Armchair GM Thread

[101st_fan]

If we get anyone in UFA, it needs to be a late 20s year old (Marner or Chychrun age range) and we need to move some of the mid 30s guys and relegate of 4th liners to the AHL or trade them.

Trotz isn't likely to move RoR, Stamkos, March, Bunting, or Forsberg. There is five of the top six on opening night. The question is what does he do with Smith, Sissons, and McCarron as vets and Evangalista, Svech, ZLH as youngsters. Something has to give among those six to create room for someone either from Milwaukee or the FA market. With Trotz as GM it wouldn't surprise me to see Vrana get a short term offer just to complicate things up front even more.

The backend is just as congested. Josi (if healthy), Skjei, Lauzon are half of the blueline with another seven players under contract with Gibson and Molendyk making the move to pro hockey .... not counting MDG and Livingstone as pending group six FAs. The two group six players are the first domino to fall and we see what Trotz is doing from there.

 

[Armourboy]

If we get anyone in UFA, it needs to be a late 20s year old (Marner or Chychrun age range) and we need to move some of the mid 30s guys and relegate of 4th liners to the AHL or trade them.

Almost all of the mid 30's guys have NTC/NMC so that's just dreaming really.

 

[herzausstein]

Almost all of the mid 30's guys have NTC/NMC so that's just dreaming really.

May be dreaming... but doubling down on this coach and a roster where 4 of the top 6 contributors are 35+ and the other 2 will be 30+ is a nightmare. We don't have any young forwards poised for a breakout.

 

[Kat Predator]

May be dreaming... but doubling down on this coach and a roster where 4 of the top 6 contributors are 35+ and the other 2 will be 30+ is a nightmare. We don't have any young forwards poised for a breakout.

And even if they were, they're only getting 8 minutes or sitting in the pressbox.

 

[originalpredfan]

Since this is a lost season anyway, I would love to see a line of Svetch at center Vange, and ZLH on the wings play together for the rest of the season. Could possibly develop as a formidable line for next season.

 

[ShagDaddy]

The fans are gonna get a retirement home top 6 next year and be in the McKenna sweepstakes whether they like it or not.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

As long as we are entering next season with Bruno as coach, there are no player personnel changes that will give me optimism. Whether we keep all our current guys, add more retirement home guys (my expectation), whether we opted instead to use more youngsters instead, or anything in between... I've seen no signs whatsoever over this extended disaster season that would make me believe that Bruno can coach ANY lineup we can come up with into a winning record.

And since I fully expect him back as coach, I'm just going to set my expectation level accordingly as being in the "McKenna sweepstakes".

 

[herzausstein]

The fans are gonna get a retirement home top 6 next year and be in the McKenna sweepstakes whether they like it or not.

McKenna would be a great addition and would go well with a Misa/Hagens/Frondell/McQueen. Don't want to intentionally seek him out but the direction the team is going we could end up there. Still think we are closer to 7-10 overall but I see no reason why we would be any higher then that barring other teams really slipping

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

McKenna would be a great addition and would go well with a Misa/Hagens/Frondell/McQueen. Don't want to intentionally seek him out but the direction the team is going we could end up there. Still think we are closer to 7-10 overall but I see no reason why we would be any higher then that barring other teams really slipping

Not sure where the optimism comes from, given most of the other tanking/rebuilding teams have already bottomed out and ought to be on the upswing... ? Maybe Pittsburgh and who else is still likely to be downswinging with us?

Granted, it's basically impossible to intentionally seek out McKenna given the lottery only ever gives you 25% odds at best. But I can imagine we'll be in range of getting that #1 pick in most of the next several lotteries. It's possible we'll be dead last for 5 years straight and manage to lose the lottery every single time in grand Perd fashion, however. (With Crosby and Malkin aging out, it's right about time for Pittsburgh to score their Next Ones in the next little while.)

 

[Scoresberg]

One theory is that they'll let us win the lottery this year and take us out from the McKenna sweepstakes for next year.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

One theory is that they'll let us win the lottery this year and take us out from the McKenna sweepstakes for next year.

