Around the League 2016:World Cup Edition

[Minor Boarding]

I think Dean went Joe Boyd in the spring of 2012. And returned to being Dean Lombardi in June 2014.

How dare you question Mr. Lombardi for his recent decisions/moves when his team won just a a few years ago? I mean that's the mantra here lately. With all due, damacles1156 but it's time to call it how it is.

- Soft Erhoff UFA traded for Scuderi (soft, slow and broken down to AHL level). = BAD TRADE

- Kris Versteeg for Valentin Zykov, Conditional 5th round pick
= GOOD TRADE but then we let the guy go and signed Purcell

- Milan Lucic with 1 year left on his contract for Martin Jones, Colin Miller, 2015 1st round pick
= SERIOUSLY? HORRIBLE TRADE

And for humor purpose: The team is up against the CAP, Purcell/Brown will be in the top6, the defense has 3 players that can be regularly counted on and a bunch of roller-coaster guys (Benny Hill theme) who should see little TOI to be effective. Other then Quick, our goaltenders in the pipeline are weak and we don't have a true top6 prospect (Kempe isn't exactly tearing up the AHL so NO).

The Kings are like team USA, some decent players here but not a lot of depth on offense, slow immobile defense and zero creativity (cement hands only) through half of the roster...
I expect an interesting season and God help us for Doughty or Muzzin to have a season without any injury that would take them out for more then a couple of weeks.

 

[Herby]

How dare you question Mr. Lombardi for his recent decisions/moves when his team won just a a few years ago? I mean that's the mantra here lately. With all due, damacles1156 but it's time to call it how it is.

- Soft Erhoff UFA traded for Scuderi (soft, slow and broken down to AHL level). = BAD TRADE

- Kris Versteeg for Valentin Zykov, Conditional 5th round pick
= GOOD TRADE but then we let the guy go and signed Purcell

- Milan Lucic with 1 year left on his contract for Martin Jones, Colin Miller, 2015 1st round pick
= SERIOUSLY? HORRIBLE TRADE

And for humor purpose: The team is up against the CAP, Purcell/Brown will be in the top6, the defense has 3 players that can be regularly counted on and a bunch of roller-coaster guys (Benny Hill theme) who should see little TOI to be effective. Other then Quick, our goaltenders in the pipeline are weak and we don't have a true top6 prospect (Kempe isn't exactly tearing up the AHL so NO).

The Kings are like team USA, some decent players here but not a lot of depth on offense, slow immobile defense and zero creativity (cement hands only) through half of the roster...
I expect an interesting season and God help us for Doughty or Muzzin to have a season without any injury that would take them out for more then a couple of weeks.

Basically, every significant move Dean has made since Martinez scored on Lundqvist has been bad, with some being disasters. And now that has carried over to the national team, this roster was embarrassing, and he should not be involved in any way with choosing the 2018 Olympic team.

Take nothing away from what he did from June 2011 to June 2014. But anyone who tries to defend the moves since then is nothing but a homer. He has been without question a bottom five GM the last two seasons/three off-seasons, this is a very big year for both him and Sutter.

 

[Minor Boarding]

Basically, every significant move Dean has made since Martinez scored on Lundqvist has been bad, with some being disasters. And now that has carried over to the national team, this roster was embarrassing, and he should not be involved in any way with choosing the 2018 Olympic team.

Take nothing away from what he did from June 2011 to June 2014. But anyone who tries to defend the moves since then is nothing but a homer. He has been without question a bottom five GM the last two seasons/three off-seasons, this is a very big year for both him and Sutter.

To be fair the LeCavalier, Schenn was a decent low cost depth move...
Other then that I agree with you. Lombardi needs to show something good in the next two years (drafting, trading, signing) or he's going to see the door...

 

[KingsFan7824]

Basically, every significant move Dean has made since Martinez scored on Lundqvist has been bad, with some being disasters. And now that has carried over to the national team, this roster was embarrassing, and he should not be involved in any way with choosing the 2018 Olympic team.

Take nothing away from what he did from June 2011 to June 2014. But anyone who tries to defend the moves since then is nothing but a homer. He has been without question a bottom five GM the last two seasons/three off-seasons, this is a very big year for both him and Sutter.

You also have to look at the context of those moves. After 2014, there's probably a mindset of they can do anything if there's a chance. Can't downplay the loss of Voynov. No Voynov means they target Sekera more than they would with Voynov. Missing the playoffs in 14-15 means the 1st round pick to Carolina goes to 2016, and you don't want to give a team a lottery pick, so you want to make the playoffs in 2016, and Lucic helped do that.

