Around the League '16-'17 Other Teams' Free Agent Frenzy

[BigKing]

If we are riding these guys into the ground, I'm all for moving salary and going hard after Tavares.

 

[Reaper45]

If we are riding these guys into the ground, I'm all for moving salary and going hard after Tavares.

Which is one of the positives I listed previously in moving Carter. You move salary to make a run for Tavares, and if you sign him it's a coup for your team because you prevent him from signing with a rival like San Jose or Anaheim, you upgrade from Carter to Tavares AND you get assets for Carter.

 

[BigKing]

Which is one of the positives I listed previously in moving Carter. You move salary to make a run for Tavares, and if you sign him it's a coup for your team because you prevent him from signing with a rival like San Jose or Anaheim, you upgrade from Carter to Tavares AND you get assets for Carter.

Completely agree with the concept; however, I don't see Blake moving Carter.

I think you look at moving one of Muzzin/Martinez (probably Muzzin due to more value) for an ELC forward that has shown NHL production +pick/prospect and then also move Toffoli for something similar, although this might be all prospect/pick based.

Can Vilardi play LW or is it RW/C

Vilardi or Muzzin Trade/Kopitar/Brown
Pearson/Tavares/Carter
Iafallo/Kempe/Lewis
Surprise me

Idea here being that Vilardi is good enough to play Top 6 at wing with Carter moving to wing with Tavares. Iafallo can slot back up to LW1 if needed. Maybe the young forward picked up via the Muzzin trade can slot in to Top 6 due to playing with a great C in Kopitar or Tavares.

Tavares makes his linemates better while Toffoli isn't in the same stratosphere as Tavares. I like Muzzin but need to shed cap and I'd like more young, cheap forward help. They could even have one of those popular, all-speed "New NHL" type 3rd lines.

I'm just not sure they have the space available even if they moved Toffoli and Muzzin.

 

[Reaper45]

Completely agree with the concept; however, I don't see Blake moving Carter.

I think you look at moving one of Muzzin/Martinez (probably Muzzin due to more value) for an ELC forward that has shown NHL production +pick/prospect and then also move Toffoli for something similar, although this might be all prospect/pick based.

Can Vilardi play LW or is it RW/C

Vilardi or Muzzin Trade/Kopitar/Brown
Pearson/Tavares/Carter
Iafallo/Kempe/Lewis
Surprise me

Idea here being that Vilardi is good enough to play Top 6 at wing with Carter moving to wing with Tavares. Iafallo can slot back up to LW1 if needed. Maybe the young forward picked up via the Muzzin trade can slot in to Top 6 due to playing with a great C in Kopitar or Tavares.

Tavares makes his linemates better while Toffoli isn't in the same stratosphere as Tavares. I like Muzzin but need to shed cap and I'd like more young, cheap forward help. They could even have one of those popular, all-speed "New NHL" type 3rd lines.

I'm just not sure they have the space available even if they moved Toffoli and Muzzin.

I get it and could get behind that too. I think moving Muzzin and Toffoli clears 8+ million. I dont think you get as high quality of assets for those two as you would for say Carter and Martinez though but I'd be on board with moving either package of players.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't know if they'll be able to afford Tavares, even if they move Carter. He's likely looking at $9M+ per year, and on top of that, Doughty is a top priority come July 1. I'd love to see Tavares here, but I think that a team in the East will be prepared to make him a very rich player, one the Kings will not be able to afford.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'll throw out a guess why the Kings will believe that until they're forced not to; the 17-18 Washington Capitals. Whether or not they beat TB at this point, or come close against Winnipeg, isn't the point. They are where they are right now. Go read Tampa fans. They're ready to jump.

The Caps traded Johansson for picks(which haven't helped them yet) because of the cap, not value. They gave 30+ Oshie a bad contract. They have bottom of the barrel free agents like Chiasson and Smith-Pelley actually helping them. They lost Schmidt for nothing, and replaced him with a 7th round pick from 6 years ago, and/or Michal Kempny. Orpik is still in their top 5. They have a 29 year old player that had 1 goal in his previous 25 playoff games with 5 in 14 games this year. This was all after their championship window closed, but they've managed to find themselves in a better physical position to win after that window shut than when it was predicted to be open.