We have never won the lottery, so we can win it twice. As if we will.

 

[Scoresberg]

We have never won the lottery, so we can win it twice. As if we will.

I suppose you're right, for some reason I remembered you could only win it once in like a three year span and twice in a five-year window.

 

[ShagDaddy]

I’m beginning to think that some of the people on this board and another that I’m on could absolutely run this organization better than the current administration.

 

[Armourboy]

View attachment 995555I’m beginning to think that some of the people on this board and another that I’m on could absolutely run this organization better than the current administration.

I mean I think if you could strap in and deal with the Chaos we probably could put a better team together. We sure wouldn't have signed these old guys, wouldn't have moved Fabbro for nothing, nor would Brunette still had a job by the end of November.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Remind me what we could have traded for Cozens?

I think we know that Trotz was interested. But we also were told repeatedly that Buffalo wanted a young already-established player back in any deal, not any futures or draft picks. That seems to have been borne out by the trade for Norris. I'm assuming that trade pursuit went nowhere because we simply didn't have the right assets to make it happen. We had all old guys, tweeners, or youngsters who were getting pressboxed into oblivion.

I guess we can blame Trotz for putting us in the state where we had nothing to offer. We probably can't blame him for simply not being interested in Cozens, however.

 

[herzausstein]

Remind me what we could have traded for Cozens?

I think we know that Trotz was interested. But we also were told repeatedly that Buffalo wanted a young already-established player back in any deal, not any futures or draft picks. That seems to have been borne out by the trade for Norris. I'm assuming that trade pursuit went nowhere because we simply didn't have the right assets to make it happen. We had all old guys, tweeners, or youngsters who were getting pressboxed into oblivion.

I guess we can blame Trotz for putting us in the state where we had nothing to offer. We probably can't blame him for simply not being interested in Cozens, however.

I don't think we had what Buffalo wanted. They wanted a similar young center in a change of scenery type trade. They got Josh Norris in return. Similar production history as Cozens, similar age, similar contract. We have nothing like that. It's made even worse with RoRs imaginary NMC. We don't even have a similar level center to send back to them.

As an aside, Trotz signed RoR. If we were going to act like he had a NMC, why didn't we just give it to him?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

As an aside, Trotz signed RoR. If we were going to act like he had a NMC, why didn't we just give it to him?

It sounds like that wasn't like an "open bidding" type of situation? As in, we had colluded before free agency opened to sign him, he wanted to be in Nashville, gave a discount to get it done, and we weren't bidding against anybody else's contracts which had an NMC in it?

In general, I respect the idea that even if you just give a verbal/implied NMC, then as a GM you really must stand by it. If that's what Trotz did, then I can't really blame him for keeping his word. O'Reilly is with Newport, though, so I'm a little surprised a group that big would let things pass on a GM's verbal in this day and age though.

 

[herzausstein]

It sounds like that wasn't like an "open bidding" type of situation? As in, we had colluded before free agency opened to sign him, he wanted to be in Nashville, gave a discount to get it done, and we weren't bidding against anybody else's contracts which had an NMC in it?

In general, I respect the idea that even if you just give a verbal/implied NMC, then as a GM you really must stand by it. If that's what Trotz did, then I can't really blame him for keeping his word. O'Reilly is with Newport, though, so I'm a little surprised a group that big would let things pass on a GM's verbal in this day and age though.

As far as I'm concerned, if it isn't in the contract it doesn't exist and that's how I think the players should approach it too. We gave NMC to every other old dude we signed last season so it isn't like Trotz was afraid of putting it on paper.

 

[ShagDaddy]

Remind me what we could have traded for Cozens?

I think we know that Trotz was interested. But we also were told repeatedly that Buffalo wanted a young already-established player back in any deal, not any futures or draft picks. That seems to have been borne out by the trade for Norris. I'm assuming that trade pursuit went nowhere because we simply didn't have the right assets to make it happen. We had all old guys, tweeners, or youngsters who were getting pressboxed into oblivion.