Now they're got 1 playoff win in 2 seasons, and a bunch of big contracts.

 

[deeshamrock]

What blueprint would you like the Kings to flip a switch too ? Cause it would require a tear down.

The Sharks ? Produced zero cups and a decade of playoff embarrassment

Pitt ? They fired their GM from 2006-2014(also the coach), It took a roster no one predicted would do serious play-offs damage, and a stellar performance from a young Goalie.

Hawks ? Who went out first round

What blueprint[ would you like to see ?

Don't say Detroit, just don't


I am all for adding some more speed/skill, but it's not going to happen tomorrow, or this coming season. In a cap world, you have to draft and develop speed/skill.

Cause every single team in the NHL wants it. Also every single NHL team tries to avoid letting their own speed/skill players from hitting UFA.

Pens are my least favorite team in pro sports...but disagree with your assessment. For me, the biggest factor were 2 things you didn't mention, the coaching change and the deadline moves. MIke Sullivan came in, saw what he had and made a system that worked effectively using speed. And getting Bonino and Hagelin , two fast skaters and creating a 3rd line that gave every team they played in the playoffs matchup issues, was the key to success.

Blueprint- something other that grit and weight being at the top of the 'what we look for' in the draft list. After this debacle, and being beaten by speedier teams over the last 2 yrs, hopefully, DL recognizes he has to change his ways. Tough for him, I'm sure, he has a certain philosophy and it won't be easy. But his moves over the last 2 yrs, have been brutal. Giving up Zykov for a couple months of Versteeg made no sense. Again, sacrificing for a rental Like the yr before, he simply couldn't see that the Kings were not legit Cup contenders. Trading youth for that 'quick fix' again.
And aborting the first round picks 2 yrs in a row, now he has no #1 center candidate in the pipeline and Kopi is 29. That's too large of a gap. Even if they pick one next yr, that kid is 18 and at least 3 yrs out (by Kings growth plan) and Kopi will be 30. Just not good planning.

Now he has the team he deserves..and it will take years and perhaps a different drafting philosophy, to get some sleek new thoroughbreds and maybe it won't come to fruition in his reign but it has to start this year.

 

[deeshamrock]

Team Europe looks terrible in the first couple games, but now looks like an actual team. Team USA looks at least decent in the first couple games, but end up disjointed, and the worst team in the games that have actually meant something in the World Cup.

Yes, they do, I read somewhere that the quite a few of the players arrived late and they were already playing in the prelim round without the benefit of practice time. Since then, practicing together has helped and it shows.
Gabby has looked great...

 

[deeshamrock]

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 14m14 minutes ago

Gibson for NA. Murray is not dressed (injury). Ryan Murray will take warmup. If he can't go? "Play the game," Todd McLellan says

Should be a good game this afternoon


Rob Mixer Verified account
‏@RobMixer

JD: David Clarkson failed his physical and will NOT start camp with the team. #CBJ

Boy that team has some bad contracts...between him, Hartnell and Campbell, that's about 12 M I think

 

[mattgkg]

that's so lumbus. they should have traded horton for brown if they wanted a warm body instead of just the cap hit.

 

[deeshamrock]

I didn't like the makeup of Team USA and leaving some pretty legit goal scorers on the shelf, but naming Torts as coach was a huge mistake. Not a fan of this NHL coaching but IMO coaching in a tournament is not the same as an 82 game schedule. This team had no pulse from the first drop of the puck. Granted if the NHL is in the 2018 (and that is a big ?, Bettman not in favor) there will be a lot of talent available and hopefully, a better braintrust involved.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Pens are my least favorite team in pro sports...but disagree with your assessment. For me, the biggest factor were 2 things you didn't mention, the coaching change and the deadline moves. MIke Sullivan came in, saw what he had and made a system that worked effectively using speed. And getting Bonino and Hagelin , two fast skaters and creating a 3rd line that gave every team they played in the playoffs matchup issues, was the key to success.

Blueprint- something other that grit and weight being at the top of the 'what we look for' in the draft list. After this debacle, and being beaten by speedier teams over the last 2 yrs, hopefully, DL recognizes he has to change his ways. Tough for him, I'm sure, he has a certain philosophy and it won't be easy. But his moves over the last 2 yrs, have been brutal. Giving up Zykov for a couple months of Versteeg made no sense. Again, sacrificing for a rental Like the yr before, he simply couldn't see that the Kings were not legit Cup contenders. Trading youth for that 'quick fix' again.
And aborting the first round picks 2 yrs in a row, now he has no #1 center candidate in the pipeline and Kopi is 29. That's too large of a gap. Even if they pick one next yr, that kid is 18 and at least 3 yrs out (by Kings growth plan) and Kopi will be 30. Just not good planning.

