feel better blasting someone for what you consider an exclusionary or bigoted point of view but it will almost certainly not harm the other person or change their mind. If people were truly upset with Provorov I’d expect them to first try to learn to understand his views with some depth and then try to have communication aimed at exploring his beliefs and hopefully modifying them or at least understand what he was/was not attempting to say. My guess is that he is not beyond reason but would you agree with anyone just reflexively vilifying you even if you were wrong on some level? Communication and compassion might work. Harassment and threats almost certainly won’t at a a certain point cross the line to criminal activity depending upon the threat.

Sure. And if I knew the guy we'd be having a talk about this over a few beers.

But I don't, so I don't have any opportunity or responsibility to educate him I get to simply be mad on a message board and maybe making a disparaging tweet.

 

[OmNomNom]

honestly painting people in broad brushstrokes is what we do in the 21st century lol

hell i know i do it, it's america's new favorite pastime

 

[Satans Hockey]

real world cultural impacts to his familiy. i'm saying it again as people are ignoring that.

russian orthodoxy in its most extreme could have implications for him. not 100% certain, but it's not a 0%

i don't see people still giving ovechkin and other russians shit for not denouncing putin since everyone understood that had implications for family, so why is this so hard to apply it to

These are pretty recent...

Alex Ovechkin’s unabashed Putin support clouds his pursuit of NHL history

It is impossible to celebrate Ovechkin the man, who for years not only publicly aligned himself with the genocidal Russian president Vladimir Putin and his policies, but attempted to lead a movemen…

nypost.com

Alex Ovechkin's support of Vladimir Putin makes his legacy complicated

The hockey legacy of Alexander Mikhailovich Ovechkin is set in stone. Drafted in 2004, he's regarded as one of the greatest players of his generation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Opinion | Putin-supporting Ovechkin should not be allowed to chase Howe, Gretzky records

The NHL should recognize that the suffering brought about by Putin, who Ovechkin still supports, violates the league’s standard morality clause.

www.thestar.com

 

[njdevil26]

I think the thing the Flyers should be pissed about is that it undermined a message the team and organization was trying to send... and if caused people like me, a non-Flyers fan, to have no idea who they played last night or if they won or not... but I am very aware that a player threw a hissy fit over a pride warmup jersey and refused to take part.

When was the last time in the NHL a player decided not to take warmups for personal reasons?

Let alone this dude has 5 pts in 20 games and is essentially available to be moved because he's not a valuable player on the team anymore.

THAT guy made a spectacle of himself.

 

[OmNomNom]

These are pretty recent...

Alex Ovechkin’s unabashed Putin support clouds his pursuit of NHL history

It is impossible to celebrate Ovechkin the man, who for years not only publicly aligned himself with the genocidal Russian president Vladimir Putin and his policies, but attempted to lead a movemen…

nypost.com

Alex Ovechkin's support of Vladimir Putin makes his legacy complicated

The hockey legacy of Alexander Mikhailovich Ovechkin is set in stone. Drafted in 2004, he's regarded as one of the greatest players of his generation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Opinion | Putin-supporting Ovechkin should not be allowed to chase Howe, Gretzky records

The NHL should recognize that the suffering brought about by Putin, who Ovechkin still supports, violates the league’s standard morality clause.

www.thestar.com

fairrrrrrrr, but i don't see the public talking about it anymore (like on reddit). most things you see are good/positive about him smashing records

 

[Saugus]

george carlin would've had a field day with all of this

Oh boy, would he ever. This whole fiasco reminds me of his 2 Commandments bit:

 

[Satans Hockey]

Yeah it's f***ing ironic from the same fanbase that has a "Rangers suck, Flyers swallow and Crosby watches chant" every game being worried about what is being shoved into their faces at a game.

That topic has been beaten to death but there are tons of Devils fans that do not like those chants, especially the Flyers and Crosby part of that. I'm pretty sure it safe to say the vast majority do not like the Flyers/Crosby part because the Rangers part is significantly louder.

 

[glenwo2]

"I get to say what I want but other people have to let me without criticism" isn't a system that works. It's "freedom for me but not for thee."

You're chilling my right to call people bigots,

Are you talking to Tundra or are you talking to me?

'Cause the bolded above is exactly what I'm NOT doing here.

I'm just illustrating the REALITY of the situation today where players have to show support PUBLICALLY (and keep all their private opinions shoved in a dark corner where no one but them can see it) to keep things running smoothly, as they say.

How many players do you think have the same "attitude" as Provorov but keep quiet so as to not damage any future earnings or contract negotiations with other teams?

I mean Tony D isn't exactly an angel, for example. He's shown his support but is he really supporting this or is he simply "keeping his mouth shut, head down, and trying not to make any waves"?


Anyway, this is one long-ass discussion that is not fun at all.

I want to get back to Hockey talk.

To Devils talk.

So I'll just leave this conversation as is.

 

[Satans Hockey]

fairrrrrrrr, but i don't see the public talking about it anymore (like on reddit). most things you see are good/positive about him smashing records

I don't browse the main board or reddit enough to give an opinion about what the general fan thinks of it.

I just hope he doesn't score it against us if he breaks it. I didn't like that our fans cheered for his 700th goal and I wouldn't have cheered anyone scoring against us, no matter what number goal it is for them, period.

I'm definitely in the minority that these days I really only care about the Devils and care f*** all about the rest of the league though.

 

[glenwo2]

One more thing...

Nobody want to comment on the below article?

NHL says players can decide what causes to support after Provorov boycotts Flyers’ Pride night

Philadelphia Flyers defenceman Ivan Provorov says he didn’t warm up with teammates ahead of his team’s Pride Night because of his Russian Orthodox beliefs

www.theglobeandmail.com

Well now.... that's certainly...something.

So the NHL is saying players can decide what causes to support.

It kind of puts a bit of a loose screw in things, I think.

Or at the very least, it shows that the NHL doesn't really give two s--ts about the LGBTQ+ whatsoever....Only what's in their bank accounts.

Okay I'm done with this subject.