I guess we can blame Trotz for putting us in the state where we had nothing to offer. We probably can't blame him for simply not being interested in Cozens, however.

The frame work for the trade was in place in December. Novak was part of the deal and Trotz didn’t want to include him in the deal at that time. Trotz could have had him but wouldn’t pull the trigger because he over valued his players.

 

[hockey diva]

And then threw Novak away to Pittsburgh...

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

The frame work for the trade was in place in December. Novak was part of the deal and Trotz didn’t want to include him in the deal at that time. Trotz could have had him but wouldn’t pull the trigger because he over valued his players.

That doesn’t seem plausible to me. Given what we know of of how lowly Trotz valued Novak. And how poorly Novak was producing at the time. Oh, I have no doubt Trotz would have offered that. He was certainly trying to acquire Cozens, we know that. But again, it more likely comes down to us simply not having the right assets to entice Buffalo. I’m not sure us making an unsatisfactory offer counts as a “framework” really.

 

[Armourboy]

That doesn’t seem plausible to me. Given what we know of of how lowly Trotz valued Novak. And how poorly Novak was producing at the time. Oh, I have no doubt Trotz would have offered that. He was certainly trying to acquire Cozens, we know that. But again, it more likely comes down to us simply not having the right assets to entice Buffalo. I’m not sure us making an unsatisfactory offer counts as a “framework” really.

It does to me. Trotz in December thought he still had a shot at the playoffs. His goal was to add Cozens as a 2nd line center with Novak filling the 3rd line spot. Novak didn't become disliked until Trotz decided he wanted Bunting and had no hope to make the playoffs. I'm not sold Trotz's like and dislike can't turn on a dime, which is why some of these contracts make no sense.

 

[ShagDaddy]

That doesn’t seem plausible to me. Given what we know of of how lowly Trotz valued Novak. And how poorly Novak was producing at the time. Oh, I have no doubt Trotz would have offered that. He was certainly trying to acquire Cozens, we know that. But again, it more likely comes down to us simply not having the right assets to entice Buffalo. I’m not sure us making an unsatisfactory offer counts as a “framework” really.

I’m just relaying information that was passed on from someone who has contacts in the organization. Take it however you’d like.

 

[Olderfan]

Trotz doesn’t understand offense. He doesn’t understand forwards. You can’t fall in love with your 4th liners. As a fan you can enjoy having them around but they’re 4th liners for a reason; usually lack of skills. Or enforcers. Or Penalty kill specialists. Or dump and chasers. All are low paid, league minimum types. And we love to cheer these guys on. But Trotz loves them because of all the hustle, under-dog, everyman aura. He calls them players he “trusts”. But one thing that they have in common is they can’t score, won’t score, don’t score.
Ignoring for a moment all the year end roster fillers, on this team there are at least 6 4th liners with a chance that all 6 could appear on next years roster. But they’re “trusted”.
Picking forwards for the roster has always meant D first for Trotz and he’ll fill the roster with them.
Clue- say Forsberg goes down; who’s called up? A “trusted” player. Meaning he plays D, doesn’t score.
I know this is hard; didn’t indicate it wasn’t. But Trotz chooses D and builds a roster of potential 4th liners. But he “trusts” them.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Remind me what we could have traded for Cozens?

I think we know that Trotz was interested. But we also were told repeatedly that Buffalo wanted a young already-established player back in any deal, not any futures or draft picks. That seems to have been borne out by the trade for Norris. I'm assuming that trade pursuit went nowhere because we simply didn't have the right assets to make it happen. We had all old guys, tweeners, or youngsters who were getting pressboxed into oblivion.

I guess we can blame Trotz for putting us in the state where we had nothing to offer. We probably can't blame him for simply not being interested in Cozens, however.

The deal was roughly ZLH/svechkov, Novak and a 3rd round pick for Cozens. I have this on very good authority and have similarly heard they didn't want to include Novak at the time.

Which I maintain was probably a good deal for us.