Now he has the team he deserves..and it will take years and perhaps a different drafting philosophy, to get some sleek new thoroughbreds and maybe it won't come to fruition in his reign but it has to start this year.

Not good planning? I think we sometimes expect too much perfection. There's no planning for Voynov. There's no planning that Richards will completely break down into a non-NHL forward just a couple years after you get him for Simmonds and Schenn. He wasn't planning on Brown falling to 11 goals a year as soon as he signed him to that new contract.

The Kings lucked out when they got Kopitar 11th overall. You don't draft a #1 center candidate every year. You can't. You're more likely to not draft one than to draft one at all. A succession plan where as Kopitar gets older, you just slide the next all world young #1 center into his place? If only it was that easy.

that's so lumbus. they should have traded horton for brown if they wanted a warm body instead of just the cap hit.

Clarkson, $5.25m until 2020.
Brown, $5.875m until 2022.

They're both in the running for the worst contracts in the league for various reasons, but you can make an argument that Brown's contract is worse. At least Clarkson's ends before Brown's does, and Columbus hasn't been trying to keep a team at a Cup level with the terrible contract blocking potential avenues.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I didn't like the makeup of Team USA and leaving some pretty legit goal scorers on the shelf, but naming Torts as coach was a huge mistake. Not a fan of this NHL coaching but IMO coaching in a tournament is not the same as an 82 game schedule. This team had no pulse from the first drop of the puck. Granted if the NHL is in the 2018 (and that is a big ?, Bettman not in favor) there will be a lot of talent available and hopefully, a better braintrust involved.

I guess motivation is a weird and elusive thing. Even if they hated their coach, or their unskilled teammates, or thought they had no chance, or didn't like the tournament itself, you could still play the game. They went after Canada in those first two pre-tournament games, and then nothing after that. It's not like it was a month later and you lose the momentum. Seems weird how that can happen.

 

[Trolfoli]

I still don't have a problem with the Lucic trade. Lombardi made the trade before he knew Voynov was getting booted back to Russia. It would have been nice to be able to wait and find out what was going to happen with Voynov, but the trade couldn't be put on hold that long. Adding Lucic and getting Voynov would have put this team close to being in contention for the cup. Lombardi was in a tough spot and took a shot to win it all. It doesn't look like he'll be that close again for some time. I don't have a problem with taking a shot while it was there.

 

[deeshamrock]

Not good planning? I think we sometimes expect too much perfection. There's no planning for Voynov. There's no planning that Richards will completely break down into a non-NHL forward just a couple years after you get him for Simmonds and Schenn. He wasn't planning on Brown falling to 11 goals a year as soon as he signed him to that new contract.

The Kings lucked out when they got Kopitar 11th overall. You don't draft a #1 center candidate every year. You can't. You're more likely to not draft one than to draft one at all. A succession plan where as Kopitar gets older, you just slide the next all world young #1 center into his place? If only it was that easy.



Clarkson, $5.25m until 2020.
Brown, $5.875m until 2022.

They're both in the running for the worst contracts in the league for various reasons, but you can make an argument that Brown's contract is worse. At least Clarkson's ends before Brown's does, and Columbus hasn't been trying to keep a team at a Cup level with the terrible contract blocking potential avenues.

I didn't say you 'draft a #1 center every year' and drafting a center at the right time to take over for Kopitar, or whoever the teams' top center is, does require a plan, any good GM knows that. DL should have done that two years ago, so that kid would be 20 now and 2 yrs out, hitting the Kings as rookie when Kopitar is 31, giving the kid a couple years to get experience.

not drafting one at all, when you top center is 29? That's just piss poor or lack of planning..

I have the same argument for the Flyers, Homer never had a plan and Giroux is 29 and the Flyers don't have a top scoring center in the farm yet. Maybe this year...

 

[KingsFan7824]

I didn't say you 'draft a #1 center every year' and drafting a center at the right time to take over for Kopitar, or whoever the teams' top center is, does require a plan, any good GM knows that. DL should have done that two years ago, so that kid would be 20 now and 2 yrs out, hitting the Kings as rookie when Kopitar is 31, giving the kid a couple years to get experience.

not drafting one at all, when you top center is 29? That's just piss poor or lack of planning..

