Armchair GM Thread

[Armourboy]

Thing is I don't mind Trotz asking for the moon if he did. Teams were paying stupid prices and with ROR you could always trade him at this deadline where the first is considered to be better.

That's said I'm betting even if this is close someone got their wires crossed and the ask was a 1st + Mercer or Nemec not both, and like I said the prices teams were paying that wouldn't have been a crazy starting point, especially if you had other teams interested.

The fact it's just coming out now leads me to believe someone was playing telephone and now have the info wrong.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I do not mean to impugn the NJ Devils' GM. But tbh, any team offering any 2 of those assets for ROR has some brain damage. They would be in exactly the same place today if they made that trade. Maybe worse if they had included Nemec and lost his OT goal. Good for them for dodging even half of this non-sensical bullet, if that even ever happened?

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

Fine with that as a starting offer from Trotz, assuming he was ready to negotiate down and compromise. Obviously NJD would and should not have done that.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

That's my issue. Ok ask for the moon but come back down to earth. Nemec or Mercer and a 2nd is a fine return for ROR. And helps the team long term.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

That's my issue. Ok ask for the moon but come back down to earth. Nemec or Mercer and a 2nd is a fine return for ROR. And helps the team long term.

You're taking issue from a conclusion jumped to off an unconfirmed, probably unreliable rumor from a likely (if anything) early negotiating position? And if Jersey didn't actually offer either prospect at any point?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

You're taking issue from a conclusion jumped to off an unconfirmed, probably unreliable rumor from a likely (if anything) early negotiating position? And if Jersey didn't actually offer either prospect at any point?

Jersey probably didn't OFFER any of that. I guess the hypothetical is just what Trotz might have ASKED for? Which was outrageous, even as a dumb fan suggestion, which is probably all it ever was. I won't lose any sleep worrying about this fan's weird fever dream, that's for sure. Trotz has been demonstrably bad enough already with the moves he actually has made, we don't need to introduce any ridiculous fantasy elements.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

You're taking issue from a conclusion jumped to off an unconfirmed, probably unreliable rumor from a likely (if anything) early negotiating position? And if Jersey didn't actually offer either prospect at any point?

A fair point I'll concede. Let me go back to what Eliot Friedman said around the deadline: Trotz was asking the moon for ROR and treating him like he had a no movement clause.

I don't know if this NJ offer is real or not. I can tell you I heard Nemec and Mercer's names being thrown out there around that time.

The issue I have is Trotz giving a fictional no movement clause to his most valuable asset and hypothetically demanding far above what's reasonable for a depreciating asset.

My issue is I don't find this story completely unbelievable. Trotz asset management and evaluation of the trade market so far has been the worst part of his tenure has GM. Regardless if this report is true, that part is true.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

A fair point I'll concede. Let me go back to what Eliot Friedman said around the deadline: Trotz was asking the moon for ROR and treating him like he had a no movement clause.

I don't know if this NJ offer is real or not. I can tell you I heard Nemec and Mercer's names being thrown out there around that time.

The issue I have is Trotz giving a fictional no movement clause to his most valuable asset and hypothetically demanding far above what's reasonable for a depreciating asset.

My issue is I don't find this story completely unbelievable. Trotz asset management and evaluation of the trade market so far has been the worst part of his tenure has GM. Regardless if this report is true, that part is true.

I think it's very naive and unprofessional for Trotz to have handled the O'Reilly case as if he had an NMC. I do find that to be very credible, however. He very well might have taken that approach (he basically said so himself).

Although to be honest, players with NMCs often return a LESSER trade valuation, given their say in destination? So I'm not sure how treating a player as if that was in place should add up to some astronomically higher return? That also doesn't make sense. It should add up to a lower return, most times.

