Around the League '16-'17 Part Why Is This Still Going

[tny760]

These playoffs cemented to me that he is the best defenseman in the world. The ability to carry the puck up the ice from the defensive to offensive zone is incredible, haven't seen anyone do it that well since Coffey and Leetch. And he was doing it with a broken foot.

Ottawa needs a big time finisher up front though.

heel microfractures do not make a broken foot

just saying

and his offensive abilities don't disguise how often he's victimized defensively, that 2 on 1 last night was a perfect example, it was a sad effort but it's overshadowed by him jumping into the rush the next play. he's caught out of position SO OFTEN defensively it's ridiculous and usually it's because he wants to flee the zone. if not that, he's outright losing his man in front of the net because he puckwatches worse than almost any top-level defenseman i've seen.

don't get me wrong, he's as good of a rover as we're ever going to see but he is not the best defenseman.

 

[tny760]

I'm honestly impressed with Pitt.

They have overcome some significant injuries.

Interested to see what team and style wins the cup.

i think this is absolute best case scenario for a cup final, i can't wait to watch these games

even with the injuries between the teams they're both so solid all-around

 

[onlyalad]

No other California team playing
No Canadian team playing
No Blackhawks
All good things
Now have to hope the Pens don't win back2back

 

[kovacro]

No other California team playing
No Canadian team playing
No Blackhawks
All good things
Now have to hope the Pens don't win back2back

Because Montreal cheated, yes?

Maybe the Kings and McSorely should have done a better job hiding those illegal sticks and better yet, not use one during a critical juncture in the game.

Monday start for the Final? I guess arenas we not available? Or is it because of US Television? Either way, little too much of a layoff. Let's get at it.

 

[SFKingshomer]

heel microfractures do not make a broken foot

just saying

and his offensive abilities don't disguise how often he's victimized defensively, that 2 on 1 last night was a perfect example, it was a sad effort but it's overshadowed by him jumping into the rush the next play. he's caught out of position SO OFTEN defensively it's ridiculous and usually it's because he wants to flee the zone. if not that, he's outright losing his man in front of the net because he puckwatches worse than almost any top-level defenseman i've seen.

don't get me wrong, he's as good of a rover as we're ever going to see but he is not the best defenseman.

Agreed, he's often outmuscled along the boards as well. He overskated one late in the game last night that nearly cost them. I think Boucher's system allows him to be even more aggressive because there's always someone to cover him. I wonder what kind of numbers Doughty would put up if he was always allowed to go go go. Don't get me wrong, he's an amazing talent but there are a few I'd rather have.

 

[tny760]

Agreed, he's often outmuscled along the boards as well. He overskated one late in the game last night that nearly cost them. I think Boucher's system allows him to be even more aggressive because there's always someone to cover him. I wonder what kind of numbers Doughty would put up if he was always allowed to go go go. Don't get me wrong, he's an amazing talent but there are a few I'd rather have.

exactly how i see it, but i also think the pens equally cover their defensemen but do it more safely as well. their rotations over when a defenseman pinches is an absolute treat to watch, they play such a great team game.

think i remember seeing karlsson try to drag a puck along the blue line past rust's forecheck and when he shot it off his skates he had to chase rust down and honestly got lucky that he caught up to disrupt the shot. that might be the same play you're talking about. could've just one-timed it back up the boards and stepped back to cover rust but he tried to force the SOG. i guess you kinda play to your strengths, and if your strength is karlsson's individual efforts, fine.. i just don't think that's gonna get you a cup. there's several other D i'd rather have too

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Karlsson's play carried his team to Game 7 of the Conference Finals, and his two points in Game 7 also helped get his team into OT.

He takes his chances, but he more than makes up for them.

 

[onlyalad]

Because Montreal cheated, yes?

Maybe the Kings and McSorely should have done a better job hiding those illegal sticks and better yet, not use one during a critical juncture in the game.

Monday start for the Final? I guess arenas we not available? Or is it because of US Television? Either way, little too much of a layoff. Let's get at it.

Yep
Since I don't know the difference between Canadians and Canadiens they all must suffer. Also it is funny seeing the "I don't root for other Canadian teams" or "half the guys on the winning team are from Canada" posts.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Man, listening to Karlsson's interview and watching the guy play in these playoffs has made me a huge fan of his. He couldn't stop giving the Penguins credit tonight after the game and refused to use his foot as an excuse. Just said how he was able to play and he couldn't ask for anything more.

Hell, he was the one that told everyone about his injury in the first place Totally fearless performance and all class.

Karlsson's play carried his team to Game 7 of the Conference Finals, and his two points in Game 7 also helped get his team into OT.

He takes his chances, but he more than makes up for them.

These playoffs, he did. But the rest? revisionist history. The guy has always been scored on at a much higher rate relative to team than any other top defenseman by a bunch, and that's saying something given he was given priority minutes, cushy starts, and almost no PK time.