I have the same argument for the Flyers, Homer never had a plan and Giroux is 29 and the Flyers don't have a top scoring center in the farm yet. Maybe this year...

Ok, well they drafted Amadio and Dergachyov within the last few years. Considering where they've been drafting, and how often, because they've been trying to take as many shots as they can with a core that has already won, I don't know how much better they could've done, outside of lucking out. Maybe draft more centers, but there are plenty of other weak positions within the systems too.

 

[Omni Owl]

I'm not sure how anyone can defend the Lucic trade, that had disaster written all over it from the very beginning. Not to mention that trading for Looch is the definition of poor asset management, something I thought DL would understand.

I'm also sick of the org drafting Russians, it clearly isn't working out. They should look more towards the Scandinavian countries for talent...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm not sure how anyone can defend the Lucic trade, that had disaster written all over it from the very beginning. Not to mention that trading for Looch is the definition of poor asset management, something I thought DL would understand.

I'm also sick of the org drafting Russians, it clearly isn't working out. They should look more towards the Scandinavian countries for talent...

The Lucic trade wouldn't have been so bad had they re-signed him, but not at the contract Edmonton gave him. They took to long to make that determination, which was foolish considering what they gave up to obtain him.

Lombardi hasn't made any great decisions in a long time. Re-signing his own players aside, his trades since the 2014-15 season will likely set the team back by a few years.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Pens are my least favorite team in pro sports...but disagree with your assessment. For me, the biggest factor were 2 things you didn't mention, the coaching change and the deadline moves. MIke Sullivan came in, saw what he had and made a system that worked effectively using speed. And getting Bonino and Hagelin , two fast skaters and creating a 3rd line that gave every team they played in the playoffs matchup issues, was the key to success.

Blueprint- something other that grit and weight being at the top of the 'what we look for' in the draft list. After this debacle, and being beaten by speedier teams over the last 2 yrs, hopefully, DL recognizes he has to change his ways. Tough for him, I'm sure, he has a certain philosophy and it won't be easy. But his moves over the last 2 yrs, have been brutal. Giving up Zykov for a couple months of Versteeg made no sense. Again, sacrificing for a rental Like the yr before, he simply couldn't see that the Kings were not legit Cup contenders. Trading youth for that 'quick fix' again.
And aborting the first round picks 2 yrs in a row, now he has no #1 center candidate in the pipeline and Kopi is 29. That's too large of a gap. Even if they pick one next yr, that kid is 18 and at least 3 yrs out (by Kings growth plan) and Kopi will be 30. Just not good planning.

Now he has the team he deserves..and it will take years and perhaps a different drafting philosophy, to get some sleek new thoroughbreds and maybe it won't come to fruition in his reign but it has to start this year.

To have those 2 first round picks back. Of course, if the gambles had paid off, it wouldn't seem so bad now, but to gamble big and lose (Sekera) and then immediately gamble big again on someone who fit but wanted a huge retirement contract that we knew we couldn't give him (Lucic)...

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

The Lucic trade wouldn't have been so bad had they re-signed him, but not at the contract Edmonton gave him. They took to long to make that determination, which was foolish considering what they gave up to obtain him.

Lombardi hasn't made any great decisions in a long time. Re-signing his own players aside, his trades since the 2014-15 season will likely set the team back by a few years.

What did Dean realistically think Lucic would sign for though? Isn't that part of the reason why Boston traded him? Because they knew his contract demands were something they didn't want to meet. Or was Dean really that arrogant thinking the Kings would go deep in the playoffs and Lucic would take a big discount to stay? Everyone knew some team would throw 6+ years and $6+ million at him. That was likely the starting point of negotiations. He wasn't going to take less than what Brown is making.

 

[Trolfoli]

I'm not sure how anyone can defend the Lucic trade, that had disaster written all over it from the very beginning. Not to mention that trading for Looch is the definition of poor asset management, something I thought DL would understand.

I'm also sick of the org drafting Russians, it clearly isn't working out. They should look more towards the Scandinavian countries for talent...

I don't know how you can't see it.

He was a great addition to the team. The Kings were/are on the back side of peaking. Last year was probably one of the best last shots the Kings had to go for the cup. There's no guaranty that the Kings will get that close again for 10-20 years. Lombardi took a shot when it was there.

"poor asset management"? Nothing Lombardi gave up makes the Kings a contender this year or next year. If they aren't going to be that close again for a decade... who really cares?