Anyway, Trotz can ask for whatever he wants, ultimately. NJ can laugh in his face. So I don't see any real value in trying to guess what he asked for, whether it was Mercer+2nd or Mercer+Nemec+1st, either way he's still a dumbass/woefully-inexperienced GM based on everything else he has done to date as a GM. Dreaming up some fantasy O'Reilly scenario doesn't change that.

 

[NSH615]

I think it's very naive and unprofessional for Trotz to have handled the O'Reilly case as if he had an NMC. I do find that to be very credible, however. He very well might have taken that approach (he basically said so himself).

Although to be honest, players with NMCs often return a LESSER trade valuation, given their say in destination? So I'm not sure how treating a player as if that was in place should add up to some astronomically higher return? That also doesn't make sense. It should add up to a lower return, most times.

Anyway, Trotz can ask for whatever he wants, ultimately. NJ can laugh in his face. So I don't see any real value in trying to guess what he asked for, whether it was Mercer+2nd or Mercer+Nemec+1st, either way he's still a dumbass/woefully-inexperienced GM based on everything else he has done to date as a GM. Dreaming up some fantasy O'Reilly scenario doesn't change that.

I believe the reasoning for it was ROR didn't want to be traded and Trotz didn't want to trade him so it was going to take an overpayment for him to do it. Trotz seems to also place alot value on "character".

 

[Olderfan]

I haven’t paid much attention to coaches other than the current Preds situation. But I need to understand the Taylor desire. What seems to be the draw? What has he accomplished? I’m serious; I just don’t know.

 

[Armourboy]

I haven’t paid much attention to coaches other than the current Preds situation. But I need to understand the Taylor desire. What seems to be the draw? What has he accomplished? I’m serious; I just don’t know.

Pretty much made runs in the AHL playoffs every season while having good regular seasons, and that's with a constantly changing roster. He just seems to win hockey games no matter who he has in the lineup.

 

[Kat Predator]

Pretty much made runs in the AHL playoffs every season while having good regular seasons, and that's with a constantly changing roster. He just seems to win hockey games no matter who he has in the lineup.

But that's not what we need to secure a top-5 pick next year too.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

Sounds like Hobey Baker winner Isaac Howard won’t sign in Tampa. I’d probably give Tampa their 1st back for his rights if he’ll sign

 

[Scoresberg]

Sounds like Hobey Baker winner Isaac Howard won’t sign in Tampa. I’d probably give Tampa their 1st back for his rights if he’ll sign

Give the Vegas 1st instead and I'm game.

 

[ShagDaddy]

I haven’t paid much attention to coaches other than the current Preds situation. But I need to understand the Taylor desire. What seems to be the draw? What has he accomplished? I’m serious; I just don’t know.

 

[Olderfan]

View attachment 1028779

Didn’t keep up with that and that’s good stuff. To follow up, Preds have not produced many quality players from Milwaukee lately although some were highly touted and we’ve had high expectations of some. I’ll mention Tomasino, Askarov, Evangelista, L’Heureux, Parsinnen, Kemmel. Now I fully understand that some are still prospects and it is too soon to say one way or another if they’ll make it. So, IF they are not developing as expected is it:
1. Too high expectations
2. Poor drafting of talent
3. Poor scouting
4. Poor development(primarily in Milwaukee)
5. Some combo of all the above
6. Other
If it is #4, is it Nichol? Or Taylor? Or Brunette Or Poile/Trotz?
I guess, even though Milwaukee’s results under Taylor are good, I’ll go out on a limb and say that’s not his primary job; that being to produce NHL ready players.
I’m not making a value judgement, just trying to better understand what is wrong.