That's what the Kings will sell people on.

I actually came here to post the same substance but a different viewpoint--all this focus on the construction of Winnipeg (youth, picks), Vegas (impossible to reproduce), and Tampa Bay (success, then tank, now success again), but conveniently no one on this board is looking at the Capitals, who are in a very similar situation as we are. Why aren't they the 'model' for sustained success, but these other franchises are, when they're the closest to advancing to the SCF?

It's almost as if you don't have to do it one way.

 

[KINGS17]

I don't know if they'll be able to afford Tavares, even if they move Carter. He's likely looking at $9M+ per year, and on top of that, Doughty is a top priority come July 1. I'd love to see Tavares here, but I think that a team in the East will be prepared to make him a very rich player, one the Kings will not be able to afford.

San Jose and Vegas can make offers as well. I don't expect the Kings to go after Tavares. Maybe they will give it some lip service. Blake's priority will be Doughty and the Kings will return the status quo roster next season plus Vilardi. We will see relatively the same results and all that will have been done is the odometers on Kopitar, Doughty, Carter and Quick will have increased by a season's worth of games.

 

[KINGS17]

I actually came here to post the same substance but a different viewpoint--all this focus on the construction of Winnipeg (youth, picks), Vegas (impossible to reproduce), and Tampa Bay (success, then tank, now success again), but conveniently no one on this board is looking at the Capitals, who are in a very similar situation as we are. Why aren't they the 'model' for sustained success, but these other franchises are, when they're the closest to advancing to the SCF?

It's almost as if you don't have to do it one way.

Okay, I will play give us the equivalencies between the Kings and Caps rosters, or how the Kings get where the Caps are next season. The Tampa series isn't over yet. I have seen the Caps come from ahead to lose too many times.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

San Jose and Vegas can make offers as well. I don't expect the Kings to go after Tavares. Maybe they will give it some lip service. Blake's priority will be Doughty and the Kings will return the status quo roster next season plus Vilardi. We will see relatively the same results and all that will have been done is the odometers on Kopitar, Doughty, Carter and Quick will have increased by a season's worth of games.

If Pearson and Toffoli perform consistently and Kempe and Iafallo make strides, that could go a long way to helping the team, but understandably, that is a lot of ifs. Kopitar, Brown, and Carter (pre-playoffs) performing as well as they did last season will also be important for this team's success. They need more balanced scoring, and I don't know if that's going to come internally.

Guys like Amadio and Brodzinski also have to start proving themselves. Of course I'm dissatisfied with the results of the past four years, but I also realize it is going to be really challenging to go the free agent route or to pull of a deal that is going to work out favorably for the Kings.

Maybe a trade for a Jeff Skinner type forward is something that can be attainable. The Caps have largely stuck with the same group with a few additions to help their depth. We'll see if it is enough to get them over the hump, but they're certainly performing better than they ever have in previous playoff years.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Okay, I will play give us the equivalencies between the Kings and Caps rosters, or how the Kings get where the Caps are next season. The Tampa series isn't over yet. I have seen the Caps come from ahead to lose too many times.

The Washington Capitals are actually older than the Kings, just food for thought.

Did you predict the Caps to be where they are now? I mean, they missed the playoffs altogether a few years ago, and they haven't been out of the second round until this season.

I find it telling though that we exalt teams like Winnipeg--even Edmonton last year, look how that's going--but here you're going out of your way to expect failure from the Caps.

Now to be totally transparent I agree, and I don't think the Caps are what teams should be 'modeling' per se, but they are an example that an older team doesn't necessarily mean a dumpster team, which is why I disagree that we should be in a hurry to dump our older guys. I'm just pointing out that there's more than one way to build, rebuild, or retool, and that going scorched earth on our roster is folly given that the only conference finalist that can be said to have done that is sort of Tampa Bay.