Not re-signing Lucic was fine. Lombardi realized that the team is a couple years out, if everything goes perfect, from competing. It's likely that Lucic would be turning into Brown 2.0 at that point. If the Kings were going to be competing for the next 3 years it would make sense to resign Lucic.

 

[Trolfoli]

What did Dean realistically think Lucic would sign for though? Isn't that part of the reason why Boston traded him? Because they knew his contract demands were something they didn't want to meet. Or was Dean really that arrogant thinking the Kings would go deep in the playoffs and Lucic would take a big discount to stay? Everyone knew some team would throw 6+ years and $6+ million at him. That was likely the starting point of negotiations. He wasn't going to take less than what Brown is making.

Lucic signed for 200K more then Brown and 1 year longer at this point in the contracts. He's easily worth Brown money.

I think it's more Lucic didn't fit the next Kings window. Which isn't this year or next year.

 

[Omni Owl]

I don't know how you can't see it.

He was a great addition to the team. The Kings were/are on the back side of peaking. Last year was probably one of the best last shots the Kings had to go for the cup. There's no guaranty that the Kings will get that close again for 10-20 years. Lombardi took a shot when it was there.

"poor asset management"? Nothing Lombardi gave up makes the Kings a contender this year or next year. If they aren't going to be that close again for a decade... who really cares?

Not re-signing Lucic was fine. Lombardi realized that the team is a couple years out, if everything goes perfect, from competing. It's likely that Lucic would be turning into Brown 2.0 at that point. If the Kings were going to be competing for the next 3 years it would make sense to resign Lucic.

He went after a winger when there were glaring holes on defense and at center, 2 positions that are more important than LW. Kyle Connor, C. Miller, and Jones are some pretty big ****ing pieces to lose for 1 year of Lucic. At least we didn't re-sign him...

 

[AlphaBravo]

The Lucic trade was a good deal at the time it was made. When you are a contender, you have to be willing to take those risks. Now, obviously, things are different. We clearly are not contenders, and it is best to keep our draft picks to bring in younger players.

Also, although we needed a top 4 defenseman at the time more than a winger like Lucic, good options were not available last summer and the cost of getting one in a trade would be huge (i.e., Toffoli going back the other way).

The one mistake I think DL made was not resigning Sekera instead of trading for Lucic. But, from what I can recall, the Voynov situation was still up the air at that time. Regardless, I would have rather DL sign Sekera even with the situation hanging over his head.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Lucic signed for 200K more then Brown and 1 year longer at this point in the contracts. He's easily worth Brown money.

I think it's more Lucic didn't fit the next Kings window. Which isn't this year or next year.

I understand that but what I was saying is that if the rumors are true, how can Dean expect Lucic to accept those deals? Wasn't it something like 5 years, $5.5 million and 8 years, $4.875 million? No chance Lucic was taking those.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

The Lucic trade was always going to be a lose-lose. Either Lucic plays well, and earns a big payday that we can't afford because of Captain Albatross. Or he plays poorly to middling, and at that point, do we just let him walk?

In Lombardi's defense, he was playing with half a hand, considering the unknowns of the Voynov situation at the time. But even then, do you really make the gamble on Lucic? Was the team really one Lucic away from a championship? Lombardi obviously thought so.

Personally, I've lost my faith in Lombardi. He's been burned too many times over the past three years to think rationally. We should have kept Justin Williams at what Washington signed him for. I don't see any reason to trade assets for a Lucic when that was never going to put us over the top, anyway. Keep Williams, trade your assets for something else. Williams is not the player he was in 2012, but he wouldn't have been any worse than Purcell. And that's basically what we've gone to: Williams to Purcell.

A lot of mismanaged assets over the past three years.

 

[deeshamrock]

The Lucic trade wouldn't have been so bad had they re-signed him, but not at the contract Edmonton gave him. They took to long to make that determination, which was foolish considering what they gave up to obtain him.

Lombardi hasn't made any great decisions in a long time. Re-signing his own players aside, his trades since the 2014-15 season will likely set the team back by a few years.

Except that wasn't going to happen and DL knew that when he made that trade. Lucic wanted an LTC at 7 per , so Boston unloaded him. He wasn't going to sign for less. That was a strictly want over need decision, the player DL 'wanted' (coveted was the word he used ) rather than needed (a 3rd line center would have made more sense). Pearson was already here, he could have been given those minutes and time on wing.
Given what they gave up , had he attempted to use those assets in a different route, it would have made more sense. You don't know until you ask. It only took Larrson to get Taylor Hall.

Deeds done, but hopefully he learned his lesson. You reap what you sow and it's time to plant new seeds in the farm system.