 

[Armourboy]

Didn’t keep up with that and that’s good stuff. To follow up, Preds have not produced many quality players from Milwaukee lately although some were highly touted and we’ve had high expectations of some. I’ll mention Tomasino, Askarov, Evangelista, L’Heureux, Parsinnen, Kemmel. Now I fully understand that some are still prospects and it is too soon to say one way or another if they’ll make it. So, IF they are not developing as expected is it:
1. Too high expectations
2. Poor drafting of talent
3. Poor scouting
4. Poor development(primarily in Milwaukee)
5. Some combo of all the above
6. Other
If it is #4, is it Nichol? Or Taylor? Or Brunette Or Poile/Trotz?
I guess, even though Milwaukee’s results under Taylor are good, I’ll go out on a limb and say that’s not his primary job; that being to produce NHL ready players.
I’m not making a value judgement, just trying to better understand what is wrong.

Taylor's job is to guide the player and put them in the best position to succeed, he has no control over what happens once they get to the NHL.

Brunette and Trotz have managed to make most of the players on this roster look like crap, even the future hall of famers.

 

[NSH615]

Didn’t keep up with that and that’s good stuff. To follow up, Preds have not produced many quality players from Milwaukee lately although some were highly touted and we’ve had high expectations of some. I’ll mention Tomasino, Askarov, Evangelista, L’Heureux, Parsinnen, Kemmel. Now I fully understand that some are still prospects and it is too soon to say one way or another if they’ll make it. So, IF they are not developing as expected is it:
1. Too high expectations
2. Poor drafting of talent
3. Poor scouting
4. Poor development(primarily in Milwaukee)
5. Some combo of all the above
6. Other
If it is #4, is it Nichol? Or Taylor? Or Brunette Or Poile/Trotz?
I guess, even though Milwaukee’s results under Taylor are good, I’ll go out on a limb and say that’s not his primary job; that being to produce NHL ready players.
I’m not making a value judgement, just trying to better understand what is wrong.

The youth talent issue in the NHL almost 100% falls on Poile/Hynes and Trotz/Brunette for not putting players in positions to succeed. In addition to his record, the other reason I personally want Taylor is he knows these younger players and what they are capable of. Therefore he's more likely to put them into positions to succeed because he's already coached them with success.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Didn’t keep up with that and that’s good stuff. To follow up, Preds have not produced many quality players from Milwaukee lately although some were highly touted and we’ve had high expectations of some. I’ll mention Tomasino, Askarov, Evangelista, L’Heureux, Parsinnen, Kemmel. Now I fully understand that some are still prospects and it is too soon to say one way or another if they’ll make it. So, IF they are not developing as expected is it:
1. Too high expectations
2. Poor drafting of talent
3. Poor scouting
4. Poor development(primarily in Milwaukee)
5. Some combo of all the above
6. Other
If it is #4, is it Nichol? Or Taylor? Or Brunette Or Poile/Trotz?
I guess, even though Milwaukee’s results under Taylor are good, I’ll go out on a limb and say that’s not his primary job; that being to produce NHL ready players.
I’m not making a value judgement, just trying to better understand what is wrong.

It’s 6 on your list. Complete and utter failure at the NHL coach/GM levels in terms of integrating the graduating prospects and putting them in positions to continue their development and succeed at the NHL level. This seems to be a major failing of our organization… the lack of realization that development doesn’t stop at the AHL level. You still need to continue to actively develop players at the NHL level too.

 

[Preds Partisan]

It’s 6 on your list. Complete and utter failure at the NHL coach/GM levels in terms of integrating the graduating prospects and putting them in positions to continue their development and succeed at the NHL level. This seems to be a major failing of our organization… the lack of realization that development doesn’t stop at the AHL level. You still need to continue to actively develop players at the NHL level too.

Putting less experienced players in positions to fail/not succeed then blaming the player and resisting the concept of continuing development is such a bizarre position for this organization to take. There are occasional outliers, but I just don't see this from other teams and I'm including NFL and MLB teams as well.

 

[Armourboy]

Putting less experienced players in positions to fail/not succeed then blaming the player and resisting the concept of continuing development is such a bizarre position for this organization to take. There are occasional outliers, but I just don't see this from other teams and I'm including NFL and MLB teams as well.