 

[Herby]

The Kings need to acquire cost controlled assets, assuming they re-sign Doughty it's unrealistic to expect three guys making $10m + a year.

Since 2011 the Jets have had 14 picks in the first and second round, they used five of those on wingers, five of those on centers, three on defenseman and one on a goaltender. That is how you end up in a situation where you have so many young players in key positions not making a ton.

In 2015 they used 7 of their 8 picks on forwards, the Kings need to draft like this for the next couple of years, the goaltending and defense are fine, the forwards at the NHL and minor level are an embarrassment, but not surprising since the type of hockey that has been played the last couple of years in May and June was seen as a "fad" by the people in charge in LA. Good thing we gutted the management and scouting though, oh wait...

I mean when you have Kopitar, Doughty, Quick it's not even like you need to hit home-runs every year like the Jets did for 5-6 years. A few solid base hits added to those three guys is all the Kings would have needed. But again, one winger drafted in the first round in 11 years. Just sad.

 

[BigKing]

I'd say the difference between the Kings since 2014 and the Caps since then, and now, is that they have still had more playoff success.

I understand that Winnipeg had zero success, much like the Kings have recently, but they look more like the Kings of 2012 when the young guys finally put it together v. whatever the Kings have been the last few years.

Kings are getting older at every key position and are already considered old while also winning one playoff game in the last four seasons.

It's a real leap of faith to think that they can be like Washington right now when all they've done is piss in our cereal the last few seasons. It *could* happen but, like Ziggy said, there are a lot of "ifs" and the "ifs" have mostly crapped out since 2014.

Hell, a lot of the big "ifs" actually hit this season and they still wound up getting swept while only scoring three goals. Cause for optimism is not high.

 

[King'sPawn]

As long as it isn't a long term contract, it doesn't matter. If Bozak wants $6M for six years, you pass and move on. There were other examples on the list. You think Letestu is in a position to dictate terms?

You think Letestu is a #2 center? I'd rather have Trevor Lewis as the #2 center.

Players who you listed (and others would go for) would either cost too much or actually are on the decline and don't have much in the tank and can't hold the fort for several years until prospects are ready.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt here. The ultimate difference is the scale in which you feel more comfortable selling players off than I am. It's why I am okay with trading away Toffoli, Muzzin, etc. They play roles other players can (or currently are) fill in.

You want to trade players before their value drops and the Kings aren't cup favorites. I get that.

I feel the organization has roles and responsibilities that need to be upheld, regardless of their cup contention status. I agree, in a vacuum, the Kings will get way more for Carter now than waiting any longer. But I think the cost to replace him right now will cost a lot more than what the Kings can acquire.

 

[Herby]

Hell, a lot of the big "ifs" actually hit this season and they still wound up getting swept while only scoring three goals. Cause for optimism is not high.

I don't think people take this into consideration enough.

Anze Kopitar and Dustin Brown probably aren't combining for 63 goals again this coming season, yes Carter will be back and that will help, but they had Carter in the postseason and still got crushed.

I think what we are seeing is fans, and sadly Kings management being unwilling or unable to turn the page on the 2012-2014 team.

Huge mistakes at the 2015 deadline, huge mistakes at the 2015 draft, huge mistakes in the 2016 offseason. And sadly it seems we are going to keep going down the path of being top heavy and having zero depth.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I think its a fair debate regarding whether or not to trade Carter or other vets to get younger. But the reality is that this is not going to happen under Luc and Blake. They have made it very clear that the team is going to try to be a contender. As such, I assume we are keeping Carter.

Blake's acquisition of Phaneuf, however, has opened up some options for us to trade a defenseman for a forward. I think the focus should be on that during the off season. If Tavares is available, I think the Kings should certainly put their bid in for him. We can make his cap work, even if it means trading Muzzin and Martinez. With Tavares in the lineup, a defensive lineup of Forbort-Doughty; Phaneuf-LaDue; and others, will get the job done.