I've always said he has the toolset to be Lidstrom defensively. He's that smart and talented. But his focus is the questionmark. These playoffs (and much of last season), we got to see close to the best of him defensively. If he's this guy going forward, or even better, good lord.

Literally right this moment, best d-man in the league. But he's still gotta follow it up and prove it wasn't a one season surge. Funny how a lot of the same people were complaining about Doughty being crowned best d-man because of his 2014 playoffs are now using this sample to do the same over here.

I think Drew and Erik are the top-2 right now, maybe toss HEdman in there two. But neither guy is Bourque or Lidstrom (never mind the laughable Orr comparison); Erik has defensive deficiencies, Drew has a lack of offensive production. To be fair they're doing what their teams need of them though, Drew morphing into full shutdown guy, Erik being the offensive-driving catalyst.

 

[Herby]

But the Kings don't need Drew to just be a shutdown guy who chips the puck out or dumps it in when he gains the red line.

Doughty has the skill set to be a Bourque type of defenseman minus the lethal shot.

As far as the lame NBA arguments about rings. If the players were in opposite situations Karlsson has 2 rings and Doughty has none. Can't blame a guy for the team he plays on.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I doubt the Kings win their 2 cups with Karlsson replacing Doughty. Doughty certainly deserved his Norris last season despite the main board chubby for Karlsson.

 

[Little Psycho]

Can't imagine the Kings PK without Doughty, he was crucial during the playoffs.

 

[Little Psycho]

Typical main boards doomed with amnesia again.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Can't imagine the Kings PK without Doughty, he was crucial during the playoffs.

Yea no doubt considering Karlsson didn't kill many penalties until this season.

 

[Little Psycho]

Yea no doubt considering Karlsson didn't kill many penalties until this season.

Especially in 2014; a bunch a Game 7's, no Mitchell or Greene, and a half injured Regehr. Karlsson brings more offense but I wouldn't trade DD for him.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Starting to see articles declaring the Penguins a dynasty already and pointing to playoff wins as the measure. Just keep lowering that bar.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Typical main boards doomed with amnesia again.

Seriously. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Orr, Bourque, and Lidstrom are overrated.

The Pens are the team of the decade even though there were SEVEN years between cups.

I can't even participate in discussion outside this board anymore, it's like every year people get their memories wiped of anything more than 6 months ago.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Can't imagine the Kings PK without Doughty, he was crucial during the playoffs.

4v5 in the 2014 playoffs, the Kings were 3.69 GA/60 with Drew on the ice, and 6.52 off the ice

 

[KINGS17]

Bobby Orr is probably the best hockey player to ever play in the NHL.

I understand there are not many posters old enough to really remember seeing him play, but just to refresh everyone's memory:

8 consecutive Norris Trophies, and within that span 3 consecutive Hart Trophies, 2 Ross Trophies, and 2 Conn Smythe Trophies. That's 2 Ross Trophies by a defenseman. You won't find another defenseman on the Ross Trophy list.

There is no way you can overrate Bobby Orr.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Bobby Orr is probably the best hockey player to ever play in the NHL.

I understand there are not many posters old enough to really remember seeing him play, but just to refresh everyone's memory:

8 consecutive Norris Trophies, and within that span 3 consecutive Hart Trophies, 2 Ross Trophies, and 2 Conn Smythe Trophies. That's 2 Ross Trophies by a defenseman. You won't find another defenseman on the Ross Trophy list.

There is no way you can overrate Bobby Orr.

I was being facetious in case it wasn't clear. Those are literal statements from the main board.

Orr also did all that in an injury shortened career, making it all the more impressive.

 

[KINGS17]

I was being facetious in case it wasn't clear. Those are literal statements from the main board.

Orr also did all that in an injury shortened career, making it all the more impressive.

I know RJ, I was agreeing with you. Just wanted to throw some info out there, so people realize just how great Orr was as a defenseman in the NHL.

 

[The Tikkanen]

I know RJ, I was agreeing with you. Just wanted to throw some info out there, so people realize just how great Orr was as a defenseman in the NHL.

Then you can look at Coffey's numbers put up during his prime and the comparisons to Karlsson stop. Different era, different goalies, different everything but the numbers Orr and Coffey put up are numbers future HOF forwards don't put up today and won't anytime soon.

 

[johnjm22]

I'm of the opinion that Doughty hasn't played up to his potential in years. He rarely looks dangerous with the puck on his stick. No creativity in his game.

I also think his Norris was retroactive.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I still think Mike Bossy doesn't get mentioned enough in "all time greats" discussions.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm of the opinion that Doughty hasn't played up to his potential in years. He rarely looks dangerous with the puck on his stick. No creativity in his game.

I also think his Norris was retroactive.

Offensively? I agree with that. He still has offense that we haven't seen manifest.

But as an all around player? His best years have been his last couple. And frankly I don't feel the need to make Doughty's Norris case anymore because it's insulting that people suggest he was undeserving, it gets old yelling at walls.