Yep other teams are even willing to let their players step into the playoffs with little experience and let them learn on the job. We can't get ours to give guys with AHL playoff experience more than 10 minutes a night unless there is an injury and they are forced too.

I also don't want to hear this " need to earn playing time " when other teams are more than willing to throw their top prospects out there right off the bat. It's just a justification for poor coaching.

 

[Olderfan]

The youth talent issue in the NHL almost 100% falls on Poile/Hynes and Trotz/Brunette for not putting players in positions to succeed. In addition to his record, the other reason I personally want Taylor is he knows these younger players and what they are capable of. Therefore he's more likely to put them into positions to succeed because he's already coached them with success.

Keep talking, I’m listening.
Aren’t Nichols/Taylor and Poile/Trotz/Burnette in the same organization? I mean don’t they meet, talk and plan together?
Isn’t most everything Taylor is doing in synch with Trotz/Brunette? There can’t be 2 development plans for a player so wouldn’t Taylor be doing things that Brunette expects? And when a “rookie” is called up wouldn’t Taylor tell Brunette exactly what to expect? There shouldn’t be surprises.
I’m beginning to think there may be friction between Nichols/Taylor and Trotz/Burnette. Is that possibly a problem?
I also wonder sometimes if Preds are just developing youngsters to trade for “trusted” veterans. I know a player playing first line, power play 1st team is being developed to play high in the lineup not minimal 4th line minutes. So when “called up” to the NHL they’re really just losing development time while an NHL 4th liner gets pushed into a production position they’re incapable of handling(but they are “trusted”; question is “to do what?”).
This isn’t just a “we need a new coach” deal. It sounds like disarray in the whole management structure.

 

[NSH615]

Keep talking, I’m listening.
Aren’t Nichols/Taylor and Poile/Trotz/Burnette in the same organization? I mean don’t they meet, talk and plan together?
Isn’t most everything Taylor is doing in synch with Trotz/Brunette? There can’t be 2 development plans for a player so wouldn’t Taylor be doing things that Brunette expects? And when a “rookie” is called up wouldn’t Taylor tell Brunette exactly what to expect? There shouldn’t be surprises.
I’m beginning to think there may be friction between Nichols/Taylor and Trotz/Burnette. Is that possibly a problem?
I also wonder sometimes if Preds are just developing youngsters to trade for “trusted” veterans. I know a player playing first line, power play 1st team is being developed to play high in the lineup not minimal 4th line minutes. So when “called up” to the NHL they’re really just losing development time while an NHL 4th liner gets pushed into a production position they’re incapable of handling(but they are “trusted”; question is “to do what?”).
This isn’t just a “we need a new coach” deal. It sounds like disarray in the whole management structure.

They are in the same organization, but Taylor isn't deploying the same style and system as Brunette. Here's an article from October 2023.

Though Brunette is in charge of leading the NHL club, Taylor needed to make it clear to him that if their relationship was to work, he wasn’t going to change everything about the way he coaches.

During a radio interview with Admirals play-by-play voice Aaron Sims Monday night on the Big 920, Taylor said he and Brunette reached an agreement that will allow him to keep approximately 80% of the system Milwaukee runs in place while conceding the other 20% to accommodate Brunette.

“I’ve negotiated to have a little bit of room as a coach to make adjustments and not follow 100% because that’s important just to have some room to win games in the moment when you need to,” Taylor said. “

...

When Taylor joined the Predators organization five years ago, he wanted to implement a fun atmosphere in Milwaukee that empowered his players to make decisions on the ice for themselves. It’s a similar quality Taylor said he saw out of Brunette while he was in Nashville for training camp the last two weeks.

Source Link: Karl Taylor Dishes On Changes To Admirals-Predators Dynamic

 

[Armourboy]

And I don't blame Taylor one bit for not changing his system to reflect Brunette's because Brunette's doesn't work

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Brunette just kinda seems like a stubborn dick with a bad system that people don't want.