Other than Tavares, we should not go near any of the UFAs. The good ones are going to be costly and require 6 year contracts, which we should stay away from. The best option is to incorporate Vilardi in our lineup, hope that Kempe/Iafallo take a step forward, and see who we can get by trading Muzzin or Martinez.

 

[Herby]

You think Letestu is a #2 center? I'd rather have Trevor Lewis as the #2 center.

Players who you listed (and others would go for) would either cost too much or actually are on the decline and don't have much in the tank and can't hold the fort for several years until prospects are ready.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt here. The ultimate difference is the scale in which you feel more comfortable selling players off than I am. It's why I am okay with trading away Toffoli, Muzzin, etc. They play roles other players can (or currently are) fill in.

You want to trade players before their value drops and the Kings aren't cup favorites. I get that.

I feel the organization has roles and responsibilities that need to be upheld, regardless of their cup contention status. I agree, in a vacuum, the Kings will get way more for Carter now than waiting any longer. But I think the cost to replace him right now will cost a lot more than what the Kings can acquire.

Valardi may take a year or two but if he can't be a #2 center then he is not nearly worth all the hype he gets around these parts.

The Kings aren't winning anything this season or next with or without Carter, so what's it matter if you let Valardi learn on the job at 19-20-21 like Scheifele did and then add a few pieces that are in that same age group that can contribute the next time the Kings are ready to contend again probably in 2021 or 2022.

I think the big issue is Doughty though, the Kings are doing longterm damage to the team trying to show Doughty that they are trying to win now, even though there is zero chance that is happening. Blake needs to be honest with Doughty that it's going to take probably 3 years to get back to contending, Doughty is young enough where he can still be a very good player in three years, but if Drew doesn't want to be a part of that then he can be traded as well for a massive return.

But wow, this really does feel like 98-2005 Kings hockey discussion, which makes me really sad.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

As an aside, I still always wonder why every time there's a rumor about Tavares, he's always linked to the Kings.

 

[The Tikkanen]

As an aside, I still always wonder why every time there's a rumor about Tavares, he's always linked to the Kings.

Cause King fans click on the internet a lot. It creates buzz, pun intended.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I still think we should sell high on Kopitar, Brown, and Carter, and rebuild from the net out around Doughty and Quick. Could likely seriously contend again in 20/21. Kopitar’s value in particular would never be close to what it is now.

The only issue is Doughty signing off on that, which he won’t.

That aside, like others have said, if we’re going all in on the Cup Core, I agree with trading Carter and going hard after Tavares.

Imagine Vegas getting both Tavares and E Karlsson this offseason lmao.

 

[Reaper45]

As an aside, I still always wonder why every time there's a rumor about Tavares, he's always linked to the Kings.

He's been rumored to want to play here, for a long time actually.

 

[johnjm22]

He's been rumored to want to play here, for a long time actually.

I don't recall these rumors. Where have you seen this?

 

[johnjm22]

There's been speculation that because of the new contract rules, Tavares could end up being moved in a rare sign-and-trade type deal.

You'd be getting him signed to an 8 year deal. Islanders need goaltending and defense.

 

[kingsfan28]

I don't know if they'll be able to afford Tavares, even if they move Carter. He's likely looking at $9M+ per year, and on top of that, Doughty is a top priority come July 1. I'd love to see Tavares here, but I think that a team in the East will be prepared to make him a very rich player, one the Kings will not be able to afford.

Yeah, between them you may be looking at somewhere around 20-24 mil.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

He's been rumored to want to play here, for a long time actually.

Really? Why? Defense first system. High tax state. Older core. Only thing I can think of is LA but he can just live here in the summer.

 

[kingsfan28]

There's been speculation that because of the new contract rules, Tavares could end up being moved in a rare sign-and-trade type deal.

You'd be getting him signed to an 8 year deal. Islanders need goaltending and defense.

From the Kings?